Revisiting the Ten Commandments.

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by duane, Apr 22, 2016.


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  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    That is interesting, I will order that and read it. But a few problems spring immediately to mind. Syriac and Aramaic are similar Semitic languages but not the same. The Aramaic Christ spoke was not the Syriac that is translated in this work. Further the New Testament was written in Greek, while Aramaic was the local dialect of Judea at the time, it was not the common language of letters, trade and academia. The epistles were sent to Churches and people scattered around the Roman world, people who would have no knowledge of an obscure local dialect and thus were written exclusively in the accepted "world" language of Greek.

    I will reserve judgement until I have actually read it but it would seem to be another "version", much like the Gnostic Bible, that tends to support a particular position or belief. I would be hesitant to take it too literal, or authoritative, or proclaim it a more accurate translation.
    But thank you for bringing it to my attention. It will be an interesting study.

    From the wikipedia link it says;

    Lamsa was a strong advocate of a belief traditionally held by part of that Church; that the Aramaic New Testament of the Peshitta was the original source text, and that the Greek texts were translated from it. In support of this, he claimed that Aramaic was the language of Jesus and his disciples.[2] According to Lamsa, "Aramaic was the colloquial and literary language of Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor and Mesopotamia, from the fourth century B. C. to the ninth century A. D."[3] This view of the Assyrian Church regarding the Language of the New Testament is rejected by mainstream scholarship, but Lamsa's views won support among some churches such as The Way.[4]

    Lamsa further claimed that while most of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the original was lost and the present Hebrew version, the Masoretic text, was re-translated from the Peshitta.[citation needed]

    Lamsa produced his own translation of the Bible in the form of The Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts, which is commonly called the Lamsa Bible.[5]

    Where many scholars hold that the sources of the New Testament and early oral traditions of fledgling Christianity were, indeed, in Aramaic, the Peshitta appears to have been strongly influenced by the Byzantine reading of the Greek manuscript tradition, and is in a dialect of Syriac that is much younger than that which was contemporary to Jesus.[8]

    Critics of Lamsa assert that he, like many native Aramaic speakers, extend the semantic areas of words beyond the evidence of existent texts.
     
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  2. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Mindset... what I was referring to was how a person views the world around themselves...

    a free person that is or was born free see the world differently then one born slave...

    so using my meaning a free persons mindset will be considerably different that one born slave...

    sorry if I was not clear... to me mindset is how a persons mind is set up LOL...

    attitude? world view? philosophy? have similar meaning?
     
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  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I guess the difference in mindset between a person born free, and a person born a slave, reflects the difference in the perceptions between what the free person might lose by becoming enslaved and what the enslaved person might gain by becoming free. A lot depends on individual context. Both free person, and slave stand to gain and/or lose by their change in status. This might explain the fight at all costs by some to remain free, or the contentment of some slaves to remain slaves.

    There is some contention as to whether or not the people who left Egypt had in fact been slaves. Certainly if the Exodus narrative in the Tanakh is to be believed, some considerable time had elapsed, and many who were present when the Decalogue had been received, had not been born slaves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  4. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    "There is some contention as to whether or not the people who left Egypt had in fact been slaves. Certainly if the Exodus narrative in the Tanakh is to be believed, some considerable time had elapsed, and many who were present when the Decalogue had been received, had not been born slaves"

    True Chell, most scholars believe them to have been more of an indentured servant class than what we would consider as "slaves". No more slaves than anyone living in a society in which the Pharaoh had ultimate authority over his subjects, even over life and death. Of a lower class, and with less rights certainly but not slaves in the conventional definition.
     
  5. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

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  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Whatever may have been spoken in Aramaic by the characters in the Jesus narrative, did not appear in written form in ancient Greek until some decades later. We have no extant copies of the Bible documents as they were originally written.
     
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  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    The majority of the New Testament is comprised of the "Epistles" or the letters written to the new churches scattered around the Roman world. The Church in Galatia, in Rome, in Thessalonica. The people there would not have spoken or understood Aramaic. Paul was an educated man and would have been fluent in Greek. The Gospels were intended at first as a message to the Yahwist church and the Israelite people in Judea. They may have been originally written in Aramaic but as the church grew it is likely that the original authors themselves or their immediate disciples would have transcribed them into the more common and wider spread language of Greek.
     
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  8. bmtm09

    bmtm09 Monkey

    This has always been my issue with organized religion...I believe that God speaks to the soul and gives you what you need from scripture. I have never been fond of a preacher telling me what a scripture means when I take something different away from the lesson. I dont need to be told thou shall not kill and turn the other cheek when my life is on the line and defending myself is paramount to everything else. I will defend myself and my loved ones to the last breath I have and believe that's what God wants me to do.
     
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    ANYONE who lets a "Preacher", "Priest" or some other type of Religious Human Entity get between themselves, and their GOD, has a Weak Mind, and deserves to be Deluded..... I am completely competent to Speak to, and Hear, the Promptings of MY GOD, all on my own... I believe in Direct Revelation, between a Human, and His/Her GOD, and have found this to be the BEST Way for Me.... Others may, and Do, find their Own Way, but for Me and Mine, This is Our Way....
     
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  10. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Whenever I am asked to speak to an assembly, the first thing I say is "Don't believe anything I say". That gets their attention. I tell people to have a Berean mind and to prove all things. The Bereans while listening to Paul preach would go home at night and search out what he had said to prove if he was right. Talk about a tough crowd!
    It's said that the Bible is the most published book of all time, and the least read.
     
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  11. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    Well cordin to a Rabbi person I spoke with that one don't say kill it says MURDER in the original Hebrew... edition...

    heard an argument about the meaning of words and how they can change...

    IIRC slay meant one thing while kill was like a synonym for murder long time back when they wrote the KJV?

    example...ya don't see "eye of the needle" in dictionaries anymore but remember back in grade school seeing it defined...

    was a small door way in the side of middle eastern walls that had a shape like old style needles...
     
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  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I've discussed this before, the Bible is not a word for word "translation". That is simply not possible. There are some words in the original languages that have no direct corresponding word in English and many of the original words have different meanings depending on the context that they are used. The English language Bible is a "transliteration", meaning that medieval monks would read the text in the original language then write in English what they believed it was saying. You can see the huge potential for errors. Such is the case with Exodus 20:12 which is the 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill". But the original word that is used for "kill" has a far more complicated meaning. If one looks at other places in scripture where that term is used it is most often meant as "to kill unlawfully" or more simply to murder. There are many places in scripture where killing in war, executions, and killing in self defense is quite acceptable and even encouraged. "Those without a sword, sell your cloaks and buy one".
    And you are quite correct in the meaning of "eye of a needle". That is referring to the small door in a city gate. To get a camel through would not be an easy task but would be possible. But in the broader lesson of that phrase, it would require the rider to dismount (come off their high horse/camel) and crouch or bow down to get through. It is symbolic of humbling ones self to enter the gate of heaven.
    As for someone telling you the meaning of scripture. There is a thought, one in which I agree with, that scripture speaks to people differently in different generations. The Bible is the living word of God and it has so many deep layers that it has the power to "speak" to people throughout time. What was given and told to the ancient Israelites had meaning to them but the words given to them mean something different to our generation. Two men can read the same verses of holy writ and it will mean something different, it will speak to each one differently. That is the glory and the mystery of scripture. There is no other written words in the history of mankind that hold the power that is found in the pages of holy scripture.
     
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  13. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    IMO , one that uses the scriptures to define, God's will, usually finds the excuse they are looking for. These tend to manipulate rather than serve.
    However Jesus knew this about men,
    and provided the Holy Spirit to continue teaching in His place ,
    in those that actually love Him.
    " Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled ". Jesus
    Having the education to win arguments among men doesn't make one right .
    Men's approval does not get one at peace with God.
    Heaven is not a democracy.
    I prefer to know what God thinks from His own point of view , not that of men.
     
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