Reflex Sight on an AR.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by jim2, Jan 2, 2011.


  1. jim2

    jim2 Monkey+++

    How far can a good shot hit with this setup or a red dot scope. I've heard if one goes top end with an ACOG that 600M is possible. What can be done with reflex or red dot sights?

    jim
     
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    The thing about a sight of this type as opposed to crosshairs for long distance seems to be the MOA coverage specs for 100 yards total, times distance of the shot. If the red dot is 2 moa, then having a red dot that covers 12 inches of a man or beast, may allow adequate placement to make an accurate shot. However a red dot scope with a 4 moa would be wider than a mans torso or a deers at 600 yards. Do you see the possible problems? I am not trying to steer you away from them. These scopes have changed a lot since I ever looked at them seriously. I believe that some now have both a red dot and cross hairs that can be turned on or shifted to for certain situations such as this. Others here will probably have more current info. Hopefully they will jump in and post. I think the MOA spec at 100 yards is a valid consideration you should look at in making your decision.
     
  3. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

  4. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    From what I understand, the reflex and red dot sights are for quick target acquisition -- you are close to your target. You have an advantage finding your target quickly over, say, iron sights; that 1/2 second in combat could mean surviving a close-quarters battle. These need only a spot (usually 4 MOA) to quickly put on the target (possibly w/o fully shouldering your weapon).

    The ACOG has a different use with its larger magnification and "1 MOA" reticle; you won't use these so often to clear a house, but will be further away for combat. Probably these are better for hunting, unless you plan to jump into a pack of ferral hogs :^)
     
  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    damnit, .... where was the spew alert. I really wasn't expecting to see Brokor dissed by a 7 year old....
    .
    I am glad I had a dish towel within reach to quickly wipe them mess.
     
  6. Maxflax

    Maxflax Lightning in a bottle

  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

  8. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I'm so glad you have a sense of humor. My son and I were sitting here that night while I was making the video and he was hammering me with funny insults like "You're from planet hippopotamus butt crack" and I had no voice so I couldn't get back at him.. and I was showing up the icon[monkeyeating] while looking at the forum. He pauses to read something and goes.. "you guys are weird.. and what's that guys' name? brockor? bro...what? yeah, well, you're from monkey poop and he's from planet donkey poop"..

    Sorry for the tangent. back on topic:

    I just wanted to add that the burris I demo'd has rails on top for small red dot sight if you desire.
     
  9. And yet one more option - I run a 3x ACOG on my MGI AR, with a red dot signt on a 45* mount to the right of my glass. One sight for rapid close-up target acquisition, and another magnified sight for longer shots. Works for me.
     
  10. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    what RD are you running. I was thinking of doing a RD on the left rail of my scope but didn't want to get too fancy.
     
  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer


    With a 4 moa dot, about 400M is repeatable.

    With a magnifier, maybe more.

    The issue becomes target identification after 300M.

    I would recommend an Aimpoint. Having used about every name brand one, Aimpoint, Eotech, and Trijicon, I think the Aimpoint is the best. I have seen Eotechs break more than any other. Trijicons have a tendency to wash out without battery power. I haven't used the battery modeled Trijicons. I have only ever seen 1 Aimpoint break in the thousands I have encountered. The batteries last an exceptionally long time on the new ones.

    The trend in point sights is smaller. I concur with this trend. A Comp M2 is so large, you could get more capability in a sight that has near 1x magnification to 5x magnification. If you start comparing the Micro Aimpoint, weight and size tips the scale, depending on your requirements. Check out the micro Aimpoints, the Trijicon RMRs and similar micro sights.

    Weight/size counts.
     
  12. Maxflax

    Maxflax Lightning in a bottle

    Aimpoints cost as much as a good AR15. I just can't justify the price [smsh]
     
  13. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer


    You could pay less, but don't expect the same level of performance. My experience is based on military optics. Perhaps the most abused optics ever. They get drop, slammed around, beat up in trucks made out of metal (not plastic), they rarely get cleaned, rarely have lens covers on them, and rarely get wiped off with a true lens cloth. The level of beating most civilians will never understand (with their coveted hunting scope that they dare not bump for fear of it losing zero). These are optics that literally must survive being dropped out of airplanes.

    If any of the above criteria sounds like something your optic might encounter (like a SHTF scenario), you might be better off forking over the dough or using the dough for ammo to master iron sights. JMHO. When mastered, iron sights can be near as fast as a point sight. There is a reason why I shoot my iron sighted carbine more than any other.
     
  14. Maxflax

    Maxflax Lightning in a bottle

    I'm happy with an Eotech and likely it would outlast me in battle. I have too many weapons to afford Aimpoints for them, anyway and I like to stick with one CQC type reticle

    Besides for me the heads up reflex reticle is far superior to the tiny Aimpoint red dots. I hate red dots
     
  15. Maxflax

    Maxflax Lightning in a bottle

    I'm sure you'll poo poo this one too but it has survived 500 rds of full power rounds on my FN 12 GA, just fine, and is excellent for CQC because unlike small round tubes, it has a wide open heads up design and is very fast

    Would it survive a combat tour with your average grunt, unlikely. Will it do what I will ever need it to do.. probably. If not then I take it off and toss it and use the iron sights

    Target Sports Micro Panoramic Reflex Sight 2-COLOR RETICLE New

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer


    I understand. Balancing weapons and accessories gets tough ;)

    This optic will likely do for a plinker. Mount it, turn the weapon upside down, and drop it from about 2M onto the ground. It's not an unusual drop. One could accomplish the same just jumping over a wall when a sling becomes unslung as they sometime do. Sh*t happens.

    I don't have a beef with less expensive optics, but most would be better served with iron sights when we are talking SHTF. I am sure your Eotech will last just fine. While among military optics, they fail the most, they are a ton better than your NCstar and other chicom clones that are out there. I would not feel the least bit fearful of mounting an Eotech on any of my weapons in confidence.

    I hope I haven't stepped on toes. I am sure some other Mil types will be along to back up and refute my claims ;) I have been called an optic snob before too :)
     
  17. Maxflax

    Maxflax Lightning in a bottle

    Noo problem. At this point that is the optic I will use for my FN, until I can afford an Eotech or other holo. Thing is if it breaks I can probably still aim well enough to get to cover and replace it with another in about 1 minute. At $50 I could have several sighted in spares in my kit for each weapon. Now to up the ante I am looking at the best value in quick detach mounts for these, so the swap would take mere seconds

    I know that that 2 foot drop would not harm an Eotech but again, even though I get them wholesale, I cannot afford one for every weapon, and any holo sight that basically works will make all the difference vs iron sights

    If any of us survive long at all we will have piles of gear and optics to choose from, anyway. I think tactics, location and other preps are a far more important issue

    Another thing most do not consider is how will you sight in a captured optic? I have a laser bore sighter and am buying another for my combat pack, plus extra batteries. Without firing a shot I will at least have it on paper
     
  18. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer


    That's a good point. Especially when ammo is valuable. Learning the proper 25M (for 5.56) and 50M (for 7.62) reduced range zeros are important as well. A lot of firearms can be boresighted by simply looking down the bore with the bolt removed or the upper/bolt removed. A boresighter is a good thing to have. I have a Leupold one that was free with a scope purchase. A laser one is even better.
     
  19. I'm running an iTAC RDS1 - botach Tactical has these for aboiut $80- right now. iTAC RDS1 Red Dot Sight

    At 3 oz. with an 8,000 hour battery life, this is the cheapest I'm willing to go for a sight. Additionally, since I have both it and an ACOG mounted, if one goes down the other is still usable. For that reason also i don't like the idea of mounting a red dot to a scope - both can go down together more easily.

    The RDS has a 4 MOA dot - and while it's not as clear as a $600- T-1, it's worth it to me for this application.
     
  20. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    I went and looked at Reflex and Red Dots today, but all I found was 1X magnification. That doesn't do my old eyes any favors. By the time you attach a magnifier on it it will end up as long as the 3x9x42 11.5 inch Sightron II I have on there now. The Sightron doesn't need batteries either.
     
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