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Proper way to deal with muzzies

Discussion in 'Politics' started by -06, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    You have got to love this guy--why is he not running for prez?

    Dealing With Muslims

    Two Black Americans were elected to congress this cycle, and both are Republican. Col. West is from southern Florida. He won in a walk.

    This new Congressman was an extremely popular commander in Iraq. He was forced to retire because during an intense combat action a few of his men were captured. At the same time his men captured one of the guys who were with the Iraqis who captured his men.

    Knowing that time was crucial and his interrogators were not getting anywhere with the prisoner, Col. West took matters into his own hands. He burst into the room and demanded thru an interpreter that the prisoner tell him where his men were being taken. The prisoner refused so Col. West took out his pistol and placed it into the prisoner's crotch and fired. Then the Col. told the prisoner that the next shot would not miss. So the prisoner said he would show where the American service members were being taken. The Americans were rescued. Someone filed a report on incorrect handling of prisoners. Col. West was forced to retire. Col. West was just elected in November 2010 to Congress from Florida. During the elections he was part of a panel on how to handle or how to relate to Muslims. You will see his answer here explaining in just over a minute the truth about Islam. Please watch and if you agree, please forward it to your friends; if you disagree, you're an idiot. Hit the delete button.
    http://secure.afa.net/afa/activism/takeaction.asp?id=384 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />
    STANGF150, beast and Sapper John like this.
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    When he goes national or moves to PA, he'll get my vote.
  3. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Men who respond to situations as he did are a dieing breed done what needed to be done to save his men no matter what. The one or one's who filed the complaint ( Bleeding Heart Tree Hugger's) should have been forced out not him. I liked how straight forward he was about the muslims and his thought's.
    Cephus, STANGF150 and beast like this.
  4. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I would have wrapped him in bacon and saved a bullet.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Col. West would get my vote in any election.... and I would be very proud to call him a friend..... He would be welcome at my fire, ANYTIME......
    Cephus and Sapper John like this.
  6. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    so lets send him letters and tell him we will support him in a run for pres
  7. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I won't win any friends on this forum with this post, but I'll still have my self-respect. Something I wouldn't have if I sat back and said nothing.

    I was a Middle Eastern Intelligence Specialist for over twenty years. I speak Arabic, I have traveled extensively throughout the Middle East, and I HAVE read the Koran, several times; something that most detractors of Islam have not. I count many Muslims among my friends, and I find them as honorable as any of my Christian friends.

    It is easy to point at someone with differing views, or a different skin color, or a different country of origin, or different religious beliefs, and label them the enemy. It makes it so much easier to act inhumanely toward them if we de-humanize them with a derogatory label such as Limey, or Frog, or Dago, or Hun, or Squint-eye, or wet-back, or Rag-head, or "Muzzie."

    It's a lot harder to actually try to understand the conflict between peoples, and to look in the mirror and ask if part of the problem doesn't actually reside with us. It's always easier to see that splinter in the eye of another.

    Yes, the Koran has some hateful sentiments in it; but anyone who thinks that the Muslims have the corner on hate needs to crack open that old family bible.

    In Deut 20:16, the Judea-Christian God tells his chosen, the Israelites, "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes." In Numbers 31:18-40, God orders 32,000 female virgins to be taken as war plunder from the Midianites. Half of these young girls were given to the soldiers for their pleasure, and half were given to the Israelite civilians as slaves, and 32 of them were to be saved for God (the priests accepted in his stead). In 1 Samuel 15:3, God orders the Israelites to “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” In today‘s world, that would earn God an indictment before the International Criminal Court. I won't go on, but trust me that there are dozens more charming sections of the Judea-Christian bible or, rather than trust me, go read the book yourself.

    Our nation is not under threat from Islam. Our nation is under threat from hatred, ignorance, and extremism. I am much more afraid of Christian extremists here in this country than I am of Muslim extremists overseas. Religion isn't the problem, either Christianity or Islam. Ignorance and hatred is the problem.

    Just my seventy-two virgin cents worth.
  8. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    Nice post, tulian. Gives you something to think about.
  9. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Crafty, you've thrown me. I'm was expecting nothing but hate-mail. Maybe I won't have to change my name and move to another state after all. foosed
    BTPost likes this.
  10. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Yeah.. you're right. Not winning any points here.. I'm not a bible scholar nor a scholar of the Koran, but I have read enough of both where people lay claim to wanton violence to go and read the contexts.. nearly 100% of the time the Koran just says "go kill them because they are not Muslim".. where the bible has more verses where revenge is taken because people were killed without reason as a means to an end.. so lets put your 15:3 into context for example:

    Puts a different context to it, aye? Context is very, very important; I'm sure you agree.

    I find the political system called Islam to be revolting, period. Do tell me when the last time you've seen THOUSANDS of people cheering for the death of Israel on TV who were of christian faith. A little compare and contrast if you will. In contrast see Christians protecting muslims in Egypt:
    Egypt protests: Christians join hands to protect Muslims as they pray during Cairo protests | Mail Online

    It's a system of complete and total indoctrination of hate. I find that muslims that were born and raised muslim in the USA are nothing like the "muslim brotherhood" types of followers. Why? well, because of our little friend called context.

    So lets bring "Muzzie" into context. When people use the term "Muzzie" it's context is required to be bound to radical followers of Islam. The idiots, the haters, the trash. When do people use derogatory terms to reflect upon people that are not filled with hate or malice? mostly never.. so I find using derogatory terms must be applied to those people whom you find vile.

    I could go on, but I'm tired.. it's nearly impossible to illustrate the fine line in a simple post, but there is a fine line between that level of trust you might have for someone and the disdain you might have for someone in the same life "context" when you have to constantly balance between the good ones and the bad ones where the "bad apples" are a majority.

    Quite frankly, I don't trust them.. I can't trust them. I haven't seen enough outcry from their community to call for a stop to the attacks upon innocent people. I haven't seen any concerns on sensitivity being expressed, especially with things like the ground zero mosque; which I find extremely distasteful.. not outside of the rights (as far as legalities) to do so... but definitely bad form. It's really a slap in the face without concern and they either don't see that or don't freaking care.. and I'm leaning towards "don't care".

    Muslims need to take it upon themselves to cut the ****. The good ones, need get to up in the faces of the bad ones and tell them to stop the bullcrap. I haven't seen any of that yet.

    That being said, I'm also of the opinion that our gov't has raised Islam to a level of "Boogie-man" status. While I abhor the political system called Islam, I don't find them to be boogie-men, just unbelievably misguided thanks to the context in which they are raised in Islamic countries(to hate those who are not muslim). I'm more concerned about China at the moment personally.. I think our government found a people to scapegoat because scapegoating commies has lost it's effectiveness (especially since they are in office at the moment).

    I also think the wars are ********. In short, I believe they were wars for our currency reserve status. But I won't get into that.

    P.S. Rachel Maddow is a dumb ****.. holy cow...
    STANGF150 and Hispeedal2 like this.
  11. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I like your post Tulianr and agree with it mostly. I too have lived and worked in the Middle East for the better part of the last 20 years. The way the "Muzzie" boogie man is portrayed in American media is so far from the reality that it is sickening. I have many good loyal Muslim friends and have never been treated with anything but respect and kindness in the ME countries that I have lived in.

    It was very eye opening to see the propaganda that exists, on both sides. When I first came here I had heard that Muslims were taught to hate anyone not Muslim. That Christians were hunted down and imprisoned, that they were stoning women and chopping body parts off in the streets. Some small grains of truth.

    Then I heard once I started living here that the only reason Christians didn't accept Islam was because the priests kept them drunk. That they were forced to drink alcohol at church and all American women were whores and slept with any man that came around. Again, a small grain of truth to some of that. But you see the reasoning. The things that make us different are blown out of proportion and misunderstood and makes for some very warped views of each other.

    UGRev says that;
    " Quite frankly, I don't trust them.. I can't trust them. I haven't seen enough outcry from their community to call for a stop to the attacks upon innocent people. I haven't seen any concerns on sensitivity being expressed, especially with things like the ground zero mosque; which I find extremely distasteful.. not outside of the rights (as far as legalities) to do so... but definitely bad form. It's really a slap in the face without concern and they either don't see that or don't freaking care.. and I'm leaning towards "don't care"."

    You won't hear of those things either as long as you get your world view from the biased and propagandized American media. They have found a new boogie man and they play it up. It sells. The local papers here were full of letters to the editors about the ground zero mosque. And I never read one single one that was in favor of it. Just the opposite, every one I have talked to, every letter I read, every person I have seen on television was outraged and condemning it and had nothing good to say about the people promoting it. They were outraged that they would be so insensitive and let their misguided actions cast all muslims in a bad light.
    I have had Muslims come up to me and on the verge of tears apologize, profusely for what their country men and fellow muslims did to the US on 9/11. They were appalled and ashamed.

    And I agree too that most people who condemn the Koran as a book of hate have never taken the time to read it, in context and to try and understand it. They take verses that mention retribution and killing of enemies and quote it out of context to illustrate how it teaches to "Kill any who aren't Muslim".

    Which brings me to my last point. You do the same disservice with the quotes you cite from the Bible.
    In numbers God does not "order 32,000 virgins to be taken as war plunder". That is a misrepresentation of the verses. The Isrealite soldiers disobeyed and spared the women and children and livestock and brought them back to their camp. A plague descended on them and to stave it off they were ordered to kill all the women and children and to purify themselves and the livestock they had taken. The virgins were to be seperated and not killed. It is forbidden to this day to kill a virgin in Middle Eastern cultures, as it was then. The virgins were not being sorted out for debauchery but to save their lives. They were given to soldiers,civilians and priests to live as servants and slaves under a system that had very strict and amenable laws regarding the treatment of them.

    As to the commands to kill every living thing in the cities that they conquered, they routinely disobeyed that command and because of that we have today the ancestors of those people. The Jordanians, Syrians, to some degree the Saudis and most glaringly the Palestinians.
    How many thousands of lost lives, on both sides, how much suffering, how much death and destruction would have been avoided if those ancient Israelites had of obeyed Gods commands?

    tulianr likes this.
  12. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Which is why I pay attention to those media outlets to stay aware of the propaganda, but I do not rely on them to be accurate about "anything" or non-biased "anything".. It's more like "know thy enemy" and find truth in other places.
  13. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I need to clarify that I am speaking about people in general and the lumping of them together in some kind of cookie cutter mold.

    There are radical misguided and psychopathic pricks who happen to be Muslim and use their warped view of religion to justify their own insanity. But there are also the same type of anti social warped psychos who happen to be Christian, or claim to be, or Jewish.

    But there is also the vast majority of those groups who don't agree with, don't promote, and don't condone the actions of those few.

    The link Rev has of the Christians protecting the Muslims in Tahrir square while they pray is an example but for contrast there is also the video of the Muslims returning the favor during mass. Or the one of Muslims gathering together to form human chains around Christian churches in Alexandria to protect them from the radicals who had bombed one. And the local mosques that donated the money to rebuild the bombed out one.

    The rest of the story never seems to get told. The PTB need a boogieman. In yesteryears it was the evil commies, then right wing radical Klansmen, then militias, now today it is the fanatical muzzies.
  14. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Well spoken Tulinar and UGRev.

    Both posted good points to think about. I agree with both of you.

    The average Mussie isn't the issue. Extremist islam is the issue. Unfortunately, the wild fire spread of that hate and the lone wolf approach now taken by a dysfunctional AQ ensures this will be a problem for years to come. Its encroaching on the West. I think that is what scares Americans. I think it should scare Americans. When Sharia courts start taking the place of the legal court systems. Example from the NY Times:
    New York Times: America Should Embrace Sharia Law at Pat Dollard
    Just take a look at how its shoved down people's throats:
    Shariah (Islamic Law) News - The New York Times
    chelloveck likes this.
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Context matters, as pointed out. Bear in mind that Col West takes issue with the radical political system, not necessarily the belief system that (evidently) spawned it. I don't think he's advocating "Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" which itself is a pretty radical approach to a diffuse problem. Nor do I think there is a religion on the planet that hasn't killed because of intolerance or it's belief in superiority.

    One more good reason to maintain a secular political body, separation of church and state. Regardless of the Founding Father's Christianity, the "one Nation, under God" doesn't specify who's God; it could as well be one of the Hindu pantheon. (I note that "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s, not in the original.)
    tulianr likes this.
  16. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    As do I.. but I do feel that the contempt displayed in the political system for anyone non-muslim is unacceptable. Therefore, I must address the individual.. not the group.
  17. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Minuteman, I absolutely agree with you, and that is my point. I did take those "divine commands" out of context, just as "divine commands" in the Koran are being taken out of context by non-Muslims, and by some Muslim crazies. The ancient Israelites did not always follow the commandments given to them and, thankfully, neither do all Muslims of today. My point is that we don't need to critically dissect the religion of another, unless we are equally willing to critically dissect our own religion. When you start grabbing verses and ignore the literary and historical context, all religions can be made to look ugly, or menacing, or ridiculous.

    I think it's time we gave some perspective to all religions, and accepted the fact that we are all on this globe together, like it or not, and we are going to have to learn to live together. Swimming around in a cesspool of ignorance, shaking our fists at one another, surely cannot be God's plan for mankind. If it is, stop the ride. I want off.
    Minuteman and Hispeedal2 like this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have been reading all the previous posts in this thread, and find a lot of wisdom here, So, I thought I would add the following, that I wrote for my "About Me" blog, that explains my policy in dealing with Religion.

  19. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    You're right, we do need to keep a good perspective.. which video shall I use here that has a muslim cleric calling for the death of all of isreal and christians because they are infidels. In contrast, I can't find one by any prominent Christian clergy calling for the same against Islam. I'm not defending Christianity.. just trying to contrast and compare. I could have said Taoist for instance. I just don't see it coming from any other religion but Islam. So yes... lets keep perspective..please.
  20. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Well, I will say it because many here seemingly are trying to kiss a-- and make friendly. I have not heard of us bombing their gathering places, killing innocents, gassing their subways, bombing our soldiers all over the world, cutting heads off helpless captives on TV, and on and on and on I could go. You can call them friends if you like, you can trust them all you like, and you can say nice things about them all you like but I do not have to nor am I going to. I can say nice things about a coiled rattler but I know better than to trust it not to strike. Sure there are wonderful people of the muslim faith and I even know some but when it comes down to the truth of do I trust them with my life--No. Am I going to stop calling them muzzies--when they stop killing, murdering, calling for Jihads, and pushing for world domination I might consider it. Until then they are my enemies. My oldest is headed back to that shithole country for the third time. When we stop getting body bags from there and they become a productive part of the world instead of the biggest Heroin producing country I may change my mind. Expect I will be dead and my grand children before that will happen. If they want common peoples respect then let them act respectable. If they want to be treated decently then let them rise up and throw the rabble rousing inmans out of their mosques. Our preachers do not call for murdering whole countries or anyone for that matter. If our preacher said something like that we would have him tossed out on his ear before he finished his sentence. Respect them--when they earn it. Till then they get called muzzies because I cannot say what I really want to. Hate them, no--but I sure hate what their leaders allow. Alright-let it rip.
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