Recommendations for AR type rifle/carbine

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Bandit99, Feb 9, 2016.


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  1. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    @Yard Dart
    I don't consider my toys as part of my prepping. If I did, a couple (one for each of us) would be plenty. I enjoy the shooting sports and to me, the toys aren't part of prepping. They are a continuation of what I enjoy since I was 9 y/o.
    The safe has been filled for years and again prepping had nothing to do with it. In fact the safe is newer than most of its contents.
    Years ago, prepping was a lot simpler or to get by when a mother nature disrupted my life. Times change and for a couple of decades, I see it differently; a lot differently.

    When I first started prepping, long term food was in a surplus military can and then MREs. Now we have better long term food. However, it hasn't been around as long as I have. We have heirloom seeds, what I used to plant wasn't heirloom; however, it was the same as heirloom.
     
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  2. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Agreed Tkka... no disagreement from me at all.
    What I said was more geared to the newer members/preppers....and the focus needed to be better joined to the idea of being better ready for SHTF, not the seasoned vet's......
    At this stage, we just have hoarding problems with our safe's contents. Speaking of that, I have to go fishing soon..... :D
     
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  3. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    @Yard Dart
    I kinda knew that already. ;)

    I figured you were aiming it at newer folks.. As I said in my first post, I'm an accuracy addict. To loosely define that, I enjoy and can see the difference between a less than .5 MOA and a 1 MOA AR. Cleaning isn't an issue here for better accuracy.

    As most people think about SHTF; let's put accuracy into SHTF terms. Find a table and move one's head until one can see above it and measure the distance. Draw a head on a piece of paper and from the top of the head draw a line at the same distance. Set it out at 200 meters and hit what is above the line. That is what a bad guy will offer as he is looking at you after SHTF. Can you hit it is the question.

    To those who can't; the bad guy is free to assess your perimeter in relative safety. To those who can, his buddies will decide there are better places to check out.

    Surviving SHTF requires having food and being around to eat it. :D
     
  4. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Before you spend the cash, put some thought in the tool you are going to purchase and how you think you might use it. The question is not DI vs piston, its how it should be configured to suit your needs. That will drive all your other choices. The questions that come to mind are:
    • What ranges do you anticipate using the rifle? Short, intermediate, or long?
    • How much weight including optics, sights, spare mags, bipods, etc. are you able and willing to carry?
    • Will others use this rifle? Do you need to be able to adjust length of pull or do you need to make compromises in fixed components including grips so that everybody can use it?
    • If others may need to use this rifle, are the optics able to be used by everybody? Red dots and holographics become unusable red smears to anyone with astigmatism where prismatics serve the same purpose but are crisp and sharp to the same people.
    In the $1700 range Id be looking at two rifles instead of one. Two people are far more effective than one and you have instant redundancy, not that you should forget spare parts. This can easily be done with DI or piston rifles. You might even consider one set up for close quarters and one for intermediate range for versatility. Remember two is one and one is none...

    Triggers - as has been said above by all means put some of that money in good triggers.

    Briefly touching on the great piston vs DI debate the answer is they both work great. I used pistons in my builds because I got a great deal on some Adams kits. I'm extremely happy with them and yes they are reliable and easy to clean. If I hadn't gotten the deal and went DI as planned Id still be just as happy and they would still be just as reliable. Ill never understand why people get so emotional on this subject as it is simply a design choice and nothing more.
     
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  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Likewise on the idea of two. In fact, for that range, two is very possible with enough left over for practice ammo.
     
  6. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Yard Dart,
    Water is good. I have a cistern of 1500 gallons which is filled twice a day by the well pump or I can go out there and turn the pump on.

    Food is okay. I probably got, at least a month worth of freeze-dried and at least 2 more months of cans and packaged. This does not count the wife's canned goods of fruits and vegetables...I had to spend the first week we got here digging a garden and securing the area but she cans everything and I've just been inform that the garden will be expanded this year....oh swell, can't wait to do that...:):)

    Emergency power sucks and I will ratify that this Spring. I have another post where I got tips, after action reports and mind melded to obtain lessons learned. It will be a dual fuel, propane & gas, generator hooked into mains probably via a sub panel. Costs won't be too bad, think about a $1000 and since we had 4 power outages this winter it will be worth it if nothing else for the peace of mind.

    Security...the place cannot be defended - period. The entire area cannot - period. Best I can do is to ensure everyone is trained and armed with a good weapon, has plenty of ammo and see if I can get neighbors to assist in area security. Currently, I have enough handguns but need to purchase a 9mm with has high-capacity magazine for wife. The Glock doesn't fit her hand so well and the Kahr P9 (only holds 8 round) is really difficult for her to rack the slide. I also have a 12 gauge 887 Remington shotgun with about 200 loads of 00.

    We have Propane 250 gallon tank which fuels the cooking stove and fireplace which can warm entire house (it's a small house as only just the 2 of us). I keep the tank full, never below 50% (remember maximum is 80%). I wish it was bigger but... I really want to get a small wood cooking stove and put it in the garage. I got so much wood I don't know what to do with it. Gave away lots of cords last year...kept 2 for emergency and burned a bit in the fire pit for New Years.

    Medical...I am big on this and have a huge medical supply to include, Israel bandages, Quiklots, and lots of antibiotics. I got them in Central Asia (Russian or Indian) and the wife will be bringing more back this Summer; I'm going to give her a shopping list. One can bring 90 days worth of any medicine into the states legally...frankly, Custom could care less as long as it's not drug related. And, over there I do not need doctor's permission to purchase them just walk in and buy what I want whatever I want except, of course, hard narcotics like Morphine or Demerol and no pain killers, need a Doc for those...I think I actually might be able to purchase Codeine, not sure about that, probably not.

    So...yeah, I can purchase a rifle. I still want to pick up more dried food and I still do not have all the basics like enough rice, beans, yeast but did pick up sugar, salt and some other stuff this week on sale.

    Rick
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
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  7. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    3M-TA3 and Ghrit,
    "Likewise on the idea of two. In fact, for that range, two is very possible..."
    This is exactly why I thought I would throw this out here for a few days but I too believe for around $2000 one could get two good rifles and the wife could then have her own. She likes to shoot the Ruger 10/22 and she's good, just needs practice.
     
  8. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    My advice would be to take here to the gun shop/range, and let her find something she likes, and buy it for her.

    Seriously, do you have any of the 25 rounders for that 10/22?
     
  9. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Hi Ax!,
    Yes, I do. I even have a 50 that I purchased on accident thinking it was a 25 :):). I was rushed as had a bit of an emergency and didn't realize it until I got it home. I kept it, but not sure why because seldom use it. My 10/22 is a nice little rifle, I got the weatherize version, stuck a 4x-9x Bushnell scope on it that got on sale. It's a nice little rifle. I do have one concern as it sure seems I get a lot more misfires from the .22 ammo than I did as a kid, maybe my memory is going or maybe they are making the stuff will less quality control now days.

    All,
    I read everything everyone sent and touch base with a buddy who is a gunsmith and it really does appears that there isn't much of a reason to spend the extra cash for Piston and more reasons to go with the DI system. So, we're calling around today. I do want the Wylde as Tikka suggested, that seems to me to be a given.

    @3M-TA3,
    "unusable red smears to anyone with astigmatism where prismatic serve the same purpose but are crisp and sharp to the same people."
    More good info that I didn't know and will use...and I do have astigmatism. Thanks!

    Rick
     
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  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    @RickR make sure you look through any optic you want to use before you buy it. That used to be a given when all we had were brick and mortar stores. One other nice thing about a prismatic is that if the battery fails you still have an etched reticle, then again the new AimPoints have such a long battery life that you may never need to replace it.
     
  11. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    And EO Tech did a FULL RECALL recently...
     
  12. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    I have an astigmatism and us glasses and use the optics like Aimpoint Comps (zero mag)just fine. I have the 2 mil dot version. You love the fact that using the right BUIS, they will co-wintess with the red dot
     
  13. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    That's another great point to consider with a low power optic, especially one that is dependent on a battery - though like I said above a new Aimpoint could well outlast you before you need to replace the battery. Quite a few red dots and prismatics offer a full or 2/3 co witness with standard height BUIS.
     
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  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    For 2K you can easily get two decent quality rifles and mid range optics. As I said earlier, do you want less than .5 MOA or a bit greater than 1 MOA. If you buy M193 or M855 do not expect that degree of accuracy.
    FYI: if you plan to buy a silencer, so far piston systems aren't too good for them.

    IMO, 2 rifles are easily adequate if you buy some parts for them. Also, 2 rifles and 2 pistols are even better.

    @3M-TA3
    The 6,8 SPC2 is a nice intermediate round; however, ammunition is not as common as 5,56. However, I still like it right well. Almost as accurate as the 6,5 and close to the terminal ballistics of the 7mm. Remington, SOCOM and the AMT hit a home run.

    Range is relative to where you live. Around here, it is forested so 5,56 is more than adequate. That being said, the 7,62N will turn cover into mere concealment.
     
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  15. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    @Tikka
    "Range is relative to where you live. Around here, it is forested so 5,56 is more than adequate. That being said, the 7,62N will turn cover into mere concealment"
    That is a hell'va good point as around here it is all forest...geez, and I thought I had least made my mind up on what caliber...:):)

    All,
    So, I went to the biggest vendor in the area. They had at least 50 ARs. He told me he never heard of the Wylde chamber which I thought strange. He showed me a Daniel Defense for about $1400 which seemed nice as did the Ruger as did all the others...to include the SCAR which was a shocking $2600. I also called about a PWS (still like them because they are made here and can't find anyone to say a bad thing about them) and if I go with the DI version the price drops $300 to $1400. I will call tomorrow a place where I can shoot a few.

    Question: So, what would it cost to build some equal to or better than a DI version PWS that costs off the shelf $1475? $1000, less?

    Rick
     
  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    @RickR
    7,62N is pricey stuff. The days of cheap good "stuff" Hert, SA, Radway Green, LC and Port etc. are gone. As I'm a small group type; I'm not much for Russian.
    An interesting point, a lot of European 7,62N has a steel jacket; so it fragments.

    As a lot of ARs have a Wylde chamber, if he never heard of one he doesn't read the advertising of what he is selling. In plain English, a lot of FFLs own a business and others know what they are selling.

    Personally, I buy online and pay a local FFL $25 to receive it; if no CCW he runs the NICS also.
    Once you know prices from Discount Guns for Sale - Buds Gun Shop, then GunsAmerica.com and Gunbroker.com can be a good source also.

    7,62N or AR10s cost more to buy and to shoot; so in many ways 5,56 has an advantage. A triple combat load for 5,56 is a lot lighter also.

    7,62N FYI:
    Fulton Armory: What's the Difference between .308 Winchester & 7.62x51mm NATO?
    .308 Winchester vs. 7.62x51mm NATO

    Building an AR is pretty simple. When you add the equal to a high end AR, it gets more expensive.

    Firearms skills go stale faster than a slice of bread laying out.
     
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Less, especially for a journeyman rifle. Assuming a finished lower, an off the cuff SWAG would be a solid rifle for less than 700 not including optics or accessorizing.
     
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  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    And all of those prices beat what I am shooting. Any of you buy .45LC 250gr lately?
     
  19. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    All,
    It looks like I might not be able to purchase a PWS for a while because it appears that they are making changes to there new version 'MOD 2' and everything is back ordered.

    Now, I looked at very nice Daniel Defense M4V1 today for the same price as the PWS, $1400. I would like opinions on both and you can be forthright and say which you would purchase. The DDM4 wasn't in the Wylde chamber now that I think of it but...

    Rick
     
  20. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    RR

    Here is another option as well. Buy 2 lowers amd parts kits and just add these uppers (complete for $299 )
    AR-Stoner AR-15 A3 Upper Receiver Assembly 5.56x45mm NATO 16 Barrel

    Shoot the hell out of them, then during that time shop for a more custom upper, rail front sight....

    Then you can have a selection of uppers: say a 20 inch and a ACOG for LR shooting and the 16 icners for CQB / everyday shooting. Many dofferent uppers here as well including piston variants 223 Remington & 5.56x45mm NATO- MidwayUSA

    I built a couple 2 years ago and bought these uppers in 20 and 18 inch. Many barrel styles to choose from as well as length
    R GUNS 20'' FLUTED A3 UPPER ASSEMBLY - RGuns

    20" - Fluted Barrel Archives - RGuns
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
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