PSA Sale .. complete upper plus parts kit

Discussion in 'Buy Sell Trade' started by sec_monkey, Dec 7, 2018.


  1. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

  2. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Now match that up with one of their $40 lowers that seem to pop up every other day... $300 + transfer fee = AR
     
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  3. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    DAMN!

    Just got my A2 Colt retro 607 SBR ( pistol) upper and a nice 80% billet lower, $680 total WITH low mass bolt carrier!
    Cant wait to choot it!
    Dad just got a Colt 6520 A2 Gov. profile!
     
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  4. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor Site Supporter+

    PSA now is also offering pretty much the same completion kit in GRAY at same $259 price sku 5165450284
     
  5. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

  6. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

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  7. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I need to ask a stupid question here... So, I always hear about guys building firearms and I always thought it was merely for pleasure of doing so and to save a bit of money.

    But, apparently, many do this because there is no record of this firearm so if things went South and firearms became illegal then there is no record of the individual having it. Is this true? Please explain in detail.

    I ask because if indeed it is true then I intend to get busy... I don't believe this "My guns fell in the lake" will pass the bullshit test if things do become serious so...so if that is true, 3-4 untraceable firearms built by me would be a nice comfort for a rainy day.

    In Idaho, when one purchases a firearm, a quick check (phone call) to see if you are a criminal is made and you must fill out some paperwork which is kept at the Store where you made the purchase (I've never like this but it is what it is). One then can walk out with your new gun right then and there but the paper trail is indeed at the store and the phone call is probably logged into at the Sherriff's department or worse...
     
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  8. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Better get busy then!
     
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  9. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    @Bandit99

    lowers need to be purchased and shipped to an FFL who will perform the background check (y) (y)

    uppers can be purchased online without a background check :) :)

    unable to publicly comment on other options
     
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  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Then that does not appear to me to be much better than I what I have right now here in Idaho except, of course, the cost would be less. In our case, the store is the FFL and does the paperwork and keeps it on file so...

    What about these gun shows (I have never been)? Are they the same?
     
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  11. sec_monkey

    sec_monkey SM Security Administrator

    virtually all vendors at gun shows perform background checks contrary to what ya may have heard

    private transactions between individuals do not require a background check, except in Nozi states like kommifornia plus a few others

    ya do typically have to show photo ID in most states for private transactions where they are legally permitted
     
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  12. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Federal Statutes REQUIRE that ALL Finished Receivers be Serial Numbered, Identified by the OEM, and reported to ATF upon Manufacture, or Import, not by Serial Number, but my number of units produced, and OEM Name... You could buy a "Less than 80% Finished" Receiver that does NOT need a Serial Number, or purchase from an FFL, and has NOT been Reported to ATF, however then you have to finish the 20% of Machining in order to build a FireArm using it.... These FireArms are then considered "Ghost Guns" as they are NOT in the Federal System. In a Weapons Trace, the ATF would look at the OEM Name and Serial Number Stamped, or Engraved on the Receiver, and then Contact the OEM and find out Which FFL was sold that Weapon or Receiver. They then can follow that Weapon or Receiver thru the Sales System by following the Bound Book Entries of each FFL until they finally get to the Retail Sale to a Non-FFL and them look at the 4473,that is in the Retail Sales FFLs Records and get the Name, & Address, to the First Non-FFL Purchaser. and that usually is where the Trace ends... simply because many folks just lose track of any Bill of Sale after a few years, and can't remember just who or were the Buyer lives or was, as it isn't recorded ANYWHERE... Now if you build a Ghost Gun, and sell it across State Lines then you are in violation, of the Federal Statute.. Of course if you are the third or fourth owner of a Ghost Gun, and the Paper Trail doesn't Exist, then it would be hard to PROVE in a Court of Law that you indeed moved it across State Lines in Interstate Commerce...

    My closest "Ghost Gun" is my 38ACP 1903 Colt Pocket Automatic Pistol.... I traded a 10# Box of Cherries and a 5# Watermelon for it, from a friend who Got it from his Godfather, who found it in a crashed WWII Aircraft, out in the bush of Alaska... It has a Serial Number and the Colt Records show it was built in 1908... That is it for Records... It is NOT registered in my FFL Bound Book as I owned it long before I gained my First FFL. The same is true for my Winchester 69A, Winchester 94 Saddle ring Carbine, and my Winchester Model 52 Pre A... All the rest of my FireArms ARE recorded in my FFL Bound Book, and as such are ALL Inventory... Which by Federal Statute are REQUIRED to be in my Personal Possession, and can NOT be removed from my Personal Possession by ANYONE except a US Marshal, or an ATF Agent with a Warrant to do so, Specifically... and then again, ALL my BP Weapons are NOT subject to ANY Federal Statutes, as they are NOT FireArms, by that same Federal Statute....
     
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @BTPost I get it. So, it appears that even these 'Ghost guns' are traceable via sales records unless one is purchased via person-to-person sale and even then is possible if the seller retains the 'Bill of Sale.'

    So, truthfully, there really is no such thing as a 'Ghost gun', correct? It does make it harder to trace but is fairly traceable until numerous sales and even possible then...
     
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  14. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    @Bandit99 .... Most 80% Receiver Sales are done on a Person to Person Private Transaction, between the OEM and the Buyer... Since they are NOT Receivers yet, because they are NOT finished, they require NO Reporting to any Federal Agency, or Serial Numbering or Engraving... The OEM May or May NOT record the transaction in a Bill Of Sale... That is up to them, and their Business Practices... Some States are NOW requiring 80% Receiver Sales, to be recorded and complete with Bills of Sales...
    If I was in the Market for an 80% Receiver, I would buy one from a third Party, or better yet a 4th or 5th Party from the OEM, and no actual Bill of Sale Generated in any of those latter transactions.... But since I am NOT in that Market, it is NOT an Issue I have to worry about....
     
  15. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    IMO the reason to build is to gain practical knowledge so that you have the skills and tools to maintain your firearm as well as to repair others you might acquire during emergency times. Don't forget spare parts along with the tools and also ammunition and magazines. PSA has been blowing out D&H mags for $7.99 fairly regularly as well as ammo @~ $300 per thousand rounds. The rifle is in reality about a quarter to a third of the money you wil spend per rifle - don't forget scopes and sights, either.

    So think $300 - $500 firearm. $600 to $900 ammo, $150 - $200 magazines, $125 tools, $50 - $150 rear sight, $400 for a scope and mount, $20- $50 sling at a bare minimum.

    EDIT: If you have more cash get more ammo, especially at today's bargain prices (about a third of Obama era prices). Items listed above are per rifle.

    As others have stated the only way to get an undocumented firearm is to build it yourself and 80% lowers should be paid for in cash from someone other than a manufacturer or vendor and I would include any jig kits as well. If you are close to PSA's retail outlet you could buy the receiver free kits for cash so the purchase wouldn't show up on a card.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  16. DarkLight

    DarkLight I self identify as a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter! Site Supporter

    @Bandit99 - As @BTPost has mentioned, the closest you are going to get to a ghost gun via retail means is indeed an 80% lower and unless and until you have the means to produce the upper, there will likely be some kind of record of the sale somewhere unless you use multiple cut-outs for the non-serialized parts. Like he also mentioned, some states require the 80% lower to be tracked with a bill of sale. I'd be interested to see who has fires or lost data should the laws change...might be interesting indeed.

    On the other side of that coin is either a CNC machine which would allow you to cut out/mill an entire lower and potentially portions of the upper. The barrel is going to need to come from somewhere though...

    3D printers are becoming more available as well, and there have been several proven 3D printed AR-15 lowers as well as other form factors. The weak point on ALL of these is the buffer tube tower and they all end up failing after 20-100 rounds (haven't seen anything last longer than that I don't think, but I haven't kept up with it). Again, this is just for the "firearm" or the serialized part...aka the lower. If you can cash and carry an upper from somewhere, things start to get translucent if not entirely "ghosty".
     
  17. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    The 80% lower route is the least traceable way if you source parts face to face. That said if things go completely belly up you only need something that fires once. For me building from parts and 80% is just a hobby and I always destroy them when I'm finished so that they can't walk out and shoot someone when I turn my back.
     
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  18. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Ok, I think I got it. Unfortunately, PSA is clear across the country; however the good news is Santa came early and replaced all the ammo I have went through in the last couple years as there were really good deals this year on 9mm and 5.56 so, yeah, I am ammo heavy. I can't buy more because I can't store more...

    So, I need to talk to some guys around here about where they have purchased their 80% lowers as this is gun and truck country. It's not a big issue as I have good firearms but...I am sort of interested and would like to play around with building one anyway.
     
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  19. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I need something just like that, with the parts kit and all but with a flat top gas block instead of an A pillar.
     
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  20. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Best places around here(Texas) are gun shows and LGS storefronts using FRNs. I do also use online sellers and yes I know if they really wanted to trace the sale of a gas block or the shoulder thingy that goes up back to me they could. I also don't take ALL my parts fishing in leaky boats. Need to have some here to be "found" don't you know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018 at 9:15
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