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recomended beginers arsenal

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by evilgijoe88, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. evilgijoe88

    evilgijoe88 Monkey+++

    Recently my friend asked me what he would need as a basic beginners armament. as he didnt have much experience with weapons, other than a .22 when he was younger, i recommended the following: defense/ home protection .38 revolver, hunting/game birds 20 gauge shot gun( i know the 12 is more available and manly, but he hasnt fired one before) and the all round tube fed .22.around here a tube fed .22 and a 20 gauge are available for less than 60 each (i'll be along with him to check that the weapon is at least not a death trap)the revolver would be ordered by an FFL holder and cost him about 180 after shipping.im trying to get him the most rounded out starter package that he can afford to practice with, while it wont fail easily.his goal is less than 450, any areas that i have missed pleas let me know,also alternate sugestions would be helpful.....either way we got another one[beer]
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    I guess, for my nickle's worth, that you are pretty close with your recommendations. I'd suggest two changes, tho'. Make the 38 a 357, in which he can use 38s until he has some thoro practicing. A good DA revolver is a most excellent choice for starting pistolcraft. Then, I think I would still go with a 12 gage, say an 870, and start him with target loads. Trap loads do NOT hurt and should not induce a flinch. The key, as always, if he is serious about this, practice will make things a lot easier to see. Further, I would not stint bux on the revolver, a bad one is truly going to turn him off, not to mention endangerment if it can't be operated reliably and efficiently in time of need. (Meaning the 450 budget for three guns is pushing the envelop pretty hard. Maybe start with just one, and add to it as budget allows. Better confidence with one than sloppy with too many.)

    I could be way off base here, and I'm sure I'll get corrected by the members, if not chastised extensively, BUT: I think starting off with one is the way to fly, simply from a safety standpoint, and I think the 22 is best for that. It is substantially more difficult to get practice with a shottie that is meaningful until the basics of marksmanship and safety are engrained. IMHO anyway. And moreover, a pistol is more conducive to safety errors as well. Again, IMHO.

    Good job on the conversion, another sheepdog in the making. [beer]
  3. evilgijoe88

    evilgijoe88 Monkey+++

    well the 450 isnt for 3 guns, its what he currently has available to him.the revolvers are from all reports good quality old detective weapons that were surplussed.and the reason i recommended tube fed over a 1022 is just that he wont have to get more mags, im just trying to keep it as simple as possible. Ghrit, perhaps a decent 357 would be a good boon for him, since it allows the 2 different cartridge capability. i hadn't even thought of that, use one for comfort and build confidence. thanks for the feedback.
  4. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    This'll be a long thread :)

    You'll get 100+ opinions... don't forget that while (for instance) my opinion may vary condiderably from (say) EL's, and his from Quigly's, etc.... there is no single best answer and most of the opinions you'll get will be valid, just varying on personal taste.

    What "bases" is he wanting to cover? Any hunting involved other than birds? Deer, Elk? I see you're in Oregon, so you wont have to use a slug shotgun for them. Is he wanting a post SHTF "whoopass" gun?

    I'm all behind you on the 38 revolver... I love 'em. Good solid foundation to start a collection... I'm with Ghrit though, make it a 357.

    On the shotgun, I'm assuming that you're talking a single shot here (by the price)?

    IMO, the 20 ga is ok, but don't forget that you can buy cheap, light loads for the 12 that won't kick any harder than the 20... percieved recoil for the 12 can even be lighter due to the extra weight of the gun itself.

    And also on the shotty, he may want to go ahead and jump into the "pump" realm for just a little more money, as the fun and utility of the single is going to be limited, and he'll probably end up trading it out or selling it for a pump or auto eventually anyway. I'm with Ghrit on the 870 as well... fine, durable pumps. A Mossberg can sometimes get you by cheaper.

    IMO, everybody needs....
    1) Handgun on the nightstand
    2) Handgun for carrying
    3) Longarm for whatever you want to hunt (could turn into several different guns)
    4) Longarm for if the world goes to hell and you have to smoke some people. (can possibly also serve as one of the hunting weapons).
    5) Something that's cheap to shoot and a lot of fun, and can help teach other people and kids how to shoot (22 rifle stands out here).

    Can't really go much farther without clearly defined goals for what he wants to accomplish.
  5. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    One quick thought on the 22.......

    I like tube feed 22's, I've got an old Marlin semi and I grew up shooting a Marlin lever action 22... excellent rifles.

    If I were starting from scratch, I'd be tempted to go the 1022 route though. Not expensive, very durable, and can be upgraded as you go along into either an excellent little small game/varmint hunter or a psuedo-assault weapon with hi-cap mags and a folding stock.

    Either choice would be perfectly good really.
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    IMHO you did him a good turn .38 special is perfectly adequate for personal defense, also IMHO a DA revolver is a perfect choice for an inexperienced shooter, the20 ga will do for home defense also, just can't carry it everywhere. Tube fed .22will get used constantly , hunting/plinking...If he's joining a militia he'll want and need more.
    Of course I'm the rare monkey who believes the chances of being assaulted by mutant ZOMBIE bikers are pretty slim...
  7. sheen_estevez

    sheen_estevez Monkey+++

    I've had a marlin tube fed .22 since I was about 9 still love that gun. Agree with the .357. don't have one myself but my best friend had 2 and when we were young bucks we shot .38 ammo through them all the time.
    For the shotgun I would also agree with most, go with the 12 gauge, will end up moving up to that at some point anyway.
  8. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    I'll push for the 12ga Very versitile from quail to deer and bear defense. With frangable rounds, door lock/hinge openers. Cheap for around $250 you can get the mossberg 500 with 2 barrels shortie 18.5" and 26" hunting. Once you get used to the recoil, moving to other calibers even big calibers isn't so much of a leap. Hard to beat for all around versatility and you have a lot of bases covered with one purchase.

    You can start him off on the shortie aquila rounds then #7 bird shot to acclimate him to recoil.
  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Contrarian. [troll] [booze]All the same interesting. Why 308? Might's well be 577, eh?[lolol] [boozingbuddies]
  11. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    That's just denial.

  12. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Might not be a bad idea. ZOMBIES in popular culture only succumb to head shots. About the only place a single .22 shot will do much stopping are head shots. I see a match there. Vs ZOMBIE hoards .22 would be the only round you can carry enough of to fight through hoards to get to more ammo. Ya just might have stumbled across the perfect anti-ZOMBIE caliber.
  13. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    302 Moved
    besides hollywood the MZB is a euphamism on gunboards for free- fire zone of no question "good" legal "shootings".The ZOMBIE has no rights,the ZOMBIE is always going to kill you(and bring his friends too!)So lethal force is always legal on any ZOMBIE.Neither ZOMBIES nor ZOMBIE situations exist(outside of a full on warzone battlefield) . lethal force is seldom if ever that cut an dried.

    Example 3 low lifes approach and demand yo' wallet,. only one draws a knife. you draw your super "hood smacker acp" with the satin finish and kill mack the knife the other two back pedal, astounded by your deftness in drawing your ccw. I may be wrong but I think you are going away to sleep with bubba in the big house if you kill the two remaning thugs.???? In "ZOMBIES ate my spleen" you open up on all three and cuss yourself for getting close enough to smell the rotting dead man b.o.
    as far as a chosen ZOMBIE weapoan, I like my cricket bat; it never runs dry.
  14. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    From the prices you think you're going to get these guns for it sounds like you want to arm you friend with nothing but used guns , BIG mistake .

    I can see used single shots and even revolvers but when it comes to pumps or semi autos I prefer brand spankin new .

    I have one gun that I bought used that I have had zero problems with and am completely happy with , a Taurus Stainless model 669 357 magnum revolver . You can find one on Gunbroker that is identical to it for $275 if you're interested .

    I don't have a problem with the 20 as your friend may have kids "now or sometime in the future" and it can always be passed down to them when they are ready .

    While my brother had a Marlin Glenfield model 60 22 rimfire and it was a great little rifle I would still prefer a Ruger 10/22 especially if it could be grabbed as a last resort home defense weapon .

    25-30 round RamLine mags are fairly inexpensive and dependable , a much quicker load or reload than a tube fed rifle .

    I would suggest that you suggest to him to build a quality , effective battery that will get the job done and be trouble free . As a matter of fact I would hold off on the 22 all together unless he is doing safety training for young kids or a wife with zero gun expierence at this time .

    If I were building a battery from scratch I would do so in the following order

    1) a Mossberg 500 , I have fired many many hundreds of rounds both hunting and skeet shooting with shotguns

    2) a solid 4 inch barreled 357 revolver , Taurus as their quality is quite good

    3) a 1911 45 acp

    4) a high powered rifle in 308 or 30-06

    After that I would buy more of any of the above as you can never have too many .
  15. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I would also go for the 10/22. Its not al that expensive and is very reliable and can be upgraded if he chooses. He could use just the factory mag that comes with it and if wanted a spare of the same for $10 and have as many rounds as the tube fed then if he wants to later he can get spare mage in whatever size he wants, folding stocks, flash supressors, accurized barrels or anything else he wants to add to it. If he has the tube fed and wants to upgrade the only way is basicly to buy another gun.

    On the shotti I agre that the 20 guage is just fine and more comfortable to shoot. My personal suggestion on that one would be a Charlse Daily pump 20. They run about $200 brand new from Wallmart and I have never had a problem at all with mine. If wanted to go on the cheap with a single shot go with the New England Firearms one since he could order other barrels for it if he wanted to later.

    On the handgun I would say that if you have both a revolver and a semi auto let him shoot both and see which he dose better with. I know Tina cant hit a THING with a revolver but dose pretty well with a semi auto. In the revolver I would say the .357would be the way to go but if he hits better with the semi auto then I would most likely look at the Bersas, either the Thunder .380 that is easy to carry, super reliable and accurate as well as simple to operate or the Firestorm 9mm UC that is similar to the Baby Glock in size, cappacity and build but is single/double action and metal. The .380 is around $200 and the 9mm around $300.

    Then I would also consider adding an SKS. They can be had around $200 or under and are very simple and in a cal good for deffense as well as large game.

    My idea fo a minimum comprehensive battery would be.

    1-.22 for food gathering, inexpensive practice and as a last resort for deffense

    2-shotgun for home defense and versatility of function from diferent loads from small game to bear with slugs

    3-handgun for home defense and carry

    4-centerfire rifle, preferably one in semi auto like the SKS for MZBs and hunting to moderate ranges (inside 150-200 yards) and a bolt rifle for longer range hunting of large game

    I figure with those 5 guns you can cover all your bases pretty well and even without much bargain hunting could do all of them for about $1k or a tad under buying all but the 2 rifles brand new and cheaper if used or bargain hunting. I would also probably go with that as the order of importance since the .22 is cheap enouph to shoot that they are more likely to practice and if they dontpractice enouph to hit what they shoot at then any gun is prety useless. It can also get food and most folks wont walk into the barrel of even a .22 so the .22 with a couple bricks of ammo and knowing how to use it beats all the guns and no knowledge on useing them and a total of 50 rounds of ammo. The shotgun provides the power at closer ranges and versitility. Then if you add a handgun added to it you could handle any situation inside 100 yards short of a full on attack from a fairly large group. Add the rifles and you have the range and firepower to handle anything you train up to.
  16. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    One more thing to add to the list of suggestions. Once you have your gun(s) you need to do one more thing. Know how to use it. Start with a hunter's safety course. After that you have a long but fun road ahead of you in aquiring increasing skill to be able to use that tool in more varied situations.

    A total novice might be able to have a gun point it in the general direction of a badguy and with God's good graces hit the target at point blank. A highly skilled person might be able to hold off and eventualy evade a determined armed group pursuing him. Most of us fall somewhere in between. Difference is just skill with the weapon and skill conducting yourself in the given environment. But you can't ever spend too much time practicing.
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Exactly so, and fits neatly with the scheme of a 22 rifle for training at the outset. Safety is as, or more important than marksmanship, especially for the novice we are considering here. One gun at a time; the order of acquisition is less important than diligent practice with each. Your basic novice (first post sorta established) three gun armory has to be mastered in order, then the real fun of shooting can take serious root. [beer]
    That said, my two cents points to the tube fed 22 for a start. Seems to me that a 10/22 (or other autoloader) allows for spray and pray shooting before mastery of the basics. I'll happily defer to wiser heads on this.

    I'm with Bigo01 on the idea of good quality arms. One thing worth mentioning is that different guns have different "feels". I chose Ruger's GP100 rather than the Taurus simply because it fit my hand better and I can control it with full house loads. There is no substitute for hefting and trying them out ahead of purchase.

    Evilgijoe88 has to take our convert to the gun store, try and buy one gun, then use the rest of his 450frns for practice ammo. The bug will bite firmly. [coffee2]
  18. BigO01

    BigO01 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Excelent point previously overlooked ghrit , despite the fact that most quality revolvers have large selections of aftermarket grips for them the slightest difference between the grip angle "which different grips would rarely change" can make a huge difference in how it Feels to each person .

    Other fine guns that can be found on the used market yet trusted due to their original quality would be the Ruger SP 101 , the Ruger Security Six , and the S&W 586's .

    The bad news is for whatever reason people have gone gaga on the prices of their used guns even the very common ones .

    I have recently seen used Rugers and Smiths on Gunbroker for more than or close to it than a new one will cost me locally .
  19. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I really cannot say that I disagree with what anyone has posted. I think you are right on. We do not know if this individual is going to be a diehard firearms enthusiast, but he wants to start so I say start him off with things that are fun. A semi-auto tube fed or a 10/22 are exactly that. Lots of fun. If you get the chance to take him shooting then introduce him to "gun games." Blow up balloons and put them on a board and play "tic-tac-toe" by shooting the ballons. Shoot cans, fill up gallon jugs with water and have him shoot them, it is quite impressive. Just make it fun. And quit while he is still having fun too. You want to always leave them wanting more. Since he is on the tight budget, I have no problem with the .38 if he can get a good used one for that price. Get him some light loads to practice with, and some not so light HP ones for self defense. Since that $450 budget is also probably going to include ammo and magazines, I could see where it could be spent on the .38 revolver and the .22 with ammo for both. As far as the shotty, I would rather have a 12 gauge because of the versatility, but if you can find a 20 gauge cheap enough it will be just fine. I remember buying a used shotgun once for $20. I have both the Mossy 500 and a Tactical 870, and I much prefer the 870. Although price has to be considered. There are deals out there, but I would focus on getting the gentleman really interested in shooting, and that is where the light .22 and .38 comes into play. They are fun to shoot.

    I do disagree on the .22 being the ultimate zombie round, I think the load is a little light for optimum cranial penetration and implosion, especially on the more recent "living dead" who have not suffered advanced stages of decomposition. In other words I think the .22 is great if you have a secure, elevated platform in a target rich environment where the targets are not returning fire, but if you are clearing a house foraging for food and eliminating threats I do not want to rely upon a .22 rimfire. I think the shotgun is better for CQB, and the AR better overall.

    Tactical 870 12 Gauge. Come Get Some!
    <hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1">

    870 Tactical 1 (Medium).
  20. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Come Get Some!

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