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Flu Protecting Your Family From an Influenza Pandemic

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by melbo, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Well...good luck! I'll stick to mother nature or the closest next thing...no pharma for me!
    guidoLaMoto- likes this.
  2. craneje

    craneje Monkey+

    Of all the medical discoveries ever made, vaccination has probably saved more lives than any other. Small pox decimated (in the classical sense) the native peoples of America. Small pox has been wiped out, not by treatment, but by prevention. Polio used to cripple thousands every year, now its virtually gone. There are vaccines for anthrax and plague. Influenza killed tens of thousands in the early 1900s, and, post SHTF could do it again. I'll take the flu shots.
    chelloveck likes this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Of all the discoveries ever made, governments and corporations, if left unchecked will always tend to become oppressive and tyrannical. If left untreated, the people who once enjoyed the many freedoms and liberties established by their forefathers (like the right to live) can be easily extinguished.

    This is from the 1970's. Most probably don't remember because they are too young, but the older, wiser folk remember well. Oh how easy it is to control the slaves...
    YouTube - ‪1970's Swine Flu Propaganda‬‏

    Here's the rundown given by Ron Paul on the very same 1976 swine flu scare:
    YouTube - ‪Congressman Paul on the Recent Swine Flu Scare‬‏

    Here, 60 Minutes covers the swine flu from 1976, and it's an real eye-opener:
    YouTube - ‪The swine flu fraud of 1976, on 60 Minutes‬‏

    I am not going to tell you what to do. I am a firm believer in Darwin's theories. If the people want to kill themselves, who am I to argue? Survival of the fittest, I say...as long as it's still an opt-out policy.
  4. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    RE: the swine flu propaganda above

    This is classic CDC. Here's why: almost everyone there has a Master's of Public Health...even the MDs go back to school to get one. During this schooling, you are brainwashed into the "public health" way of controlling disease, which is very socialistic. For lack of better words: inoculating as many people as possible is preferred over just those with risk factors because of the "herd immunity effect." The disease won't be able to get passed around if everybody is immune. So, the few people who aren't inoculated won't catch it either. Think of a herd of buffalo protecting the weak/young.

    Nowhere does "side-effects" come into the discussion. The goal is total inoculation, those that get ill are just risks they are willing to live with because in the big picture, more will die/get ill without the inoculation. It is perfectly logical to them...those that die are small numbers (not people) and an acceptable risk. I call these people "true believers." If your goal is in the best interest of public health, then the means by which the goal is attained is not so important.

    Here's a perfect example: during the discussion about when to give the vaccination for hepatitis b (whether at birth or at a later time...1 year +), the winning argument was that "Well, you have the infant already there at the hospital--a captive audience, if you say "mandatory vaccination for HBV at birth," your coverage will be a lot higher than if you allow them to leave and hope they come back later."

    Now keep in mind, you can force vaccination for XYZ through entry into school. So, you could definitely make sure someone is immunized for it before entry into kindergarten, when the body's systems are more robust. Nah...not good enough. Also keep in mind that the risk factors for hepatitis B are SEX and intravenous drug-use (blood-to-blood transmission). I don't know about you, but most kids < 2yrs just don't have these risk factors.

    Now for the kicker: there has been no conclusive proof that if you are vaccinated for HBV at birth that the vaccine will be protect you if you are exposed as an adult. All the time there are reports of people getting hep B who were vaccinated against it.

    So, without bringing in any discussion of autism--just keep that out, what you have is a group of people making a decision based on the ideology of the greater good, rather than the health of the individual (probably violates the Hippocratic Oath). They would achieve higher vaccination rates if the CDC recommended "vaccination at birth" rather than at two years of age. So, when the American Academy of Pediatrics sees this recommendation, of course they go along with it. Now, even if you opt-out at birth, if you send your child to day-care at 8 weeks, they have to be current on their recommended vaccinations or they can't get in. They've got you over a barrel and our kids are paying the price.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    If you, and your Lady live on ONE Income, then you will not be putting your under 2 year olds in "Daycare" and that solves your problem. The Barrel that you are over, is of your own making, by choosing to have a lifestyle that REQUIRES more than a single income. This is ALL about "Choices" and how you and yours, make them. If you Homeschool your 5+ year olds, again, no vaccinations required, to enter Public School. Again, Problem Solved. Personal and Family Choices are the issue here. some are easy and some are hard, but YOU, as a Sentient Individual, get to make those choices, for yourself and your Family. You CHOOSE, not some Government, You, and yours..... ..... YMMV.....
    john316 and beast like this.
  6. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    And if you're a widower or single parent for a reason you have no control over? Some people's choice is work or go on welfare.

    This isn't about choice, it's about govt. coercion to accomplish an agenda.

    But thanks for the lecture.......
    john316, Brokor and beast like this.
  7. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    ibuprofen eats up your kidneys, if you dont know already

    best things i know of for viral dffense:
    1) avoid crowds, cities, schools, hospitals, stores are all germ holes
    2) stop protecting yourself from the little everyday germs, these guys help build your immune system and make it stronger
    3) dont take any meds unless there is no other course to follow, our systems do build immunity to drugs, then they dont work when we need them
    4) spend more time outdoors exercising and suckin up good fresh air and sunshine
    5) look for herbal and natural meds inplace of patent drugs, like knotweed tea for the runs, it works great and you can get it anywhere, aspirin from willow bark too
    6) try to stay isolated as much as possible when theres an outbreak, you dont know where your best friend has been or who sneezed on him

    yes i get flu bugs, sometimes im actually sick a few days, but its never anything serious, my body and immune system are pretty tough and i keep them that way
    john316, arleigh and BTPost like this.
  8. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    When you live as far out as I do, the only time you get sick, is when outsiders transport the NEW bugs into the neighborhood. I only get sick in the Spring when the FlatLanders show up, bring all the new strains of bugs with them. I have learned to wash my hands a LOT MORE, in the Spring, and keep folks at distance, until I build up an immune response to the new bugs. Vacations to the FlatLands just mean that I will get a Head Cold, for the first week and then be recovering for the second week. After that I usually get by just fine. If you have children,(little Plague Carriers) in Public Schools, they bring home, every local bug, that is going around. It is just the way things are, and what modern society brings, with it. ..... YMMV.....
    john316 likes this.
  9. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace

    From a worker standpoint - avoidance is EVERYTHING - I live in alcohol foam - kids are germ factories but their parents are just as bad....

    In a plague situation - isolation is the only sure way to avoid it

    EVERY time I took care of a kid in the ER that was sick I usually became ill...they NEVER wash their hands....
    john316, chelloveck and dragonfly like this.
  10. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    It is my experience that most problems internally and externally are bacteria related, in which case colloidal silver has proven to be effective in most every thing ever tried. ( Bacteria cannot become immune.)
    True if you abuse it there are consequences, however that is true of every thing. More critically penicillin.
    I have made my own for years and even use it on my animals ,even for distemper quite successfully.
    Taken internally one must reintroduce probiotics later, to replace those in the digestive system that get neutralized, using colloidal silver.
    Yogurt or other probiotics work just fine for that.
    I use silver on injuries of all sorts, in place of every other preparation made, and have yet to be disappointed.
    I have made my own for almost 30 years and it's simple.
  11. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Colloidal Silver is good for bacteria. I haven't turned blue yet and cheap Vitamin C in 1000% of RDA is a good deterrent as well. Emergen C is a great product to take daily when you are around alot of other people.

    Comes in all flavors

    I was interested in the original post about how to make ORs and in how to give charity at a distance.

    One of the bigger movements now days is called 'Urban Farming' translation, grow your own garden and join like minded people. I know the guy in phoenix who runs one of these and he is an urban planner and his whole focus is, when the supply trucks stop, how do we feed all the people locally. '

    Its probably an unrealistic goal but at least he is community focused and is trying something.

    Back on topic
    This post was about staying healthy and treating fevers or not. I'm not a doctor and one of the concerns about high fever, especial in children is brain damage. So I wonder why you can't just cool the head and spine if the fever is above 103 for more than a couple of hours.

    Anyone know the answer to this?

    I know when the ranch had strangles all the horses ran rampant fevers and the vet had us ice their heads and spine that summer by running cool water from the windmill over their head and back. (I know a horse is not a child but sometimes vets have great info that can be used as well on people)
    arleigh likes this.
  12. If someone has a high fever that will not break you should undress them. Cool wash cloths or a lukewarm bath. No socks on feet. Cool cloths should be placed under the armpits, behind neck, groin area, and drape a cool cloth over feet. Encourage drinking cool fluids. Keep track of their I/O Personally I would rotate Motrin and Tylenol. I would not worry about taking Motrin and Tylenol, it's just to break a fever. And you're not taking it on a reg basis.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  13. guidoLaMoto-

    guidoLaMoto- Monkey

    A few eclectic thoughts on this subject:
    As our immune systems respond to an invasion, they make, among other things, Interferon. One of the effects of interferon is to raise body temp. Anybody being treated for Hep C with Interferon knows fever is a common side effect. Virus replication is slowed by hi body temp, so don;t treat fever until it gets dangerously hi-- over 102 for adults or over 101 or so for kids (don;t lower kid's temps too fast or risk febrile convulsions.)

    ASA, acetominophen & other NSAIDS only cause liver or kidney damage when taken in excessive doses. You;re safe if you take them in recommended doses.

    When they first came out with the flu vaccine in the late 70's, the lobbyists got the govt to pay for them by insisting they would improve productivity by keeping workers on the job. Then the lawyers got involved and extrapolated that (without any proof) to claim they saved lives. In fact the flu shot only lowers the death rate from influenza in the very youngest (infants) and the very oldest (85+) BUT they don't lower the over all death rate in any group. That's because the flu is the mechanism for death only in the very sick-- people just looking for an excuse to die. They are in very fragile health and if it ain't the flu, it'll be something else anyways.

    Flu shots are a scam, not only because they don't save lives, but they don't give lasting immunity like the natural infection does: once immune to , say, H2N2 from natural infection, always immune to H2N2. Not true when immunity comes from the vaccine. That's why getting the vaccine earlier than October often doesn't give you immunity in January when flu season really starts. "I got the shot but got the flu anyways!"

    Flu is picked up when an infected individual coughs or sneezes and sends out that spray of infected droplets. They dry on a surface and then someone else comes by and touches the surface, picking up the bugs on a finger and then inserts the germs into his own body when he scratches his eye, picks his nose or puts a finger (or food) in his own mouth.
    Motomom34, Seawolf1090 and RightHand like this.
  14. RightHand

    RightHand Maslow's Contradiction Moderator Founding Member

    I'm one of those who, until a recent health crisis when one of my mechanical systems decided that it is time to show some wear and tear , has chosen not to medicate myself with anything except for a daily aspirin and I have been surprisingly healthy. I get an occasional cold but no more than every few years. I wash my hands frequently during the day and always as soon as I get home and keep the winter temp inside the house just above freezing. I've maintained that I am healthier because of my spartan lifestyle.
  15. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Before I knew about apple cider vinegar and honey for colds , vitamin C and teas an rest were the way to go.
    When dad taught me about cider vinegar and honey ,a great many more things changed and I used that remedy for flu and colds and even botulism , very successfully.
    Secret to most things having to do with bad food is dealing with it like a fire , NOT CASUALLY but aggressively evacuating the stomach first and fast . Second 2 shots of apple cider vinegar. after swallowing, drink water to clear the mouth.
    The same with all illnesses . Action needs to be dealt with like a fire, the very second one feels the symptoms, and DO every thing it takes to reverse it.
    This has both greater healing effect and morale effect as well. but the longer you nurse a problem the more time you give it ti get established and the victim is becoming accustomed to it as well.
    Hypochondriac thrive on sympathy .
    Liberals thrive on free stuff , you and I pay for.
    A tool I miss is a biofeedback monitor . An excellent device for measuring pain or stress.
    Care givers are at a loss because patients are not always clear about how much pain that are in .
    The person i care for has lots of issues, and in the hospital often besides going to dialysis regularly .
    No doubt her issues are real, having had a life time of them, but I have cared for some that simply go to get prescribed drugs and know the right story to tell to, get them.
    If your THE care giver, it's important to know how to read your patient, especially if you supplies are limited .
  16. SoaySheep

    SoaySheep Monkey

    Regarding the Vitamin C, it's a convoluted answer. Extra Vit C does not actually boost one's immune system It's a water soluble vitamin that if there's extra it is simply dumped into the urine. So if you want to acidify the urine (takes about a gram a day) to reduce chances of bladder infections, that's reasonable assuming you don't have any contraindications. The thing about Vit C is that a deficiency definitely impairs the immune system and most Americans tend to not eat much in the way of fruit, however a lot of things are fortified, so how many are actually deficient is debated. Mega doses of Vit C also stimulate the enzymes that speed up excretion so if you stop them suddenly you can waste too much of it and actually get rebound scurvy

    Avoiding Dr offices during flu season is a good idea if you can wait, or ask for the first appointment in the day. Main thing is handwashing with soap and water. those alcohol based sanitizers are not as good and actually dry out the skin, cause micro fractures in the skin and 30 minutes later you have an increased growth of bacteria as they eat the microscopic amounts of serum leaking through the fractures

    Flu shots, lots of controversy, too much for a post but if you're concerned about shtf scenario really consider vaccines for encapsulated bacteria (Pneumovax is a common vaccine) and meningitis and keep your tetanus boosters up to date (every 10 years)
    Ganado likes this.
  17. SoaySheep

    SoaySheep Monkey

    That's so horribly oversimplified that it's wrong. Yes the goal is herd immunity but it's specifically to protect those who can't get the vaccine and to prevent epidemics. Some people due to a variety of health reasons should not get the flu vaccine. Some people due to health issues definitely should get the vaccine. If nobody gets the vaccine there will be epidemics, Period. If everyone gets the vaccine then epidemics are very unlikely. Yes sometimes the vaccines don't work.

    Most of the people it boils down to risk vs benefit. If you catch the disease, what is your risk of dying from it? What is your risk of significant morbidity from it including life long disability? Most of you are likely too young to know anyone who had polio. Paralysis from polio was a real thing. Remember, well of course you don't remember you weren't born yet, have you read about FDR? If there isn't herd immunity you or someone close to you is likely to contract a variety of illnesses. If you never catch the disease you won't die of it. If you do catch it, what are your odds of mortality and morbidity? Most of the vaccines your odds of significant issues, that's you, not the population, but you, are minuscule usually on the order of 1 in 100,000, whereas your odds of significant problems from the disease may be one a hundred or 100% in the case of rabies. If your odds are better with the vaccine it is in your best interest, not just society for you to get the vaccine.

    The whole autism thing is a joke by idiots and a scam on the part of the researcher who publicized it. Mercury in old teeth fillings and current vaccines are not in a bioavailable form. You are far more likely to have issues from mercury by eating fish from a local public lake.

    The flu vaccine is a bit different in terms of efficacy because it mutates so rapidly. Some years it works great and some years it doesn't work. The general rule is your most likely bad outcome with the vaccine is you get a milder form of the flu than you were likely to have caught on your own.
    Ganado likes this.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    One of the things We have been dealing with for many years.... Our Oldest Grandson, was diagnosed with sever Autism at age 18 Months... He would go crazy everytime his mother used the vacuum cleaner... The sound was painful, in the extreme... When the diagnosis was completed, his Mom and AlaskaChick (My wife and his Grandmother) got down and did research on the condition, and read every Paper being published on Autism, going back decades... They found a Program at the U of Washington that was brand NEW at that time, and went to work, 40 Hours a week, every week, until he entered Kindergarten... Then his Mom researched the Federal & State Special Education Statutes, and conjolled, pushed, kicked and screamed, to force the School District to live up to the Statutes, and got her way... He had an One on One, IN-Class Special Ed Helper, until he was in 3rd Grade, when he MainStreamed, and by 5th Grade there wasn't a need for that, any longer.. Then they moved to Texas, from Alaska... When he was in 8th Grade, he was doing HighSchool Math & Science, and when he was in 10th Grade he started taking College Classes half days at the local Community College.. When he graduated from High School, he also Graduated with a Associates Degree in Math & Science, and was admitted to a 4 year Texas College as a Junior... Now this kid, we were told at 18 Months, would need to be institutionalized and have to wear a Football Helmet, for the rest of his life... Now by dealing with the FEDs, States, and Schools all these years, his Mom because the "Goto Parent" for Special Ed Information, to the Point she was appointed to the Alaska Governors Council on Special Education, in Three Administrations... Testified in a US Senate Committee hearing, and after they moved to Texas, when back to College, got a Degree in Phycology, and a Masters in Clinical & Forensic Phycology, and is a PHD Candidate, and State Licensed, for independent Practice... Is certified, and practices in ABA, and is a Clinical Director for CARD... AlaskaChick is a reTIRED High RisK Labor & Delivery RN, and a Senior Staff Member with MDs w/o Boarders. She chairs their Policies, Procedures, and Protocols Committee, and is their Senior Team Trainer, when they are putting Teams together for overseas Deployment... She has deployed to Africa (Namibia & South Africa) a few times, and has gone on Teaching Deployments, with her Team, to many Medical Schools, and Hospitals, Across Canada and the USA, Certifying folks for Neonatal Resuscitation...

    [RANT ON]The whole Mercury/Autism thing is a Stinking LOAD of Bull CRAP, and has been discredited by every Autism Specialist and Vaccine Specialist, in the WORLD... They haven't used Mercury, as an Preservative in Vaccines, in DECADES... AND if one did their OWN Research on Mercury they would find that Metal Mercury is NOT the KILLER that it is portrayed to be, at Room Temperatures, and it is Methyl Mercury that comes from mostly from Fish Products, that does get adsorbed into Humans... Now HOT Mercury Vapors are a whole other matter, and I am NOT talking about that, here.... I remember a couple of DECADES ago when the FDA got ALL Bent out of Shape, for what THEY perceived, was High Levels of Methyl Mercury in Ocean Caught Halibut, and issued a Strict Guideline, for the Fish Industry that REQUIRED Testing of each Fish BEFORE it could be processed, for SALE... Well it turns out, that at that time, the State of the ART, for Methyl Mercury Testing, was so poor, that the resolution of the testing couldn't even approach the levels present in most Fish samples sent in for testing, and they almost KILLED the North Pacific Halibut Fishery, in the process... The Rules were rescinded after two years, and a BUNCH of .GOV Dudes had Massive EGG Faces... TOTAL BS... [RANT OFF] OK I feel better now....
    Navyair, arleigh, SoaySheep and 2 others like this.
  19. SoaySheep

    SoaySheep Monkey

    Yeah the respiratory exposures to metals are a different ball of wax, so even with aluminum foundry workers are the big risk group, not using an aluminum pan
  20. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    that is why I don't stock rubbing alcohol only vodka because it would be really hard to absorb though the skin enough to do much but the toxin of methyl (Methyl isobutyl ketone ) in rubbing alcohol can be avoided by using grain alcohol. in prepping any trade good is better if it has multiple uses grain alcohol is used for making cough suppressants with essential oils water and honey taken internally for some pains types and as a topical to clean wounds in recent years to not use peroxide for anything other than minor scratches or cuts,
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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