Rifle Cleaning M40A1

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by M118LR, Jul 8, 2017.


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  1. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Just flipping through the Old M40A1 Manual (FMFRP 0-11A) when it dawned on me that every 7.62 Government Manual states that the rifle needs to be cleaned for 3 consecutive days after firing. Not to mention that you should run a brass bore brush soaked in solvent down the barrel twice for every round fired.
    So I was just wondering How many folks still use Lucas Bore Guides?
    lucas10@windstream.net
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
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  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I've never used bore guides, but might start.... Nice PDF Resource. [winkthumb]
     
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  3. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Sounds like a TON of cleaning.
     
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  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I am just wondering if the "bore brushing two times for each round, expended" for ANY 7.62mm calbur Projectile, would require a M-60 Gunner, to spend MOST of his waking Hours, Cleaning the Bore, after a one Hour Firefight... If this is the case, it is worse that Chopper Mechaniics spend one hour doing Maintainance, for every Hour in the Air.... Hardly an effective Weapon, maintained wise....
     
  5. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Bear in mind that more rifle bores are ruined by overcleaning than by neglect. I have an old Garand passed down to me from my father that had the last inch or so of rifling missing from the end of the bore. The rest of the barrel was in great shape. This is overcleaning and it's hard on accuracy.

    Also bear in mind that bore brushing is considered a pretty extreme cleaning method, and should be reserved only for the worst fouling problems. Most riflemen that I have read of have shied away from such measures in favor of solvents.
     
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  6. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Muzzle wear is the usual result of cleaning from that end, especially with steel rods, (sectioned or not) the more so if the rods are dirty. And I agree that overcleaning seems to be more of a waste of time and materials with modern projos and powders. That said the referenced manual DOES call for that level of rubbing with brushes (why, I'll never know unless it is some gunny's fave torture), and the M40 is a bolt gun so access from the breach is easy. I have to debate the use of bore guides from the breach, but it may be helpful under some circumstances, especially when cleaning with the stock above the barrel as should be done with some weaps (like the M40, and especially with wood stocks.) For sure, if I had a muzzle guide, I'd use it for frequently fired rifles. CLEAN bronze brushes will never harm steel barrels, the brushes will wear out LONG before there's the least effect on the barrel.
     
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  7. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    We were instructed to only clean when using the rifles for extended strings of fire, otherwise we would leave the light foweling with a little light oil for storage. Before mission, we would take the rifle out and swab the bore with a dry patch and then fire 5 shots then install a condom over the muzzle and we were good to go.
    After a serious range session, we would break out the serious cleaning supplies and go to town. We made our own solvent out of strait ammonia and a light machine oil, and we would leave it to soak for at least an hour before patching until clean. Never put a brush through a bore, even chrome bores!!! Always a coated rod and patches only. If a bore was foweled bad enough, it got pulled and replaced!
     
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  8. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I generally use a "Pete's Bore Guide". Locally made and firearm/calibre specific.
     
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  9. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    I use bore guides but alternately only run patches with a copper solvent/powder solvent. Have not used any brushes since the 80's, plus with as much as I shoot. there would not be enough time to run two swipes per shot. I would rather just keep my long range skills up by shooting as much as I can find the time and finances for, not for keeping my bore squeaky clean, besides, most bores with not shoot any more accurate clean than dirty.

    For those of you that just have to have bright shiny bores, this would be better than any kind of rod/patch/solvent method.Gun Cleaning Clinic: Easy Bore Cleaning For The Gadget-Inclined - Part II | World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
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  10. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I took some classes last summer on Defensive Shooting among other things and the instructor, who was an ex-FBI shooting instructor, said not to use the old way of cleaning with brushes/copper solvent/powder solvent unless it is extremely fouled as does as much harm as good over time. Bore Snakes are the modern way and no metal rods going down the bore nor solvents, etc. That is all I use and you have to run the snake only once, maybe twice if shot a lot. He and all the other instructors agreed on this and also said the new powders burn much cleaner. Anyway, that is what I use and it serves me well...
     
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  11. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    This sounds a lot like barrel proofing. I did both of my AR-15 rifles in a similar way. Bore cleaning after each round for 25 rounds. Like BT Post said thats a day long job for an m-60 machine gun. I use Hoppes for all my solvents and oils. patches etc.
     
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  12. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Don't claim to know much about cleaning bores, etc, but I have noticed a lot of difference in the amount of fouling in reloaded ammo depending on the powders and the older powders do seem worse. That said back in the early 1960's I shot a lot of Turkish WW I ammo in a Spanish Mauser and It had to be cleaned like a black powder weapon as it seemed to draw moisture and harden up in a few hours. Wasn't copper or lead fouling, just a heavy nasty deposit. The other thing was that you sometimes had to cock and reshoot, don't know if it was hard primers or the primer material itself and there was often a noticeable delay between the hammer drop and the cartridge going off.
     
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  13. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Just a few quick notes prior to Sunday Dinner.
    Throat Erosion is the number one cause of barrel related accuracy loss. There is a formula based on powder charge vs projectile diameter that can be used to calculate how many rounds it will take before it's time for a barrel change due to throat erosion.
    When emailing Mike for a Lucas Bore guide, stipulate whether you are using Dewey or Tipton 36 inch one piece rods.
     
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  14. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Anyone ever received a high quality barrel that was used up from a competition shooter?
    I've never meet a precision rifle barrel that had land & groove troubles, but throat erosion? Well that's a different ballgame. You could take your worst brass bristle brush and give it 6 Thousand passes to a new barrel and not even effect the first round out of the barrel. Now tell me how well your .300 Win Mag or 5.56/.223 performs in competition after 3 Thousand rounds?
    Most common shooters don't even bother to document how many rounds they have passed thru a barrel, more or less care. At less than 300 yards most shooters can't send enough rounds down a barrel to make an appreciative difference in a couple of lifetimes. But measure the amount of throat erosion, and suddenly those involved in the Long-Long Distance Game have different opinions.
    Now about the barrel crown, just 1 ill placed scratch from a metal cleaning rod will effect long distance accuracy. The secret to air gauged barrels is that they taper down to the smallest point at the muzzle. (Think of it like a shotgun choke conceptually) It won't matter at point blank range how eroded the barrel throat is, as long as the muzzle end is still tight. But you'll never manage less than 0.5 MOA with an eroded barrel throat. But enough warbling about precision rifle accuracy.

    You don't need to worry about softening your bedding on rifles that don't have it to start with. Most off the rack bolt actions can be had with an aluminium bedding block at best, so using a bore guide really isn't as important. But should you have a firearm that is cleaned easiest from the muzzle end, a muzzle guide is imperative. (If your attempting to keep a precision version of an M14NM, XM21, M21, or M25 bedded rifle shooting it's best? Good Luck Brother)

    About those M16/M4/AR-15 (SNIPER) rifles, and the 1960's M40A1. (Don't read this if you are a 5.56/.223 fan)
    5.56x45mm NATO -.223 Remington - Sniper Central

    Perhaps I might need to open a thread about Cold Bore (& Clean Barrel) vs Center of Group Zeroing?
    Do Y'all think that this might be operationally significant if you only have one round to account for one kill at whatever distance known or unknown? Just how much could it matter??????????????
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
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  15. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    Might be interesting from a sniper standpoint, but the largest share of monkeys can figure out that lacking a backup round, taking the shot with your last cartridge has a risk. One is none, two is one, and so forth. Uv cuss, if you are hungry enough and the target is unmissible, well, you pays your money and takes your choice.

    Yes, I know what you meant. All the same, if you miss with the first shot, odds are you won't get a second. As you well know, "long" range is relative, and as you also know by now, the interest in "long" range sniping as a prepper tactic is limited, too. That said, starting a thread on cold bore zeroing might be of interest to a few.
     
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  16. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Well, this thread was about precision rifle maintenance so most that tuned in probably have at least dabbled at shooting beyond the 600 Meter (or 650 yard) Zero that allows maximum effective use of a Standard Mil-Dot reticle with 7.62 x 51 mm NATO rounds. Just thought folks with Bolt Action (Model 700's SA especially) Rifles might want to glimpse what the USMC Experts considered proper maintenance. Not to mention that even the FMFRP 0-11A while listing a Bore Guide lacks a NSN part number. So I wondered how many folks still used one, and where others might find a suitable Bore Guide. More modern M40 variants have switched to Otis systems, so many may be more familiar with these. Otis Technology
     
  17. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++


    Never have jumped into the ultra precision rifle group, nor have I been in a qualifying MOS that would allow me to go to the US Army's Sniper School located at Ft. Benning, but when it comes to just good ol' fashioned rifle marksmanship, everyone with a good rifle(emphasis on '"a good rifle") and is expecting to use that rifle in a life or death situation will have to be able to properly use that rifle to it's usable ballistic range if they want to survive those life and death situations.

    I currently employ three AR10 style rifles. One is an M4 profile with a 16.5" barrel. Chambered for the 7.62 Nato cartridge that is on it's third barrel. My second AR10 has a 24" stainless barrel that I bought for a whole $900.00 dollars back in 2008 or 2009 that is more accurate that I will ever be. I rarely shoot the second one due to the fact that there is no where to really shoot it to take advatage of the 24" barrel. I also have a heavy barreled Savage chambered for the 7mm rem Mag, but again, no where to go to that will allow me to push the ballistic envelop. I did have a Sig 716, but will never own another gas piston AR.

    What I do believe is that all our firearms should be care for to the best of our ability, but as stated above, running a patch through our bores every shot is just too time consuming. Imagine doing that during your close quarters carbine training. In an above post, I provided a link to the Brownell's site on cleaning your bores with a electrolysis cleaning apparatus that Outer's sold for over $100 dollars. They don't sell them any more due to the fact that any one can build their own for around $30 bucks for a few items that are available at your local Home Depot/Lowe's store. I will post a thread on how to build such an apparatus in the next few days.
     
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  18. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    There are facilities at Fort Stewart around Savannah Georgia?
    The three greatest smells of a wonderful mourning: coffee brewing, bacon frying, and opening the bottle of Hoppes # 9. AHHHHHHHHH
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  6. Brokor
    Century Int'l Arms, Inc.
    Posted By: Brokor, Jun 15, 2014 in category: Firearm Manuals
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