Re-thinking the role of PM's post SHTF

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by Minuteman, Apr 3, 2012.


  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Bingo!

    Just as with all investments you need a plan of when to sell and when to hold.

    There will be a point were FRNs have "just become worthless" as the system crashes yet some will still have excess goods of their own that they will consider trading for PMs. A bit later barter for food stuff and real survival items will be King.

    Another event will happen, if or when, a recovery starts.

    This will be another time to have PMs and a real need for them nation wide as a way to increase trade from more distant locations.

    It's all about doing it in the best time frame.

    Just like any investment.
     
    VisuTrac likes this.
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Hey, it's not SHTF yet.

    Just remember, PM's are not for everyone in every situation.
    If you like me, live in a rural area but not to far from civilization, you WILL find pawn brokers, coin dealers, cash for gold, and others on craigslist and ebay that are willing to buy and sell PM's.

    The SHTF has not hit yet. PM's are currently 'valuable' being that people are willing to trade PM's for FRN's or hard assets like land, vehicles, animals.

    Post shtf, I'm sure your local tax assessor would be more than willing to take some silver as opposed to a couple of chickens or pig for the tax bill.

    But people may be willing to take barter items more readily than PM's. It's all about who is around you.

    As some one had mentioned before, there are test kits for silver, gold and industry standards for calculating if something is solid gold or a certain Karat weight. Those willing to accept payment in PM's will know real from fake.

    If you can't determine the difference, I'd advise steering away from PM's post shtf. with one caveat, US silver quarters,dimes minted in 1964 and before. I feel that a couple rolls of those may be prudent to have hanging around. but that is just me. I excluded halves and dollars as some of those have 'Numismatic value' or rarity and that has led to some forgery by our friendly chinese over the past few years. I'd steer clear of thoses. Also if someone tries to convince you that a rare coin is worth more, think about it. Post SHTF no one is going to care if there are only 10 in the world, at best they are just going to consider how much silver is in it. You can't eat silver (unless it's colloidal) and worse yet is you can't eat rare or unique.

    Anyway, should you have PM's? maybe, depends on your trading network, I'd suggest at least some for the tax man.

    Currently, If I were to sell something or get paid for service rendered. I'm not taking payment in Aspirin, Cipro, taters, corn, beans nor rice. I will however take:
    Precious Metals:
    Gold (Canadian maple leafs or American gold eagles)
    Silver (Canadian maple leafs, American silver eagles, 90% US coinage and serialized assayed bars/rounds from certain manufactures)
    Selected Fiat currencies:
    US FRN's
    Canadian Dollars
    Australian Dollars
    Euros

    Why do I accept these. Easy, I can convert them to other 'Currencies' amongst my Pre-The world has gone to hell in a hand basket' trading network.

    You do currently have a network in place for trade in the future right?

    Ok you got me, I'll probably accept payment of a Horse, Cow or pig too but man it's going to be a lot easier to get a roll of Mercury dimes in my pocket than a pig.

    I don't look at PM's as barter but as a better form of money for times of transition between currencies or going from old to new currency denominations.

    And yes, your mileage will vary greatly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
    Motomom34 and HK_User like this.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I forgot to mention, That i will also accept British Pounds and running motorcycles for certain trades. (but never firearms nor ammo ;) )
     
    mysterymet likes this.
  4. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    No doubt and you can add booze or meds to my list of what not to exchange either direction..

    I wondered why some were so concerned about "Proofing" PMs for a barter trade.

    After all worst case you end up with fish weights.

    OTOH, trade for a double loaded .308 or 45acp and use it in a weapon and you end up, at best, missing some of your body parts.

    I note also that the prospect "To Trade" for Meds was also a TU possibility in my world.

    Should someone use empty capsule, add something harmful, call it an antibioitic that someone needs and then takes for an illness. Instant death and then the bad traders can just walk in and take what's left.

    Yes boys and girls, both has happened, US used C4 in "lost/captured/supply drops" of ammo in Nam. One in four rounds were HOT loads.

    WW2 our own troops, while in prison camps, traded chalk dust pressed into pills to Asian troops

    Best to rethink BARTER in bad times.
     
  5. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    This might sound stupid but in a post SHITF "copper pennies" are likley to become common barter item. They have a true value unlike paper money and its not likley to run in to "fakes".
    Gold has alaways been a form of international currency but is no so over priced that usable coinage is no longer practicle. Would you trade any gold coin made for a chicken? Not likely, however 200 copper pennies might get you that chicken.

    I will say that chrisp 100$ frn notes have been eaisy to exchaige in every country Ive been 3rd worl or modern.
     
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Don't forget that our 5 cent piece still has an above coinage value in the make up.

    Metal Composition: 75% Copper - 25% Nickel
     
    bgner and larryinalabama like this.
  7. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Very few of us can tell the value of PMs or test for authenticity. I would not trade anything for PMs in a SHTF scenario. I can not eat them nor depend on their worth. I do have a sizable store of "pocket change" that I have been saving since 1965. My wife thinks I am crazy and maybe I am but I can trade dimes/quarters/etc most anywhere for most anything. Barter items are IMO, much more valuable to the every day man. "A country boy can survive" because he can trade a fur for that "tater" you raised.
     
    larryinalabama likes this.
  8. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Thankfully this isn't SHTF time yet.
    for now you can use Fiat, PM's or barter to get what you need.
    After? Probably barter for most.

    I still think that the county Tax collectors would take pre 1965 coinage to pay taxes. That is if the county government still exists. One never knows.
     
    larryinalabama likes this.
  9. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    Italian Green aka Project Eldest Son. Awesome.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son
     
  10. Silversnake

    Silversnake Silverback

    Actually, someone could make an arguement having some Italian Green items on hand may be a good thing if SHTF.
     
  11. TwoCrows

    TwoCrows Monkey++

    At the very least as a post death boobytrap for if you are killed for your property.
     
    Cruisin Sloth likes this.
  12. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine The Plumber Founding Member

    I believe that iron products, carbon and/or galvanized steel piping, sheet metal and other type of metal products would have more value during a SHTF scenario than gold/silver bars.

    However, most coins would have worth but not as money. Coins could be heated and annealed allowing them to be bent/folded easier and made into a improvised weapon and/or digging tool, if needed.
     
    Ganado likes this.
  13. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    There is the crux of the issue. I know a US dime when I see it. I know a silver dime when I see it and can tell if it has ben shaved.

    For gold or foreign coins, few in the US have ever seen a gold coin, let alone know how to tell if it is 'real' or not.

    You are correct, we keep some silver half dollars and a few cartwheels, but to actually use one is a transaction - unless the person you are dealing with is actively looking for silver, a dime is just a dime, if you know what I mean.
     
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    If it's a purely economic shtf then you are all set if you put a large portion of your retirement savings is in PM.
    In economic shtf all the food and ammo you hord isn't going to help pay the bills.
    During the hight of the last recession people were desperately trying to sell off their guns for maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of retail so they could pay their bills. At the same time gold and silver were at unprecedented highs.
    You won't have to buy food at least. But you still figure out how to keep a roof over you and your preps. Unless you were planning on riding things out in a van down by the river...

    I like PM because I control it. If I want to move some money around it doesn't cost me anything unless I sell at a loss which is unlikely. If I want to cash it out it doesn't cost me anything. Unless I sell at a loss.
    If you have traditional retirement type accounts say you want to barrow money from it you will pay a loan origination fee and interest (unless you have the government employee TSP program) or if you withdraw early a 20% or more penalty plus that money will be taxed as income. TSP included this time.
    Edit: if you have TSP then what ever amount you barrow, you have no more than 10 months to pay it back. What doesn't get paid back is considered a withdrawal.

    If all you do is hordes guns ammo, food and water then you are more or less completely unprepared for economic shtf.
    The only exception to that rule is if everything is paid off and you live way out on the middle of nowhere. I know that's the exception to the rule.

    I think the main reason a lot of people don't like PM is because the survivalist types don't really push them and the PM dealers cater to different clientele. They just usually don't advertise or sponsor the survival prep community.
    If APMEX, pine hurst, silver towne, liberty and a few others started sponsoring some survival or prepper type radio shows I guarantee PM would all of a sudden become important.

    Also you have to plan for what if nothing happens. What if all you did was hord guns and food for 50 years and now you are getting too old to work and support your self and getting weaker, health is in decline. You're so old if shtf your a gonner as soon as you get a cold or run out of meds, don't have access to health care. You have a bunch of old or expired food no one will want to buy, a collection of obsolete weapons and dusty dungy old ammo no one will want. That all smells like old people or worse.
    You die and leave a bunch of crap for your kids to get rid of or have to go to a home and have a bunch of crap for them to deal with. Yes I speak from experience on this subject and it sucks.

    The key is balance and diversification.

    Also don't buy now, prices are too high IMO.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    Cruisin Sloth and Ganado like this.
  15. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    The reason for the PMs is that when this economy dumps, you need something to buy the next coin that comes along.
     
    Ganado likes this.
  16. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Corn comes in a jug and tobacco in a pouch. Both have been the most sought after items in America ever since the Europeans learned that Sarsaparilla isn't the best cure for venereal disease.
     
    Ganado likes this.
  17. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Thanks for highlighting this post again it's a good one.

    Just like any investment, preps, barter items and PM'S the exit strategy is everything.
    PM's are no good if you don't have food and can't find anyone who will trade, but you need PM if the economy tanks AND you have planned your exit strategy right.

    I don't go to Mexico ot south America anymore without packing a carton of Marlboros. I get thru customs much faster and I am always missing one carton when I come out the other side. Have to know your market. It's the cost of doing business.

    I realize this is an older post so I winder how you would get thru customs know with gold. Silver I can see but gold..... ? not so sure in today's markets. @minutemen do you have trouble with customers much?
     
  18. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I think the worst thing you could possibly barter with is ammo.
    I have been through customs lots of times with silver and gold. What do you want to know?
     
  19. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Without revealing too much. Hm do you carry? Anything over 10k cash has to be disclosed and I was wondering if that applied to gold
     
  20. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Never any where near 10k.
    If I were staying in the US I would not move it by air.
    I believe it changed under 0bama, it used to be currency, now it's 10k in "merchandise".
     
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