RIA .22 tcm for self defense

Discussion in 'Range reports' started by oldman11, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Before I'm shot down and run out of town on a rail,let me bring up something to think about. The .22 rim fire is too small and or slow for self defense,no question about it. But a .22 center fire 40 grain @ 2000 fps would that not be a good weapon for a woman or someone that was afraid of recoil . 18 rds .22 cal 40 grain as fast as you could pull the trigger with very little recoil. That would put a world of hurt on someone trying to break in your house. The RIA.22tcm is just that gun made on a 1911 frame. RIA has one of the best warranty in the business, well built and will not break the bank to own. Ammo is a little over $20.00 a box. What's not to like about it ?
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Well, where did that come from? I have to admit that you made me do a little research before I could say anything. I have a couple questions. How common is this ammo? (that question is for all Monkeys) (look around your own AO). Is that $20 for 20 rounds, 25 rounds or 50 rounds? As to your question, what's not to like about it? Well that sort of depends on the answers to my questions.

    I like tried and true, common, and available. All of those would describe the .22 LR round. I bought most of my .22 LR stash of ammo at less than 4 cents a round. My goal and my suggestion when it was at that price was for all preppers to acquire 50,000 to 100,000 rounds asap.

    I would never consider the .22 LR round as an end all self defense round. It is not. I will use a lot of 5.56mm nato, and .308win/7.62mm nato, and 9mm, and 12ga ammo first. I also have black powder weapons to press into service, as well as crossbows and bows. If and when It gets to BP and bows, I will still have lots of .22 LR and weapons to deliver it.
    How much RIA .22 tcm will you have at that point?

    I have no problem with teenagers or females of the tribe using AR-15 platform 5.56mm nato or 9mm pistols. I also have to consider weapons and ammo availability in a long run for family and tribe. jmho
    chelloveck and Airtime like this.
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    What's to not like? Proprietary gun and ammo. Fat grips for the small hands.

    All the same, for firearms aficionados, might be a fun thing in the armory, but not for SD.
    VisuTrac likes this.
  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I do not understand why people are always dismissing .22's. I would think getting shot with a .22 would hurt, probably draw blood so why do people not like it? IMO a BB or pellet gun are not good for dense but I think a .22 is fine. Mine is semi-auto as are many out there. I would think if you shoot a couple .22 rounds in to something it will deter.
    Dannyboy53 likes this.
  5. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Price is for 50 rd box. I buy my ammo by the 1000 online from about 20 something dealers No it will never take .22's place for being a cheap rd,but you can reload the .22 tcm and make your own brass from .223. It uses the .22 mag 40 grain bullet @ 2000 fps. Based on a 1911 pistol it comes with a 9mm barrel also so you have two caliber to choose from. I also have over 20,000 .22 lr in stock,1100 .22tcm,1500 7.62/39,500 .45acp,about 400 .45lc,.38 special,.357 mag,.32 sw long and maybe 500 rds 12ga. The .22tcm would be for defense only. Now if someone would chamber the .22 tcm in a ar15 it would really take off . I had to first shoot about a box of .22tcm before I was sold on it.
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Moto, the idea is NOT to deter, but to stop, NOW. If I have to use the entire clip to stop the first intruder, I got nothing left for the second or third.
    Yes, a .22 can kill, if those bullets go right where you want them, and you make enough holes. But you don't have the time, to keep reloading, and the bore of that pistol does not have the impression of a cannon when pointed at you. And the impression it makes may make the difference between having to shoot at all, or not.
    There are historical paintings that depict someone run through with a spear, pulling himself up the shaft to kill his slayer with a sword. The idea is, to stop him with the first blow, and never need a backup plan.
  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Wow. Did the spear chucker just hang on and wait for the shaft climber d'you s'pose?

    Saying that, I agree with your assessment of 22rf as a stopper, it ain't without a really cool under pressure gunny with superior shot placement. Whether 22TCM qualifies as a stopper has, for me, to wait on proper ballistics testing, and even then I would be reluctant to put another gun into the lake or river.
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    My thought went to history also. I cannot find the statistics but I do wonder the velocity of bullets from the civil war and what they would be equivalent to in modern times.

    I like the track that @oldman11 is on because I am a smaller woman who always considers recoil. A strong recoil is going to effect me.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Yes, he did. He tried to hold off his foe with the only weapon he had, and the foe used it to kill him. It is the reason polearm type weapons have some sort of stop now, to prevent it...[​IMG]
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  10. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Here's a youtube of the RIA.

    Bear in mind that these guys are big and well trained, so if they say recoil is negligible, it sure is to them. YMMV. Also the grips are specifically mentioned as hand filling, even among the larger guys.

    Civil war ballistics are about the same then as they are now for equivalent weapons. Meaning black powder, mostly. However, projo weight and speed have to be considered. For a VERY rough equivalent, think 45ACP size and velocity meaning subsonic heavy slugs. Slow and heavy still kills as easily now as it did then.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
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  11. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    You sure can get people to talk about the lowly .22. There have problemly be more people killed with the little ole .22 than all he others. My grandpa carried a .32 sw,police depts used the 32 sw,we killed farm animals with the .22 short. Th .22 short was used in the civil war as a back up gun. How many deer have been killed with the .22? All the meat plants used the .22 at one point or another. I'm not trying to do away with the .22. The .22 tcm is about having a .22 to reload , the next closest would be the .22 hornet.
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  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Quite a few folks who have ended up in emergency rooms, knew something was wrong with them, but did not know they had even been shot with a .22.
    It is not even close to civil war era ammo. With calibers of .54 mantons, or .63cal (iirc. Not my forte).
    Granted, smaller rifles were used, but rifle have more barrel to for more velocity and larger charges too.
    chelloveck likes this.
  13. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    I personally prefer a .45 when necessity rears its ugly head. But I'm kind of Old School.

    However--In the British West Indies, circa about 1970, the most popular assassination weapon for organized crime was the .22 Magnum.

    It tends to make a teeny weeny little hole going in, and a big ruckus on the inside. It's also relatively quiet, and usually easy to conceal.

    Every round can fail to stop. The odds usually favor the bigger bullet, but a .22 can hold a lot of rounds and dump them out real quick.

    There are historical accounts of people being shot 5 times in the body with blackpowder .44s, and not going down.

    A 12 ga. double ought buck carries 8 33-caliber shot. I guess shooting someone with a .32 handgun eight times would be almost as effective. Not the same, of course, but fairly close.

    No, 4 buck is 24-caliber, usually with 21 balls in each shell, BTW.

    Once you show a gun, you may wind up with only two choices: use it or lose it. A larger bore is usually more frightening, so I think it's more likely to deter.

    The bottom line, though, is that the best gun for any one is the one they have when they need it. And, preferably, the one they've trained with.
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  14. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    And you have shot how many AR-15s in .223/5/56mm nato? I am just saying the AR/M16 got where it is today because of a war in a country with a lot of small stature indigenes people we were trying to support and arm.
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  15. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Not many but then I have never had an issue with them. I like AR-15's, shoots fine and doesn't hurt me. I did not put down the AR-15 but I do take recoil into consideration.

    Here is a write up from the guys that @ghrit linked in the video.
    Gun Review: Rock Island Armory's Cutting-Edge .22 TCM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
    tacmotusn likes this.
  16. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    "And the impression it makes may make the difference between having to shoot at all, or not."
    "A larger bore is usually more frightening, so I think it's more likely to deter."

    One thing you guys are not thinking of is this round is on a 1911 frame and most people think 45 when they see one. I don't think if you pointed it at someone they would be checking out the bore and thinking, hey that's not a 45 look at how small the bore is.
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  17. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    But that big ol muzzle of a .45 or 10mm sure makes them think twice about coming at ya!!! ;)
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Kind of like looking down the Wrong end of the 12Ga Scattergun, in the hands of an Upset Protagonist...
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  19. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    Old Man 11, be prepared to be shot down and run out of town on a rail. OK, not really.

    Yes the .22 is a great KILLER, it is not a great stopper. In the Civil War (War of Northern Aggression) the .22 short (the only one available at the time) was a BP rounds and had about 30 fp of energy. The usual weapons of the time shot bullets of .54 to .75 caliber and made great big hole in whatever it hit. The .22 short of the time might not make it through a rolled up blanket (many historical references). Like I said, it was a great KILLER however. If you got shot (pretty much anywhere) you risked infection from all the dirt, and who knows what all that covered the bullet, and if you went to a doctor you were about 95% sure of getting infection because they did not wash their hands and used the same tools from patient to patient over and over, so if anyone had something, you got it too. Shot in the guts pretty much meant to you were going to get peritonitis and at that time that was a 99.9% sure killer. This is why the .41 Rimfire (Remington derringer) was so feared too.

    Yes the modern .22 LR can and does kill deer, bear, etc. Even elephants can be and have been killed with .22 RFs. Personally do not recommend it for any of these animals, but that is just me. And yes Motomom, I HAVE been shot, with .22 RFs (and a few other things) at close range and it actually doesn't hurt much at all. Very little pain. Now a shotgun to the arm (even if it was the edge of the pattern at some range) does hurt!

    But that leaved the point of what the .22 TCM can do. The TCM has a HUGE muzzle flash/blast and in an enclosed room that can be deafening and blinding, same with a short barreled .357 or .30 M1 Carbine pistol, only the .22 TCM does it with out the recoil. Now, what bullets does the TCM use? Do they penetrate or blow up (like a varmint bullet) on a heavy coat? I have not shot enough TCM to actually know how they do (no deer off the side of the road tests yet). Not sure what the .22 Mag bullet does at close range at that speed. Even if the woman/young person/whoever can handle the recoil, can they handle being blinded/deafened? That is not fun.

    The .22 TCM is readily available on line, but I don't know of too many gun shops that carry it. Yes, it can be reloaded simply and easily. I would need to shoot a few things with it to see what happens, but as was posted above, what you got with you sure beats what is sitting at home!
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    If there is a BIG Muzzle Flash, you are overloading the Powder Charge, and wasting Powder.... PERIOD... Doing this Never adds ANYTHING to the Velocity, or Muzzle Energy of the Projectile... and shows the Loading isn't a well thought out Loading, or the Loader is incompetent... and doesn't understand the Science of Cartridge Loading.... for the Barrel Length of the Weapon at hand....
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