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Range Safety Officer Duties

Discussion in 'Range reports' started by Ganado, Jun 4, 2018.


  1. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    There are some basics covered with being a good RSO and most of that is covered in the rules that are posted and are basic common sense for people who have been around guns.

    AND

    there are some things that a good RSO needs to watch for that aren't covered by the rules

    I was at the range this weekend and the 'bad' RSO was on duty. It never fails, everytime this guy is on duty there are one or two of 'those guys' who pretend to instruct women in firearms that all they are doing is rubbing their penis on the woman's ass.

    The consequences of allowing this behavior is that women who are new to shooting don't come back.

    I didn't shoot much yesterday because i spent most of my time talking to the women that these two guys were working over. This kind of behavior pisses me off. I went to the RSO and let him know what was happening and asked him to speak to the men. He refused. So I got up this morning and went to the range to speak to the overall manager who is also and RSO. We will see what he does about the 'bad' RSO. If he does nothing I will speak with him further and start moving all the women I know to a different range.

    When a woman comes to a range and is new, we as shooters, should do everything we can to encourage her. It's intimidating enough to walk into a range that is mostly men without having all the sexual harassment, embarrassment and physical over friendliness that happens with these type of guys.

    Don't get me wrong 99% of the men at this range are gentlemen and really want to help and there are really good instructors who teach you to hold a gun from behind by laying their arms over yours, the difference is when they rub their junk into your ass. It's subtle, which is why they get away with it. It is up to us, as experienced shooters to let these guys know this is off limits.

    I did the chain of command thing, my preference would have been to grab his ear and haul his ass to the parking lot, but I'm not big enough to finish him off, so we will see what happens.

    My question to all of you is 2 fold
    1) what would you have done?
    2) do you ever try to stop this behavior when at the range?
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    1) Corner the woman during a break and ask if she was offended. If offended, I'd have to wonder why she continues. If she is offended AND shy, I'd talk to the "helpful" male for her. The last thing I'd want to do is escalate it, and moreover, I do not see how it is the RSO's responsibility, it is not a range safety issue in any way shape or form. In fact, it is meddling in other's affairs.
    2) Never see it on the trap range, so I'm out of the loop.

    YMMV and clearly does.
     
    Tevin and Ganado like this.
  3. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I understand your response @ghrit, and I think your 1st response of asking them if they minded the behavior is a good 1st response. The problem is not necessarily one that men understand, Ask yourself, how would you feel if some guy came up and asked if he could help and then in helping started rubbing his penis all over your ass crack?

    Women are taught to be polite (and it may be in our genetic makeup) so we don't say anything about this kind of behavior, also as a woman who is new to a range how would you know who to talk to about the behavior?

    If we don't make this kind of behavior our business then we don't get women to come to gun ranges. This kind of behavior is why I shoot with a group of girl friends, and why we befriend every woman on the range, but we are not always at the range.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    :lol: Sorry 'bout this, but the door is opened. I'd be forced to speak once, and if repeated, I'd adjust the angle of his nose.

    That said in the case of male on female rubbing, once could be unconscious, the second time would be a deliberate rub. That's called assault and a physical response would be appropriate.
     
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  5. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    that is exactly my opinion on the matter @ghrit but I'm not big enough to enforce it physically (refer to 1st post for this comment)

    Women need men to speak up for alot of reasons, I can go grab the guy by the ear but if it's just me an him I lose on size alone. I can speak up but if I don't have male backing I cannot defend against a man who is 6 ft and 180 lbs. It's just physics
     
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    At the very least, "you" have a voice. If there are others at the range, a bit of noise should go a long way, If no one else is there, well, extrapolate a bit; and knowing the risks, you are armed and being assaulted. Knowing your abilities, it seems unlikely you'll be alone at a range, so the point is moot.
     
  7. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    I have taught a lot of ladies how to shoot a handgun, and it was NEVER necessary for me to be close enough to press my body against theirs!
    You are absolutely right to complain!
     
    oldawg, chelloveck, Yard Dart and 8 others like this.
  8. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    If I see a couple at the range, I make the assumption that they came together. So, what ever they do - if it is safe, I don't care.

    I have invited women to the range to try different calibers of pistols and to demo the difference between revolver vice autoloader and explain some the issues with each. They proceed to shoot each and if they ask, for further instruction , I give them a name of a professional trainer. For me , it is an issue of liability. .

    When doing this - I stand to one side where I can fully control the weapon - I may put my hand over the top of the weapon if the women is worried about (comic book) recoil.

    I would never dream of approaching a stranger - let alone a woman to offer instruction. If, however, if they flag anyone with the weapon, I will get their face - no matter the sex - safety is safety.

    As for the OP - did you offer to provide some instruction w/o the mauling?

    My experience may be unique - my wife was taught by her father (an MP in WWII) . I taught my daughter, later she was on the high school rifle team. Sadly, she never got her high school 'dream' job .
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  9. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    I would say, first, that it absolutely is a range safety issue. And a very serious one.

    What if the woman was so offended that she turned around to confront him--with a live weapon in her hand?

    She's newbie, so she can't be presumed to know that turning a live weapon 90 degrees to the firing line can endanger many people.

    Likewise, what if she had a Hollywood moment, turned around and stuck a loaded weapon in the idiot's face.

    And what if it went off while she was trying to tell him to back off?

    What if she was trying to learn how to shoot because she was the victim of a brutal rape, and just isn't going to take it anymore?

    He could wind up dead, even if she only shot him in a moment of irrational emotional over-reaction.

    The words "I"m sorry. I didn't mean to." do not resurrect.

    Or what if she just got flustered, lost her grip on her weapon, misdirected it, and took a bullet, say, through the palm of her hand? Or someplace fatal?

    I've known many women that will spin right around and deck a groper without a second thought.

    No woman has to take that crap, and many will physically stop it the instant it starts. And if they happen to be holding a skillet at the time, the transgressor can jolly-well wake up with "Griswold" printed on the side of his head as a reminder to be polite to the ladies.

    I, for one, would not want to be slapped upside the head with a loaded pistol.

    If I were a RSO, it would be my job to call that idiot off the line, and put someone else in charge of the new shooter. Then the idiot and I would have a brief, but life-changing, conversation.

    If he failed to behave after that , I'd take a few photos and make sure the idiot saw me taking them. Then I'd explain to him that I would be happy to testify in any lawsuit any one of his many victims might decide to bring against him, whether for sexual harassment, assault, or damages of any other kind.

    I'd also point out that as an RSO he either knows or can be legally expected to know that his behavior is unprofessional and unsafe. So if someone got injured as a result of his sexual aggressiveness, he would clearly be libel for civil damages (at the very least) for anything and everything from the slightest injury to negligent homicide.

    And that doesn't even consider any interest the police might take after a fatal shooting incident.

    Oh, and the second time, if there was one? He'd leave the premises--either walking or in a set of drag marks.

    Some days, ya just gotta say "Not on my watch!"
     
  10. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    You make great points as always @DKR, I was also taught by family members how to shoot. And yes I did offer, see post #1, I spent my range time recovering these 2 women as shooters and not someone who had to put up with this crap.
     
  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    The RSO is a representative of the range and it's his responsibility to ensure more than just safety practices are followed. A credible complaint should be reason for a suspension of the offender and multiple credible complaints should be enough for expulsion - obviously the range board required for these actions. The RSO should be able to tell the offender to go home and then the range board should be contacted.
     
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  12. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I'll add that if I were made aware of unwanted frottage. After confirming with the lady I would intervene without question bringing in the RSO, situationally during my confrontation or later. I will absolutely not tolerate that kind of behavior.
     
    tacmotusn, chelloveck, Ganado and 3 others like this.
  13. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    It doesn’t just happen to new female shooters and it also is not limited to men who are guests of the gun ranges. Employees of the range can also be offenders. Some RSO’s will allow their slimy co-worker free-range. When it happens, put you gun down and step away from the predator. Let them know you do not need help. When they come back for a second round, empty your weapon, secure it then leave. Never go back.

    The only solution I have heard is that a woman should attend Ladies Night. That was created for women and a great way not to get harassed.
     
  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    I'm not sure I understand the problem.
    You are on a firing range with a loaded weapon.
    Accidental discharges happen all the time. It sure would be unfortunate if the Lady was so startled by the perv that she spun around, forgetting that her finger was on the trigger and accidentally shot him in the dick.
    Yeah, that would be bad.[angel]
     
    tacmotusn, Oddcaliber, Ganado and 6 others like this.
  15. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I would think that this would be the one place having security cameras would be prominent . However ranges I've been to discourage the use of cameras .
    Usually if the cameras are obvious, people behave better.
    I have taught several women to shoot and never needed to get in contact,, except with my wife of course .
     
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  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Having been a Professional shooter and trainer, I know for a fact that there is absolutely no reason what so ever to have that kind of physical contact with a new shooter! There is absolutely no reason for a dude to be close enough to be running his junk on a ladies ass, and besides the dangerous potential of that behavior, it's also a very bad situation for the Range owners and the other RSOs! I would have a serious sit down with the owner(s) and make certain that they know things are unaccetable with the RSOs and that if changes are not made soonest, the NRA will be getting involved and certifications reviewed, and or removed!
    Bottom line, a Gentleman should be expected to behave as such, and as a representive of a business, he should be held to a higher standard of his profession both for him self and the business concern he represents!
    If some dude was rubbing his dick on my wife, he would be loosing the use of said effected body part permentally, there is no reason for that sort of thing at all and that is most definalty sexual harassment!
     
    Tully Mars, Ganado, Motomom34 and 3 others like this.
  17. runswithdogs

    runswithdogs Monkey+++

    A very loud “if you try to rub yer tiny wee dick up agains me one more time, there gonna have to wait till you take a crap to see if there’s anything left to glue back on.....” (making sure Eveyone else hears you)

    If it happened again... well...I recommend gorilla glue.....:cautious:
     
  18. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I also want to point out that ANYTIME a male touches a female ANYWHERE (this includes hands and arms) to assist her he MUST ask for her permission first. This includes intimate partners since a loaded weapon may be involved.
     
  19. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    All I can say is I have never needed to touch a woman other than her hands and very little of that to instruct shooting hold and hand position, there are sight charts that give a visual of what the sight picture should look like and wrong sight picture . Most women can catch on faster than most men and are better at shooting because they come into it without preconceived ideas. after the basics all they have to do is practice safe loading unloading ......

    I have not worked at a range for a long long time but after this I will not be instructing anyone, they can watch youtube, instruction, because close proximity to anyone gives them an opening to say you did something or trained them with improper procedures if at a later date they harm or kill someone,no one takes responsibility We have come to that place where no good deed goes unpunished and there is nothing except keeping to yourself with video to prove it. I have not gone to a range in years too much control a double tap is considered rapid fire and a lot of other B.S. like you cannot pick up your brass and buy the hour and per gun.
     
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  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    If I was witnessing that behavior nothing unless the woman was in clear distress. Sadly, it is her issue to work out. I hate writing that but it is a learning experience for her. Sadly, this happens and happens often. The victim needs to know that and avoid situations and places like that. Best option for ladies is to find a family owned range, better if half is owned by a female. Family run places have a different vibe, their employees are vested in the success of the place.

    I think the question being, is it the RSO's job to make sure the patrons are not uncomfortable? Or is their job to make sure everyone is being safe and rules are being observed. Refraining from sexually harassing other customers is not in the paperwork you sign before entering. Sadly, people expect people to behave properly but it doesn't happen. Probably why there is such a large single female population.
     
  1. Coyote Ridge
  2. Coyote Ridge
  3. 3M-TA3
  4. Yard Dart
  5. Asia-Off-Grid
  6. Motomom34
  7. Bishop
  8. wideym
  9. Ganado
  10. Lancer
  11. HK_User
  12. Yard Dart
  13. Tully Mars
  14. Unique
  15. Witch Doctor 01
    [ATTACH] [IMG]
    Thread by: Witch Doctor 01, Apr 2, 2017, 17 replies, in forum: Firearms
  16. Yard Dart
  17. stg58
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  19. T. Riley
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