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Police State - Fullerton Police Beat Man To Death

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Mountainman, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Fullerton police beating of homeless man is under investigation

    Kelly Thomas, 37, a schizophrenic, died five days after a run-in with Fullerton officers. The FBI, district attorney, Police Department and horrified civilian witnesses want answers.

    August 02, 2011|By Kate Mather and Abby Sewell, Los Angeles Times
    As they boarded an Orange County transit bus the night of July 5, passengers recounted a disturbing story in graphic detail: A homeless man near the bus station was under attack by police officers.
    "The cops are kicking this poor guy over there, all these cops," one woman told the bus driver in a conversation captured on a grainy bus surveillance tape. "He's almost halfway dead," another passenger told the driver. "They killed him."

    Exactly what happened that night has become the subject of anger and much speculation in the community.
    Officers responding to reports of an attempted car break-in near the station confronted Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old schizophrenic homeless man who had become a fixture in downtown Fullerton.

    Six officers fought with Thomas and Tasered him several times, according to witness accounts. He emerged severely beaten and in a coma. A photo taken of him at the hospital shows his face grotesquely swollen and covered with bruises and cuts. He died five days later after being removed from life support.

    Now, both the FBI and the Orange County district attorney's office are investigating, and the case has generated an emotional response from residents of the college town, who are demanding answers from the Police Department.

    Suspicions about the incident have been heightened by two videos on which witnesses reacted to the police action. In one video taken by a bystander, Thomas can be heard screaming "Dad! Dad! Dad!" over the clicking sounds of the Taser.

    "They've Tased him five times already," a woman can be heard saying on the video. "That's enough!"
    "They're freaking ruthless," another man says, adding moments later: "I don't know why they don't just put cuffs on him and call it a night, instead of hitting him."

    Officials said there are other videos that have not been released, including some that might more directly capture what the officers did. Some Fullerton council members are demanding that those videos be released to the public, but the district attorney's office has declined, citing fears of tainting potential witness testimony.

    "It's very important that if there is a trial, that the witnesses can testify what they saw as a witness, not what they saw on television or in the media," said Susan Kang Schroeder, the district attorney's chief of staff.

    City Council members said they've fielded hundreds of calls and emails about the incident, some from people who live far away. On Saturday, 250 protesters stood outside the Fullerton Police Department, wearing T-shirts bearing Thomas' name and holding signs condemning the police.

    "There seems to be a general sense of outrage and fear," said Councilman Bruce Whitaker, who called for all the videos to be released and all the officers involved to be placed on leave.

    Police spokesman Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said two officers approached Thomas at the depot after receiving a report of someone trying to break into cars parked there. Thomas tried to run from the officers, who found items in his backpack that didn't belong to him, Goodrich said, and the officers called for backup when Thomas resisted. The scene escalated as witnesses watched.

    One eyewitness, Mark Turgeon, 42, who is also homeless, said he arrived at the scene to see Thomas face down on the sidewalk with one officer on top of him and another hitting him on the back of the head with a flashlight. More officers arrived and Tasered him multiple times, then hogtied him, he said. Turgeon also described seeing officers slamming Thomas' face into the concrete after he was tied.
    "They just beat and Tasered him until he stopped moving," Turgeon said.

    An initial autopsy did not determine cause of death, and coroner's officials are waiting for additional test results.

    The Fullerton Police Department has said it's fully cooperating with investigators and is conducting an internal investigation. One of the officers involved was placed on administrative leave a few days after the incident. The remaining five were later reassigned to non-patrol duty, but late Tuesday they too were placed on administrative leave. The department has not released the names of the officers, although several names have circulated on local blogs.

    Initially, police reported that two officers had suffered broken bones but later retracted the statement. Police are releasing few details about either the incident or the follow-up.

    "I'm asking people, as hard as it is, to be patient and wait until the investigation is completed," Goodrich said.
    Fullerton Mayor F. Richard Jones and other city officials are urging the public to avoid a rush to judgment.
    "It's been nothing but spin and people screaming. It's almost like a lynch mob.... It's been fostered by people who don't know all the facts," he said.
    But other officials said the case cries out for greater scrutiny.

    ‪PSU: Kelly Thomas beaten to death in Fullerton, CA‬‏ - YouTube
  2. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    That is sad and totally uncalled for six on one that shouldn't have happen. I've made hundreds of arrests and by myself we are a rual county and it's one Deputy one call. I have had to fight my way into a place and then fight my way out and when a man has had enough I stop place him into custody get him med help if needed and treat him like a human. It takes a poor excuse of an officer to beat a man like that along with five others. All I ask is for everyone to please believe me when I say we all are not like those. They don't even deserve the honor to be call officer's.
  3. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    i will never understand why they get paid leave
    if i beat my boss or a fellow employee up they wouldnt give me a paid vacation
  4. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Thats where its a problem for towns, cities and counties these guy' are protected by Civil Service or up nort Police Unions. Which don't get me wrong I'm a strong supporter of the Civil Service or police Unions they protect good officer's who are being punished or having pressure put on them for doing their job. It protects them from the good ol boy circle that happens in these small town and county politics. But over the years it has been twisted to protect these POS it gives them certain right that they didn't give the homless man.
  5. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Never could understand that either. Suspend them without pay until they are either fired and/or charged or cleared, should not take to long to figure out. If cleared they get back pay and keep their job. If guilty of a crime only the max penalty since they are suppose to be holier that thou defenders of the law.
  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I don't think this incident is evidence

    of a police state...that would require systematic abuse of civil rights of the broader population, enabled, sanctioned and supported by the "leadership" of all levels of government and law enforcement bureauocracy. This is more a case of incompetence, criminality, and perhaps inadequate training, supervision, and policies relating to the treatment of people suffering from intellectual and mental impairment.

    Let justice take its course...just hope that your police department works better than the department featured in the web article. Poor comfort for the guy who evidently died unnecessarily.
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Possible evidence of mob psychology at work? Small mob, but ----
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Bad people doing bad things or ordinary people just like us?

    Indeed....small group dynamics can act as a disinhibitor when it comes to overcoming societal inhibitions against cruel and unusual punishment / abuse. The soldiers at Abu Grab and other places...were not intrinsically monsters...in many instances they were quite unextraordinary people, but when operating in a group they could bdo the most awful things without even wondering that what they were doing were illegal, unethical and immoral. This dynamic is explained in disturbing detail in Lt Col Dave Grossman's book..."On Killing - The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". On Killing Review I have a copy of this book...and it is startling.

    The Milgram and Stanford Prison Experiments demonstrate the capacity for humans to be extremely inhumane, particularly where authority and power are used to exert control and domination of others.


    Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ‪Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment 2009 1/3‬‏ - YouTube

    Stanford Prison Experiment

    ‪Philip Zimbardo: Why ordinary people do evil ... or do good‬‏ - YouTube

    Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ‪Stanford Prison Experiment (Documentary)‬‏ - YouTube

    Another interesting commentator on the phenomenon is Hannah Arendt, outlined in her book "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil" though it should be noted that Arendt has her critics.

    Eichmann in Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hannah Arendt and the Banality of Evil | Radio Open Source with Christopher Lydon

    The Banality of Evil, Part II | Radio Open Source with Christopher Lydon

    VisuTrac likes this.
  9. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    To be fair, the police are deemed innocent until proven guilty-no matter what the evidence says. IMO, in cases like this they should be suspended w/o pay. If innocent then pay them back time-if guilty then blister them just like another criminal.
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  10. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    I did not mean to say we were in a police state, but continually getting closer to one. Just look at all the incidents like this that are happening including SWAT style raids for everything including raw milk and cheese manufactures. Give me a F'in break, why is that needed except to be dramatic and to convince a sheeple jury how evil these people are. If we were in an actual police state I would not be sitting here typing, but would be out sniping or planning my next sniping op.
    Cephus and Alpha Dog like this.
  11. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Alot of it is Officer's for years has never had anyone they had to answer to and the I've got a badge (I'm God) complex sets in. Most of the time you see it happen with boots that are fresh out of the academy until they get their cherry popped around 3am. When they run in a bar fight and some Ol farm boy shows him that he's not the only dog that came off the porch that night. Now the public is starting to see whats happening and how that some of their officer are as bad as the criminals they suppose to be protecting them from. The good Ol boy days are gone and the people are tired of it they want professional officer's who know's when to go hands on to affect an arrest and when to step it back down.
    CaboWabo5150 and Mountainman like this.
  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Murder is murder. If it's proven, Kali is a DP state. Is stoning a legal method of execution?

    Seriously, An officer is not above the law. He/she needs to up hold the law while obeying it themselves. Sure they have more power than the average citizen but they cannot pick and choose which laws they want to follow.

    If found guilty. Due to 'Mob/Gang' mentality, Their position of power and oath that they had taken; I hope they get the same as they gave the victim.

    The good cops should want these bad cops out of their force. And released to the prison population. But i guess the union will fight tooth and nail to protect their membership and make the rest of the force look bad.

    Just my opinion.
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Sorry Mountainman.....I did not intend my reply to be interpreted as a personal attack on you. Your raising of the issue was an appropriate thing to do in relation to recent events, and has generated a number of thoughtful replies, which in itself justifies the OP.
  14. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Chell, no worries, I did not take it as a personal attack. The "Give me a F'in break" was for the SWAT type raid on the milk and cheese manufactures.
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