Question about the Torah and Christianity

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by Ajax, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    How do most Christians in general regard the Torah and old testament? Maybe it's how I have been raised but I take the entire Bible front to back as the word of God and every bit just as important as the rest but after talking with some people recently I wondered if the general consensus among Christianity was the Torah and/or old testament was not that important. I'm sure it varies from denomination to denomination.

    What do you guys think?
  2. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    keeping and or following the "teachings"

    you can see by my post that we follow as close as possible the teachings and instructions of the 5 books of Moses or the first 5 books of the bible.We came out of the church and man's traditions as we had been taught over 6 yrs ago and no it wasn't always an easy "road to hoe".We loved truth more than traditions. We value every word in scripture and base our actions on those words and it must line up with scripture.
    We chose to observe the feast and not man's holidays and eat according to the dietary instructions and that's not eating Kosher .We'll observe the 7th day sabbath tonight at sundown till Sat sundown and the funny thing is "we're not Jewish " as many claim since we do these things.
    So that's it goes on this end and it's not a very popular path since we see very few on it...
    NOWHITEFLAG likes this.
  3. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I agree, I don't know how anyone could discount the Old Testament, it's part of the word of God.
  4. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    90 Reasons to Keep Torah

    Ajax ,I think many believers either don't understand or misunderstand what your asking here and they associate Torah with the dreaded LAW controversy when the Torah is translated as "teachings"We have to overcome an Eastern vs Western mindset in order to reveal what the scripture really has to offer.

    The Torah is practically a forgotten book. Many religions claim this set of teachings given by YHVH to Moses somehow have been invalidated/abolished because of the "new" Christian Era, but according to the Scriptures, as we can see, that's not true and isn't proven out.

    Here is a list of 90 reasons why we can believe that YHVH's Law still remains valid today, and much more than that, it is a pleasure to live it purely, without additions and human traditions, just the Torah.

    YHVH's Torah is perpetual. (Dt 5:29, 12:28 and Jo 1:7-9)

    Yeshua hasn't annulled the Torah. (Mt 5:17-19)

    The Torah is not only for the Jews. (Ex 12:49 and Lv 24:22)

    The Torah will be kept in Yeshua's Kingdom. (Zec 14:16 and Isa 66:23)

    It's a duty of every person to keep YHVH's Torah. (Eccl 12:13)

    Those who love Yeshua keep the Torah. (Jn 14:15,21)

    YHVH's Torah is pure. (Ps 19:8)

    YHVH's Torah is spiritual. (Rom 7:14)

    YHVH's Torah is holy. (Rom 7:12)

    YHVH's Torah is just. (Rom 7:12)

    YHVH's Torah is perfect. (Ps 19:7 and Rom 12:2)

    YHVH's Torah is immutable. (Dt 4:2)

    YHVH's Torah is the Truth. (Ps 119:142 and Mal 2:6)

    Happy are those who keep it. (Ps 1:1-2 and Ps 119:1-2)

    Those who keep it are not ashamed. (Ps 119:5-6)

    We should ask YHVH to teach it to us. (Ps 119:12-13,26,33,64)

    YHVH's Torah is wonderful. (Ps 119:18,129)

    Our souls should long for it. (Ps 119:20,168)

    To walk in the Torah is to walk in the Way. (Ps 119:31-32)

    We should desire YHVH's Torah. (Ps 119:40,131)

    Those who have understanding keep YHVH's Torah. (Ps 110:10, 119:34)

    The just delights in the Torah. (Ps 1:2 and 119:35)

    To speak about the Torah is to speak about the Truth. (Ps 119:43)

    YHVH's Torah is freedom, not bondage. (Ps 119:44-45)

    YHVH's Torah comforts us. (Ps 119:52)

    Those who don't keep it walk in deception. (Ps 119:66-67)

    YHVH's Torah is better than wealth. (Ps 119:72)

    YHVH's Torah is life, not death. (Ps 119:92-93)

    We should love the Torah and meditate on it daily. (Dt 6:7 and Ps 119:97)

    The Torah makes a man wise. (Ps 119:98-104 and Pv 28:7)

    YHVH's Torah is light. (Ps 119:105)

    The just mourn when the Torah is not kept. (Ps 119:136)

    Even the most humble should keep YHVH's Torah. (Ps 119:142)

    Those who love YHVH's Torah have peace. (Ps 119:165 and Isa 48:18)

    Those who love YHVH's Torah don't stumble. (Ps 119:165)

    We should tell of YHVH's Torah. (Ps 119:27,46,172)

    YHVH's Torah is not heavy. (1 Jn 5:3)

    The New Covenant is built on the Torah, not against it. (Jer 31:31-33)

    The Torah should be in our hearts. (2 Ki 10:31, Ezr 7:10, Job 22:22, Ps 37:31, 40:8, 119:34, Pv 3:1, Isa 51:7 and Jer 31:33)

    The Torah was given through angels. (Ac 7:53 and Heb 2:2)

    Signs and wonders preceded the giving of the Torah. (Ex 19:16 and Dt 33:2)

    It's called YHVH's oracle. (Ac 7:38)

    It's called the Real Torah. (Jas 2:8)

    It's a testimony of YHVH. (Dt 31:26)

    It's treated with deep reverence. (Dt 31:26)

    We should remember the Torah. (Mal 4:4)

    The Torah should be read regularlly. (Dt 31:11)

    The Torah leads to the faith in Yeshua. (Gl 3:24)

    Yeshua kept the Torah. (Mt 5:17)

    His followers also kept the Torah. (Re 12:17 and 14:12)

    Abraham demonstrated his faith by obeying the Torah. (Gn 26:5)

    YHVH is merciful to those who keep it. (Ex 20:6)

    The faith doesn't annul the Torah, it establishes it. (Rom 3:31)

    YHVH prospers those who keep it. (Lv 26:13 and Dt 28:13)

    YHVH dwells among those who obey the Torah. (Lv 26:11-12)

    Those who fear YHVH keep the Torah. (Dt 5:29)

    The children of those who keep the Torah prosper. (Dt 5:29, 7:9)

    The Torah is not hard, nor inaccessible. (Dt 30:10-14)

    Those who reject the Torah serve demons. (1 Ki 18:18 and 2 Ki 17:16)

    Those who keep it will reign forever with YHVH. (1 Chr 28:7)

    YHVH abandons those who reject the Torah... (2 Chr 24:20)

    ... and Yeshua will say that He doesn't know them. (Mt 7:21-23) - iniquity = Greek anomia = absence of/opposition to the Law.

    Those who reject the Torah commit abomination... (Ezr 9:14)

    ... and even their prayers are an abomination. (Pv 29:9)

    Even the angels keep the Torah. (Ps 103:20)

    The fool despises the Torah. (Pv 10:8)

    Those who keep the Torah abide in Yeshua's love. (Jn 15:10)

    Only those who keep the Torah in fact acknowledge Yeshua. (1 Jn 2:3)

    He who says that he follows Yeshua but despises the Torah is a liar. (1 Jn 2:4)

    Those who keep the Torah have their prayers answered. (1 Jn 3:22)

    Paul says we should observe the Torah. (Rom 2:13)

    Those who keep the Torah displease the Adversary. (Re 12:17)

    Those who keep the Torah will eat from the tree of life. (Re 22:14)

    The faith in Yeshua is part of the true obedience to the Torah. (Dt 18:15)

    The Torah will be taught in the End Times, from Zion. (Isa 2:2-4 and Mic 4:2)

    It's necessary to keep the Torah to be a disciple of YHVH. (Isa 8:16)

    The spirit of the beast changes and rejects the Torah. (Dan 7:25 and 2 Thes 2:3)

    The lack of knowledge of the Torah causes destruction. (Hos 4:6)

    Those who reject the Torah don't have YHVH's protection. (Isa 42:24)

    The Torah protects us from deception. (Ps 119:29)

    The Torah brings wisdom. (Ps 119:98)

    He who despises it follow his carnality. (Ps 119:150)

    Paul denied having spoken against the keeping of the Torah. (Ac 24:13-14, 25:7-8)

    Paul kept the Torah. (Ac 24:24)

    Paul recommended the proper use of the Torah. (1 Tm 1:8)

    Paul spoke against human laws, not against YHVH's law. (Col 2:23 and Ti 1:14)

    Sin is the transgression of the Torah. (1 Jn 3:4)

    He who keeps the Torah dwells in Yeshua. (1 Jn 3:24)

    Total number of people reprimanded by keeping the Torah in Scriptures: ZERO.

    However, thousands of people in the Bible are reprimanded for not keeping YHVH's Torah.

    " ... just as our dear brother Sha'ul [Paul] also wrote you, following the wisdom Elohim gave him. Indeed, he speaks about these things in all his letters. They contain some things that are hard to understand, things which the uninstructed and unstable distort, to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. But you, dear friends, since you know this in advance, guard yourselves; so that you will not be led away by the errors of those who reject the Torah, and fall from your own secure position" (2 Peter 3:15-17 - Crawford Manuscript)
  5. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I'm not referring to the ceremonial law in the old testament. I believe most Christians take the commmandments seriously.

    The old testament is full of spiritual examples that coincide with the new testament.
  6. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    This is how I feel in a nutshell^.

    There are certain portions of the Law that were not carried over to Christianity. If they were, we would still be sacrificing animals. This is repeated over and over throughout the New Testament. If read any of my replies to Skyking, you can kind of get my point. The reason why the 10 commandments don't go away is because of Jesus' explanation of the "greatest commandment" paired with the way Christians are supposed to treat each other and non-believers. This is clear throughout the letters of the New Testament. Based on that, the Moral Law didn't go away with the New Covenant. Ceremonial and Judicial Law was changed by the New Covenant. We no longer sacrifice because Jesus provided the ultimate sacrifice in exchange for our sin. We no longer stone adulterers because Jesus taught "turn the other cheek" and "he without sin cast the first stone".

    The entire Old Testament and all the Law was created for one reason- to keep the bloodline and path clear for Jesus. After Jesus, eat pork to your heart's content (Acts 10) or don't- it's your choice. Eat the food of pagan sacrifices if you want (Romans 14), or don't- it's your choice. Did Paul write the letter to the Romans in Hebrew? No, he wrote it in Greek and used "Theos" for God. Hence our English translations. Does God care as long as you believe in only Him? No. (iterated in Romans 14- idols are nothing to a Christian).

    What can the the Old Testament do for us... well, for starters, it was the revelation of God to a people. I am finishing up Joshua tonight at a study. What can we learn from it- God keeps his promises. Look at what He did for Joshua and Caleb. He keeps promises to the faithful.

    ^ That is just one example. There are hundreds of other examples that Christians should study. Also of importance is the revelation of the Savior. Psalms 2 describes the second coming of Jesus. There are more reasons than I can list why the Old Testament is important.
    Sapper John and Ajax like this.
  7. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I agree. It always amazes me how the Old Testament prophecies the birth of Jesus, so long before Jesus was born, among many other prophecies that came true, it's beyond coincidence.
    Hispeedal2 likes this.
  8. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    The Old Testament is important in the study of the Bible and the Christian faith...however, too many people of the Christian faith insist on living under Mosaic law instead of the law given to us by our Lord Jesus...Jesus made it quite clear of what is expected of us and what we would be required to do to enter into Heaven! People seem to forget that Jesus was a Rabbi and taught in the Temple and Knew Mosaic Law better than ANY man...Jesus was the ONLY "man" to ever live the law without breaking any of them...He knew that man could NEVER live a perfect life and enter in to Heaven because of their failure to do so! Jesus knew that the ONLY way we could enter into heaven and stand before him and the Father was to do away with the Old Law and enter into a covenant with him under the New Law that HE gave us during his ministry...If we continue to live under the old Mosaic Law then Jesus' life, ministry and sacrifice would have been for nothing...He desires us to live as HE has told us to live, under the New Law that HE provided...As long as we live our lives as HE has directed us to, then every thing else is Less than his teachings...His Law will ALWAYS come first...
    Ajax and Hispeedal2 like this.
  9. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    It is truly a shame that people will take something so beautiful and simple and make it so difficult...The majority of people to whom Jesus taught,including his own Disciples, were primarily poor,uneducated and illiterate...Many people that I have spoken with were turned off to Christianity because others made it so very complex and difficult as if it were a secret society or club for a privileged few...that is NOT what Jesus intended in his teaching...I do not care how many T.V. or radio preachers that are out there on the airwaves...READ the teaching of CHRIST JESUS and listen to what he tells your heart...DO NOT be seduced by flashy or fancy preachers who do not follow Christ's teaching... Those "preachers" who lead Christ's people on the wrong path are surly damned...
    Ajax, BTPost and Hispeedal2 like this.
  10. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    This will be my last post on this subject (I hope) and then I will have said my peace and can then "shake the dust from my feet..." The LORD is looking for sons and daughters who recognize that they live in the SPIRIT by his GRACE ALONE...It is truly that simple...
    Hispeedal2 likes this.
  11. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I agree, it can minimize what Jesus did if you don't recognize there is a new covenant and the old laws passed away.

    The Old Testament is just as important as the New Testament and I don't mean because it says not to eat pork under the old law, it coincides with the New Testament in many ways, you can't have one without the other, it is all the Word of God and is all great.
  12. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    The ReNEWed Covenant

    What is NEW about the New Covenant?
    June 2008
    Does the New Covenant mean the end of Israel or mean that the Church represents a NEW fulfillment of the prophecies given to Israel? Jeremiah gave a prophecy he called the New Covenant revealing something wonderful that God had planned for the two houses of Israel, namely, the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah. It is part of God’s plan to reunite and restore the separated northern and southern kingdoms of Israel. God would make another NEW covenant with all of Israel.

    I like the example of the New Moon ,is it truly NEW or renewed each month ?
    From: Yochanan Mascaro
    Subject: The ReNEWed Covenant

    In Jeremiah 31:31 it is wrtten:
    KJV Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will
    make a NEW (Strong's 2319) covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of
    In Hebrews 8:8 it is written:
    KJV Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the
    days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the
    house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    We have been led to believe in traditional Christianity that the
    NEW covenant means 'totally new' and replaced the "old". However, the
    Hebrew word actually means that this is a ReNEWed covenant. A couple
    of years ago, I was attending a Torah study with Jews (not believers
    in Yeshua/Jesus as Messiah) and the Rabbi at the study made reference
    to Jeremiah 31:31 and made the statement:
    "The new covenant does not mean 'new' as in the traditional
    Christian interpretation but actually means reNEWed."
    Below is a more detailed explanation by Yochanan Mascaro.
    Chadashah or Hadashah contain the Hebrew word Chadash or Hadash (Strongs
    H-2319) meaning 'new' but also can mean 'renewed' because it comes from a
    Hebrew root (Strongs H-2318) which means renewed or refreshed. This is why
    when YermiYahu (Jer.) prophesies about the covenant which is to come at
    31:31-38 the expression 'new' there could mean either 'new' but also mean
    'renewed' in a deeper sense. The 'new moon' (rosh chodesh) for example is
    really a renewed moon in that the moon hasn;t changed it just has gone
    around its cycle. I beleive that this analogy applies to the covenants as
    well. It is not so much a new covenant but a renewed covenant.
  13. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Kingdom Rewards for Keeping the Law

    What "laws" do yo think he or anyone of that time taught from.....perhaps the "5 books of Moses" or the Torah, all they had was the "teachings"
    Jesus Fulfills the Law and the Prophets

    17“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them, 18because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter[h] or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. 19So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven 20because I tell you, unless your righteousness greatly exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven!”

    Kingdom Rewards for Keeping the Law

    Entering the Kingdom of God is not a pass or fail issue. Some will be called "great" in the Kingdom, and some will be called, "least". Some will have a big inheritance, and some a small. Below are a few verses that show that not everyone will be resurrected equally.

    Luke 19:15-19
    And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

    Matthew 19:27-29
    Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    Matthew 18:3-4
    And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

    Psalm 19:7-11
    The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

    Matthew 5:17-20
    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    By looking at the above verse, can you tell me who will be called “least in the kingdom” and “great in the kingdom of heaven”?

    If you found out that you were going to be called “great in the kingdom of heaven” would it affect you in a negative way? How about if someone walked up to you today and gave you ten million dollars, would that affect you in a negative way? I know some people who have a lot of money, and they walk, talk and behave with much pride. They think that they should be called “great” on earth. Some of them have the “look at me” attitude. And the real crazy thing is, some of these people were blessed (or cursed) with the money from a marriage, inheritance, or some lucky investment and they still walk around with their shoulders back, in a “look at me” attitude. Many will probably say, “If someone gave me a million dollars, it won’t affect me”. Well, the chances are extremely high that it will.

    Matthew 19:23-24
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    There is nothing wrong with having a lot of money. In fact, having a lot of money is supposed to be a good thing. Keeping the law is also supposed to be a good thing, but to the Pharisees, keeping the law was like a rich man showing off his wealth. The Pharisees got “puffed up” by keeping the law. They were very prideful of keeping the law. Pride is first on the list of the six things the LORD hates (Proverbs 6:16-17). By looking at other people, the Pharisees thought that they were more righteous than others because they thought they kept the law better than the others. They would also add things to the law that they thought would make them a more righteous person.

    Keeping the law can make you healthy, wealthy and wise, but it will not make you righteous. Just one small sin will make you unrighteous. Don’t look at other people and their failures. Let God be their judge. Focus fixing your own shortcomings and then the true meaning of “grace” becomes much clearer.

    Just as someone giving you a ten million dollar gift, Christ gave you salvation as a free gift. You didn’t earn it. Don’t get puffed up! We are only made righteous by the blood of Christ!

    There might be a lot of people who are just coming to the realization that the law still applies. Many of these people will want to go out and tell everyone of their “new revelation”. I personally will not teach someone that the law still applies unless they are ready to hear it. There are some things that are not meant for everyone to understand (Matthew 13:10-15). If I think that the person will become like the Pharisees and “puff” themselves up, then I avoid telling them about some of the law and focus on other things in that person’s life first.

    To sum it up: Christ gets you in the Kingdom (for those who repent). Keeping the Law of God gets you better rewards in the Kingdom (as long as you don’t get puffed up).
  14. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    I may misunderstand, but, actions will not provide a better place in heaven, your relationship and growth with Jesus Christ through prayer and the word of God will, but doing a good deed for the sake of doing a good deed won't. I don't see your comment being proven with any of the verses you posted above.

    Many Jewish people do good deeds and follow the old laws but they lack the most important thing, a relationship with Yahoshua.

    NOWHITEFLAG Live Free or Die Trying

    Not Jewish

    You are Good company,
    Neither was King David, the greatest earthly king of Israel, His father Jesse was, but his mother wasn't.It is the bloodline of the mother that determines the ethnicity.And you also may be more JEWISH than you think since you do study Torah take a look back in Genisis. Israel(Jacob), had 12 sons,Joseph was one of them, This is were G-D, shows how cool he is. When Joseph was Vice-roy of Egypt, Pharoh was so greatful to Joseph that he gave him a wife,from the daughters of a High Priest of Om.(Pagen Religion).-None JEW- She bore two son for Joseph, Manasseh,Ephriam.Neither one is Jewish. As Jacob was getting ready to die,Joseph heard and took his two sons to Jacob.Now here is where you have to pay close attention in Genisis, Jacob called Manasseh and Ephriam as if they were HIS sons.A heir is son/daughter, join-heir is grandson/daughter.Here is your FIRST grafting/adopting in of GENTILES to the house of Israel(JACOB)-gee G-D is cool. Also look at the BLESSING,Jacob put on Ephriam and Manasseh. Jacob broke the normal protocols.He Blessed Ephriam first he was the 2nd son and Blessed Manasseh 2nd,Manasseh was the 1st son.Pay close attention to the Blessings, Ephriam was to become the Father of Many Nations (See Abrahamic Promise)and Manasseh the Father of A- Great Nations.The tribe of Ephriam was the largest tribe of the Northern Kingdom and led the rest into Idolatry there by causing G-D to send the Northern Kingdom into Exile, So you might just be a decedant of Ephriam. PS: Don't sweated it,G-d has a plan for reconcilation, Check out what G-D told Ezekial to do with 2 sticks.

    No White Flags Above My Door.
    skyking likes this.
  16. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    no sweat on this end my friend,I just know what I'm apart of and that's the blessing to me. Are you the only one on this forum that "really gets it "?
    thanks for the support...
  17. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    funny you picked out that line to quote,what about the rest of the post,hate to disappoint anyone here ,BUT I"M NOT JEWISH , never have been.
    I've tried to give and post scripture in most of my responses ,it seems to me the argument that everyone has is not with me and my material it's with God and the scripture.You folks need to tell him the reasons your telling me .I know what I know about being obedient and following his commands and statutes and your reasoning for doing and not doing is between the two of you.
    He's told you to follow the teachings and instructions "forever "in your generations so how hard is that to understand? Funny thing though AJAX if my understanding is correct, when a person hears these truths/facts/scripture they will then be held accountable for they're actions or how they acted upon such information.You better believ I know the penalty's for myself if I'm spreading false teachings or cause a brother /sister to stumble.It's serious business.It's one I don't take lightly.
  18. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    There is no problem with the word of God, the problem is how people some times interpret what they read, I'm not saying anyone here does that exactly just stating that the word of God is perfect.

    I believe in every word and morsel found in the Bible, including when it talks about Jesus Christ swallowing up the old covenant with his sacrifice and dying on the cross of Mount Calvary. The Bible says there is no way to God but through Jesus, to me when someone says Jesus gets you in the gate, so to speak, and following the old covenant laws draws you closer to God it seems to contradict what the Bible says. I actually agree with several of the things you have posted.
    skyking likes this.

    NOWHITEFLAG Live Free or Die Trying

    Gets it

    Probably not,
    I know it was a fight inside myself,
    Having to change the things that I had been taught all my life.
    I think, that if the truth keeps getting put out there. Most folks will sooner or later change as you and I did.
    skyking likes this.
  20. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    I'm with you ,It's hard to put into words and thoughts this process of re-learning or re-programming the deception all this time .
    If you start way back when you learn that the names have been changed {God/Jesus}and then you learn that the statutes/commandments were given to all the people{Israelites}and that you/I are part of Israel and when Jesus was here on earth he like all the other prophets and teachers were trying to lead the people BACK to the teachings{5 Books of Moses}.He did away with the curses and not the law or teachings.Then learning that when the NT was penned and even later the only history book they had was the OT and learning about the feast and appointed times and how they're a shadow of the future {return} of the Messiah.If your not aware of these events then how hard will it be to be deceived and possibly even misled.My prayer would be that if but one person starts to ask questions rather than say "BUT' it will have been a successful journey.
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