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Practical Tips for Resisting the Police State

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Yard Dart, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    In that spirit, here are some practical tips and things to keep in mind the next time you’re compelled to interact with one of America’s Swinest:
    • Never forget: Cops are not your friend; they are not there to “help” you. They are there to bust you. Don’t make it easier for them. Make it harder for them.
    • Never forget that cops are legally permitted to lie to you. Take nothing they tell you at face value. Assume their intentions are malignant.
    • Never forget that a cop is a law enforcer. He is there to enforce the law – any law, every law. It doesn’t matter whether the law is reasonable – or whether you’re a nice guy who doesn’t “deserve” to be hassled. Cops are paid to enforce the law. Period.
    • If stopped, keep your window rolled up almost all the way; leave just enough of a gap to allow you to hand the cop your license/documents. If he “asks” you to roll it down, politely decline. Whenever a cop “asks,” it means you do not have to comply. If they order you to do something, then you must do it. But force them to make it clear you are being ordered to comply – “Is that an order?” – and are only complying under duress and not of your own free will.
    • Be civil – not slavish. A cop is not “sir.” By so addressing him, you feed his inner bully and Rule Number One for dealing effectively with bullies is to not let them think you are a pussy. Simple – and curt – “yes” and “no” answers will get the point across without being directly confrontational.
    • Never make the mistake of responding directly to a cop’s purposefully leading questions – which means, all of his questions. If the cop says, “Do you know why I stopped you?” You tell him, “I suppose you will tell me your reason.” If he says, “Do you know how fast you were going?” You say, “I’m sure you have an opinion.” If he asks whether you’ve been drinking, you remain silent.
    • Never concede anything that could be construed – will be construed in court – as evidence in support of whatever charges are leveled at you.
    • Never admit to anything – ever.
    • Never attempt to excuse anything you may have done. Be silent. Shrug. But do not make excuses. Do not offer an explanation. If you do, you’ve just handed the cop exactly what he wants most – a tacit admission of guilt, which in court will become the basis for establishing your legal guilt.
    • You have to give them your ID and insurance info – if you are operating a motor vehicle on “public” roads. It is “the law.” But you do not – yet – have to tell them where you’re going, where you’ve been – or anything else. If asked, shrug. State – politely, calmly – that you won’t be answering any questions.
    • Ask – repeatedly – whether you are free to go. It’s an excellent stock answer to cop questions.
    • If you have a concealed carry permit, the cop probably already knows – having run your license plate info through the computer in his car. Still, it is good policy to tell him, even if you are not legally obligated to do so (it varies, state to state). This is a psychological tactic which shows you (in the cop’s eyes) to be “cooperative” without your actually having complied with anything that’s against your interests. It may help defuse the situation – important when guns are involved.
    • Never consent to a search. If a cop asks for permission, he is asking permission. It means he hasn’t got legal probable cause – yet. Do not give it to him. Politely tell him, “I do not consent to any searches.” Repeat as necessary. If he searches you/your vehicle anyway, you may have a legal basis for challenging the admissibility of anything found. But if you gave your consent to the search – and not objecting is the same as consenting – then anything found as a result of that search can and will be used against you in court.
    • Record the interaction. Higher courts have consistently ruled it is legal to do so, irrespective of what the cop tells you (see point made above about cops lying). There is no expectation of privacy in public. He can record you – you can record him. Use audio and video. If the cop “asks” you to turn off the equipment, politely decline. Merely state you are recording the interaction in the interests of everyone’s safety
    SHTF Plan - When the Shit Hits The Fan, Don't Say We Didn't Warn You.
    9h0s7, JABECmfg and Mountainman like this.
  2. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Wow. I guess I've been lucky. I've rarely encountered a cop who was not civil, courteous, and professional. By and large, they have been state troopers and county deputies. I haven't had to deal with too many city cops. I've never felt the need to be confrontational or non-cooperative with any cop with whom I've interacted.

    I'm not overly talkative with a cop who stops me, or with anyone else for that matter, but I'm not uncooperative either. I don't think that a cop has ever stopped me without sufficient cause (with one notable exception in England); and I've never had cause to regret my cooperation. I see them as having a job to do, and as long as they remain civil, so will I.

    I don't see cops as necessarily being "the bad guy." Their job isn't an easy one. It isn't going to get any easier with our State and National government(s) trying to dismantle the constitution. The good cops are already walking a tightrope between obeying their orders and following their conscience.

    I don't see their situation as being much different than what many of us experienced in the military. I wasn't always gung-ho about everything that I was ordered to do, or ordered not to do in some cases. But I don't think I was a "bad" person for wearing the uniform and doing the job.

    I know there are some rotten apples wearing a cop's uniform, just like there are some rotten apples wearing the uniform of our armed services; but in general, I have nothing bad to say about cops.
  3. ditch witch

    ditch witch resident bacon hoarder Site Supporter+

    I honestly read that as "hand the cop your license/donuts"
    It's almost 2 AM, so....

    The beauty of smalltownia is knowing which cops to roll the window down for.
  4. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    Were did u get this information from ...

    Are these facts or just an opinion?
  5. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Most of my interaction with cops have been positive as well, but as you said there are some rotten apples. Bottom line is if you are courteous and cooperative things should go by the book. We all understand they have a job to do and are concerned about their saftety first and foremost. I have been around a lot of city cops in personal settings and they have the same internal issues as society in general. A stressfull job, marriage & financial issues, substance abuse and those that think they are boss out on the street. I can attest that a small town city boy in Montana is going to talk to you, operate and handle themselves much different than a cop in Downy or Compton.

    I read the list and thought it would be a beneficial for reminders on how and what you should do if you run into one of the bad actors. I think I also looked at the list as a what to do when the police are commandered by the feds in the early stages of any martial law. Maybe some good pointers to remember during your interaction to not ever give up to much info- especially when they are looking for a reason to dig deeper.
    kellory and tulianr like this.
  6. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

  7. KAS

    KAS Monkey++

    I guarantee the more you cooperate and say yess sir and role your window down the better things will work for you ..

    And i can also tell you from first hand experience if you get pulled over in goldenmeddows LA {and if your are doing 40 in a 45 you will be pulled over} and you dont tell them about you concealed gun permit you will have a face full of asphalt and a ruff night and miss the crew boat!!!
  8. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Sounds like a personal story- was there another crew boat later? :eek:
    tulianr likes this.
  9. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    I just toss a box of dounuts out the window and drive off once they're distracted. [tongue]

    On the serious side I have spoken to my son about keeping interactions with the Po-po to a minimum, not to volunteer any information and never miss an opportunity to keep his mouth shut.
    ditch witch and KAS like this.
  10. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    It was meant to be while you're in court, but it works if you're dealing with LEOs too. My mother's advice repeated many times:
    A: NEVER volunteer ANYTHING.
    B: Keep your answers simple--Yes, No, or I don't know.
    C: Do NOT get emotional.
    KAS likes this.
  11. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have worked in law enforcement and can say that while some of the statements are reasonable, several will also throw red flags to cops. Most every cop I know has the same mantra, 'Im going home at the end of my shift, period.' and in the same senario where cooperation and manners (not talking kissing a$$ just same comon courtousey you would show the cashier at the gas station) would end with a warning and have a nice day can easily turn into kissing pavement in cuffs while your car is searched and you get a stack of tickets.

    There are some a few pieces of crap that get into law enforcement but most get into it because they believe in the old motto 'serve and protect' and want to be there to help stand up for those who cant protect themselves then many become more jaded as they find the 200 witnesses to a kid getting shot all saw nothing and that even the folks they save cheer if they get beat down or killed.

    Just cracking the window is likely to cause you a lot more problems than it ever avoids since at the least its likely to be seen as uncooperative and may be seen as resistance or adding to probable cause and will likely get you removed from the car for a Terry search which you dont get to refuse and requires no burden of proof. Its simply a search of whats in 'grab range' of the occupants for officer safety to clear for weapons. I know that was the first warning sign in a senario I had to go through in the accademy (drawn from a real life senario) that got my partner shot.

    I wouldnt really advise giveing permission to search, as I know a lot of officers with the highest arrests get them by running traffic and asking to search if told no fine if told yes they check and find a lot of folks running drugs, stolen property and felons with guns and such who thought the glovebox was a genious hideing spot, BUT be sure to be polite in declineing, idealy something like 'I wont give permission but will not resist if you do so.' Like I say, the officer has every leagle right under federal law to search the area in your imediate controle for weapons for officer safety.

    In short, 95% of officers will deal with you with about the same attitude you bring to the table though all officers get it drilled into them that if they dont controle the situation their soon to have a widdow at home. They spend most of their day being lied to and dealing with bullies where if the officer shows weakness the folks they deal with are either going to run or attack. Honesty and manners are so refreshing many cops (on minor crap) cut folks who demonstrate them a break. Probably thebest advise though is that the road side is NOT the place to deal with a piece of crap that got ahold of a badge. Get through it politely then if needed deal with his superiors and file a report and if needed take it to a lawyer to get satisfaction. I can tell you for a FACT that most officers despise a bad cop or bully with a badge at a leavel only compairing to pedophiles and the most vile of criminals. The decent cops know the bad ones not only are bad for the people but also make their job far harder and more dangerous and given the ammo are all to ready to help get rid of the bad cops and bullies. Just remember that cops are going to loose a lot of sympathy if you are being a prick to the cop thats a prick and that they DO recognize the need for the officer to maintain tactical advantage at all time or they will be notifying that officers next of kin.

    BTW, they're not doughnuts, they're power rings. lol

    **I know my spelling sucks but got done wrighting and found out they moved or removed spell check since I have been around much. Sorry for the spelling. lol
    Moatengator, tulianr and Yard Dart like this.
  12. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    Officer safety? When did their lives become worth more than any other persons?

    Any LEO attempting to initiate a Terry search because I won't roll down my window all the way isn't doing his job. He's no longer a good guy and has earned none of my cooperation. His/her job isn't to lie to me and/or intimidate/coerce a statement out of me. If the stop is legal there's no need to beat around the bush playing word games. State the purpose of the stop immediately. Any LEO that's ever been less than truthful with a person they come into contact with isn't a good guy anymore either. Despicable behavior to curb despicable behavior only breeds yet more despicable behavior.

    And since LEO accountability to the public is a nonstarter, the system cannot survive in the long run. It will continue it's devolution into a complete police state. The pace appears to be quickening too...
  13. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Pretty sure I didnt say anything about an officer lieing or playing word games or that the officers life is any MORE important than others. The small talk of asking if the person knows why they were stopped or where they are headed/comeing from etc. is basicly just to let the officer get a feel for the situation. It's generaly to see if the person is slurring their speach and confused, confrontational, unreasonably nervous etc. not so much that they care where you have been or headed though, at times they may be trying to eleminate you as a suspect (got description of a car matching your description in a crime a mile back the way you came from etc).

    The reason refuseing to open the window to deal with them is likely to lead to a Terry search is simply that officers know that folks they deal with fall into one of 3 catagories, yes, no and maybe. Folks in the yes catagory are going to comply with any REASONABLE request, folks in No catagory are going to resist and fight or run no matter what the
    officer dose and the maybe folks are basicly going to comply unless/untill they see a chance to run or attack. Refuseing to open the window and deal with them is going to tell the officer you are either a no or a maybe and in either case they are going to go on alert to be sure and seperate you from any weapons while they have to deal with you and make them raise their level of controle a notch to keep the maybe from being as likely to become a no. The Terry search basicly comes into play when you start making the officer have concerns for his safetey. Maintaining officer safety IS a part of their duty and the Terry search is a lawful means of doing that, so if it comes to a point that they choose to conduct a Terry search then refusal, in terms of resistance or trying to stop it (can still let it be known they dont have permission but that you will not resist) means that you then are raising lack of cooperation to the level of interfearing with an officer in the lawful preformance of his duty and means you are likely to be arrested which in most jurisdictions comes with 'search incident to arrest' which includes a full strip search as part of booking and a complete search and inventorying of the vehicle and contents rather than just a quick search of the area you had controle of for weapons. These are then totaly leagle searches per the SCOTUS and things found from them are admissable. The Terry search on the other hand is a lot more limited aand other than weapons can be a lot more shakey as far as admisability since they arent allowed to search places a weapon wouldnt fit for a Terry search and cant search areas you couldnt readily access from your position in the car (or given enviroment withing 'lungeing distance').

    Youre welcome of coarse to do as you choose, Im simply offering information from the other side of the senario and what the some of the leagle issues are to let folks make a more informed decission in how to handle things. Personaly I tend to figure that NOT makeing a person with a gun (badge or no) nervous or aggitating them unnessicarily is just a real basic survival skill, particularly if you believe they are an immoral evil individual along with not trying to make adversairies unnesicarily if they are deemed to NOT be immoral or evil. Gotta figure if the juice is gonna be worth the squeeze. Contempt of cop isnt a crime and the line can be skated without crossing it but I can guarantee its not going to help your situation or be anything new to the cop, may annoy them if its preventing them from getting a badguy off the street, like localy last week when 5 were shot and 2 killed in a teen club with about 200 kids present and of coarse there were no witnesses, but it wont surprise them or be anything new when those same folks refuse to anwser any questions then complain that the cops dont do anything about the bad guys.
    oldawg and tulianr like this.
  14. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    BTW Dont get me wrong, Im not saying every cop is a great guy I would want to hang out with or even that every cop is a good cop. Im also not saying to take crap and do nothing. Im just saying that you will mostly get your attitude mirrored back by cops and that the road side isnt the smart place to try to deal with the bad cops, go to their chain of command and keep going up the chain untill you get satisfaction which will be more likely by far if you kkeep things civil at road side.
    oldawg, tulianr and Yard Dart like this.
  15. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I think one problem with the 'PR' of LEOs is that generally speaking based on my experience, they don't get to really interact with their community in a positive way. They get called when there are bad situations and so the citizens and LEOs are not responding in their everyday personalities. It is confrontational on some level.
  16. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Maybe they could stand on the corner with a boot looking for donations like the firefighters do- everyone thinks they are great guys/gals.
  17. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Thats very true and one reason many cops tend to become jaded. They spend most of their day dealing with the worst society has to offer, doing what they can to TRY to help people who often as not dont want to help anyone to help them then being cussed, despised, threatened, attacked and vilified and in many/most cases they are required to live in the jurisdiction they work in and if they go shopping they run into the thieves and dealers and such they arrested at work while their families are there or if they go out to dinner with their wife and are seen haveing a glass of wine they are reported to their superiors as drunks. Even in the accademy a group of the students went for a beer to hang out after calss one day, noone had more than 1 drink and no one was loud but by the next morning the dean of the accademy had been told that a bunch of his 'drunk' students were at the bar. Even the best and friendliest of cops going to social gatherings often tend to get stuck in the corner with the IRS agents and mortitians.

    Like I say there are some pricks that get badges and really suck (it also for some reason seems like their backup is usualy slower to arrive) but I have also seen plenty of officers stop to change a tire for someone, buy a hungry man some lunch, buy a homeless guy some shoes on one occasion even an officer took his lunch break to fix an old womans garage door opener that had broken for her or in any number of other way help out well beyond the job description. Most get into the line of work to help others and in fact many also work or have worked on ambulances and as fire fighters as well as military. A lot to become more crotchety though between what they see, how they are reviled and especialy with the politics involved when certain groups, individuals or areas get preference due to political issues, money or pull.
    Yard Dart likes this.
  18. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    [winkthumb] MM Spent a lot of house parties with city and county. The only time they could let their hair down with out the calls you just mentioned. It is a hard job, mentally, physically and psycholigically. I understand your point of view....

    My point of the thread is more in the context I previously mentioned- to know how to react in the possibilty of a declared martial law or gov take over of local police- and how to mitigate them finding more info than you want them to, allowing for a deeper search to find a reason to detain you or investigate further. Yes I know the list is fallible but it is a basis for the conversation and no more or less. I for one respect the job of the police force- but know that in certain times they will be a potential threat when rolled up on at a checkpoint, once we are to be controlled as a society.
  19. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I get you, I wasnt trying to say that the whole list was a bad idea and certainly not in all senarios, just wanted to toss some info out on the point or two I saw that in 'normal' conditions could wind up turning an otherwise minor annoyance into a potentialy very bad situation.

    Keeping anwsers to questions short and to the point without volunteering a bunch of extra info, particularly unless as a witness to a crime you dont like to see happen (granny beat down, robbery, kids killed,etc.), is smart. Politely declineing permission for a search without trying to force the issue at the scene (if its a bad search they did you a favor since anything they find and anything that leads to gets tossed, usualy taking the whole case with it) is smart. Just wanted to try to clarify a bit so folks didnt try to take it differently and ruin their own day thinking it would work well. As far as the recording, most cops I know including when I worked it, are glad to haveas muccch recording as possible and will use the dash cam and mike with it if possible since most look at it as a means avoiding any debate about how things actualy went down. Not to say they wont have a problem with an idiot standing up with a vidio camera begging for a stray round and makeing them save the idiot if someone starts shootingor some such. In fact Im even budgeting for a dash cam for my work car in the private side where I work now just for that reason, if anything happens it removes debate about how it was handled, what happened and why. Just like most things in life, civility and common sense goes a long ways. [cheers]
    tulianr and Yard Dart like this.
  20. Cwm1150

    Cwm1150 Monkey+

    Soverign citizen by chance?
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