responding to a liberal anti-gun argument

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Tango3, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sorry for all the cut and pastes posts BUT here's another op worth reading from The mental militia FORUM " ( freedomadvocate/author Claire Wolfes' forums...)

    <table border="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td align="left" valign="middle">Arguing with liberals « on: November 23, 2009, 04:59:55 PM »
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    I sent out a mass-mailing about my upcoming CD. I sent it to people who have written me fan letters of my previous work.

    I got snippy anti-gun e-mails back from a few (I've gotten a lot of that lately.)

    Some indie filmmaker said to me:

    Everything about that CD and website is disconcerting and makes me regret giving you the $30 for your book...

    I replied:
    I'm having that effect on a lot of my former fans. lol....

    If you want to elaborate and discuss, I'd be happy to hear it.
    He was open to it, and said

    I think that those of us of the more liberal persuasion are jarred by this sudden expression of an idealogy (sic) that we weren't aware of, and see you (sic) with an assault (sic) rifle makes it even more jarring. Given the craziness of the climate that we're living in, it doesn't surprise me that I'm not alone in having a visceral need to recoil.

    I wrote him:


    I'll explain where I'm at (and how I got here). I don't expect to change your opinion, but I'm interested in your response.

    I've always been a bit of an anarchist, a guy who didn't like following the rules. That's deeply obvious in my "$30 Film School" book, and all the other art that I've created, my whole life. I'm sure that attitude is part of why that book appealed to you. A lot of people like that book who would be bored by "Filmmaking for Dummies", which may contain similar information, but without the punk rock ethic.

    Lately I've seen my country take a turn I don't like. I almost voted for Obama, but couldn't. I really wanted to vote for a younger, black guy, it seemed cool. And the stuffy old Republican running against him didn't seem like he was someone who "represented me." But right before the election, I did a lot of reading and soul searching, and ended up voting Libertarian.

    I've become even much more libertarian since then. I've come to the irrefutable conclusion that it is absolutely immoral for the government to "do what's best for me", to over-tax people and force them into health care, or force them into anything.

    I used to think that trying to get handouts from the government to make art was a good idea. (I even discussed that in "$30 Film School".)

    I now think that's immoral. I wish I could take the book out of circulation because of that, or at least revise it, but I do not own the copyright.

    I am not right-wing, I'm NO-wing. I lean more Republican these days, if I have to make a choice on that tired old left/right continuum, but really, I'm not on that chart. And Republicans tend to want to outlaw drugs, and I think all drugs should be legal, and I don't even do drugs. Also, Republicans tend to care a lot what people do in their bedrooms. I think gays should be able to marry, for instance.

    It's hard for people living on the left/right continuum to wrap their head around the idea that government should be MINIMAL, that it should only protect our borders (with a strong DEFENSIVE, not offensive, military), protect our rights, and maybe take care of interstate highways. Maybe.

    And that a non-regulated, entirely free market should take care of everything else. You all just don't "get it." You'll always say "BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN! THERE OUTTA BE A LAW!"

    Both Democrats and Republicans are identical in this sense.

    I think that the only things that should be illegal are MURDER, RAPE, ASSAULT, THEFT, FRAUD AND TRESPASSING. Making laws against anything else is immoral.

    Most of my life, I believed that Democracy was the perfect form of government. But lately, I've come to feel that Democracy is flawed. Because "51% can tyrannize 49%." That is, If 51% of the population decided that independent filmmaking should be a felony, how would you feel? Not that they would outlaw filmmaking, but I'm sure you can see the relevance in that example.

    And if they did outlaw filmmaking, I'll bet you'd make films anyway, wouldn't you?

    All laws (other than the "big six" I mention above), and all taxes, are enforced by violence, and are therefore immoral.

    Here's what I mean by "enforced by violence": if you refuse to pay a tax or you disobey a law, police will come to your house to arrest you. If you refuse to come out, they will come in and put a gun to your head. If you resist, they will spray the walls with your brain.

    This enforcement by violence is immoral when applied to anything but MURDER, RAPE, ASSAULT, THEFT, FRAUD AND TRESPASSING.

    Which brings us to guns. You fear guns. But my guns are no threat to you, unless you try to harm me or my loved ones. And you wouldn't do that, so you are safe from my guns.

    Just because some idiot uses a gun in an immoral way, it does not affect my guns. Take away his gun. Charge him for murder. Murder is illegal and should be. But don't mess with my gun. Doing so is immoral.

    I'm a totally peace-lovin' guy, and ethical. I help old ladies across the street, help friends and strangers constantly, and I would not hurt a fly that didn't hurt me.

    But I carry a gun with me at all times (which is legal in Wyoming, part of why I left California and moved here). I have guns in my home. Some are handguns that fit in my pocket. Some are rifles that could take out a Nazi at a half-mile.

    I enjoy using guns. I enjoy the history, the mechanics, the science, and the skill challenge. I study guns like I used to study digital filmmaking.

    I love to use guns for target shooting, and my wife and my friends and I do that often.

    Taking a gun away from a peace-lovin' man, or voting in people who would do so, is immoral.

    I used to trust the police to protect me, but by age 45, I've had to call 911 a few times. They took four minutes one time and 20 minutes another time. I got lucky, and the violent thug skulked away.

    But if he hadn't, either time, all the police could have done was take photos of my corpse.

    A gun makes a little old lady equal in strength, and more, to a violent street thug. And me with a gun means you (or anyone else) can't force me to do anything. You have to treat me ethically. You are ethical, but not everyone is. A gun makes me a free man, because it prevents anyone from forcing me to do anything. And that is totally in keeping with my punk rock anarchist ethic in my book that you loved. Doing your own thing, and not being forced to do things you don't like.

    Like I say in my song, "My Gun Keeps You Honest." I don't have to use it to keep you ("you" meaning "the world") honest, I merely have to have it, be skilled at using it, and be willing to use it. Without fail.

    Michael W. Dean

    He replied:
    I appreciate your point of view while disagreeing with it completely.
    <table style="table-layout: fixed;" border="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" class="smalltext" align="left" width="100%">
    </td> </tr><tr> <td class="smalltext" align="left" valign="bottom">
    </td> <td class="smalltext" align="right" valign="bottom"> [​IMG] Logged </td> </tr></tbody></table> <hr class="hrcolor" size="1" width="100%"> Formerly "MichaelNotMike"
  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    And there you have it!
  3. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    "He replied:
    I appreciate your point of view while disagreeing with it completely."

    Yep, his right, pure and simple. He may change his tune when he gets assaulted and robbed, or his wife is raped. :rolleyes:

    Or maybe not.
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