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Ron Paul said what: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by -06, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Cannot believe we have another poly tick turncoat:

    Ron Paul: Ground Zero Mosque Foes Beat Hateful Drum

    Tuesday, 31 Aug 2010 01:09 PM
    Article Font Size [​IMG] [​IMG]

    By: John Rossomando
    Ground zero mosque opponents are pounding a “drumbeat of hatred” and ignoring the conservative principles of private property and religious freedom, Texas Rep. Ron Paul says.

    In an exclusive Newsmax.TV interview, the 2008 GOP presidential hopeful alleged that conservative opponents of the mosque and cultural center two blocks from the World Trade Center site in New York City are blaming all Muslims for the Sept. 11 attacks instead of focusing their ire on al-Qaida, the actual perpetrator.

    Paul’s stance has placed him at odds with many Republicans, including his son, Kentucky GOP Senate candidate Rand Paul, who voiced his opposition to the proposed mosque and Islamic center two blocks north of ground zero during a recent Newsmax.TV interview.
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I'd have to agree with him. This country was founded on the principals of religious freedom and property rights and I'll be damned if I'll take a stance against even my enemies having the same rights here. I took an oath to defend my constitution and there were no exceptions for the things that I don't particularly care for.
  3. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    it wont stop some red neck from destroying it.[boozingbuddies]
  4. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I'm all about religious freedom, but this is clearly in poor taste.

    I do believe it is the equivalent of the Japanese putting a monument on top of Pearl Harbor or us building a monument on top of Hiroshima. Just ain't right.

    If you don't believe there is a fundamental statement in the building of that mosque, I believe your eyes are closed. There is an opposition everyday that fights us on all fronts- militarily, socially, and politically. It started in the East and moved Westward. It's already got just enough foothold in Europe.

    All in the name of tolerance?
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I have to agree with Al. Where do we draw the line? Freedoms and liberties are PERSONAL rights, religion among them --not a collective physical representation manifested in churches and mosques; especially when they are purposefully erected at ground zero to incite dissent and further add to the contempt between religious orders.

    This whole situation is a huge powder keg --and I can see the game being played here. The greatest problem we face is making an easy decision incredibly difficult and uncomfortable.
  6. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I wanted to say something, and I fear a s***storm is going to come crashing on me for that, but here it goes....

    Is it possible that all this Zero Mosque thinking is a bit misguided? From all the things, evidence, movies and reports I saw, I really believe that 9/11 was an inside job and Muslims had nothing to do with the whole thing. They were just scapegoats for govt crime and murder of its own people as an excuse for Iraq...
    Personally, I would be strongly against Zero Mosque, but for other reasons...It looks to me like a provocation for US people who believe govt version of 9/11, and as an insult for people that think 9/11 was a scam and false flag attack. The goal would be creating a pressure on the people and strengthening the hatred feelings towards Muslims. It's another thing that Zero can be presented to the Muslims as a sort of "good will" and "apology" for Afghanistan, Iraq, 9/11 incrimination, etc.
    If you look at the picture from this angle, govt MUST build Zero, because it serves them perfectly three fold!

    Do not insult me, curse me or hate me because of this post...This is just my view, which might be completely wrong! ... But what if it's not?
  7. horology

    horology Monkey+


    That's the real problem in the world, prejudice!
    I could care less if they built on land they own a
    memorial that they did indeed kill those people
    on 9-11. But most know that it was an inside job,
    and all this hoopla over a building is just a distraction
    from the real problems in the country/world.

    The Gulf ruined
    etc etc etc
    who cares about a muslem YMCA building.

    Place of Refuge 2012 - Welcome
  8. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Do I like the Mosque? No. Especially when the same freedoms are forbidden in the countries supporting this endeavor.

    Do I think the Mosque is a statement? Yes. In the Muslim mind it is a sign of victory.

    Does the Mosque flip the bird to those impacted the most by this tragedy in NYC based upon their perception? Yes. The families left behind should be angry over this potential?

    Doe the construction of the mosque violate the constitution? No. No matter which way the towers fell.

    Should we finance a gay, tansvestite, and lesbian bar next to the mosque to make a point on site selection as well as a women and human rights center adjacent and evangelistic christian center? Why not, its covered by the constitution, too.

    Doe the US get involved in too many problems by forcing our way of life on others? Yes. This is the root of the overall problem.

    Off topic:

    Is "Islam" a religion of peace? Based upon how I have been fed news back to 1981 with the bombing of the Marine barracks, I would say no.

    If a foreign country had troops on our soil, would people in the US act similarly when confronted with a more powerful force? Probably.
  9. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I wanted to see who this Ron Paul guy is, so I watched a lot of videos...I have to admit I like what he says...If he's honest and not just another lying politician...From what I saw and heard, he seems like a smart, patriotic, realistic, decent man...
    But then again...what do I know about US politics and politicians...
  10. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Ahhh grass-hoppa...one learns to accept those things they cannot change and the nature of Bubba will not be denied!
  11. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Well, I know that some folks around here may think you are nothing more than a "dumb commie", but I do not share that view. I especially enjoy your company here, even if you are rough around the edges. But hey, I am rough around the edges, too. Anyway, yes --I am in agreement that the "official story" about 9-11 is full of holes, and there are mountains of evidence in support of a conspiracy for government and banks and corporations to once again profit from war. And as little of a role (if any) that Middle-Eastern "terrorists" may have played in the horrific event of 9-11, it still does not erase the situation that has been commonly accepted by the majority of the world; since it is our perceptions which shape our reality, and all things being equal, this has become a religious war no matter the initial circumstances that shaped the events.

    Clyde also makes an interesting argument. The Muslims (not as a whole, but certainly a good amount of them) may very well see this as a sign of victory. This further adds to the friction between traditional American religions and that of the Middle East, which is quickly becoming a growing trend despite Obama's claim that Muslims "have always been here".
  12. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned


    The dangers of perceiving something wrongly because of propaganda and politics is the curse of our "civilization"...
    Perceptions normally should change once the evidence surfaces...should change! It looks to me that govt saw that more and more people are waking up and accepting the bitter truth that they were deceived for decades, and govt feels threathened and they must find a new spark to ignate the dying fire...Even some govt people (Ron Paul) are openly attacking the oil wars...and the fact that more US soldiers commited suicides (allegedly because of feelings of guilt), then died on the battlefields makes govt feeling quite uneasy and exposed. In situations like that, nothing is better then causing a controversy, public disagreement and religious or ethnic or racial conflicts. This Zero mosque thing will not remain as a dispute between religions in US and Middle East, but also within US. How many Muslims are there in the US now? Citizens? Non-citizens?
    If all this leads to religious wars, that actually means a civil war in the US too! Been there, saw that!!! Why are US troops pulled out of Iraq all of a sudden? Why are UN troops in US now? Excercises?...yeah, right!
    Do me a favor...since I'm just a commie with no knowledge of stock markets, trading, stocks and all those capitalist things, could you please check and let me know which stocks (what kind of companies, what do they manufacture) are going high up and rising these days? I have a pretty good idea what should be happening, but I'd like if there's someone knowledgeable here to check that out for me...I'm not sure I'd know how to do that...
    If I was in the US, I'd be buying stocks from canned food, bottled water, generators and non-perishable food companies...
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Big pharma (vaccines) are skyrocketing just after the latest plague is announced. Also, the executive branch are usually among the primary shareholders. Heck, even Rumsfeld's Aspartame is a wise investment these days...there's nothing quite like the cancer causing excrement of e-coli to PERK you up! At least you won't have to worry about all that nasty natural sugar stuff that makes you fat! Here's some corn syrup (in everything) to make you feel better...

    Anyway, we were talking about some stupid mosque and how that equates to liberty or not.
  14. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    Personally, I think the whole issue is a distraction. Makes me wonder what TPTB are really up to.
  15. jim2

    jim2 Monkey+++

    So, using this logic, it would be alright for some communists or nazis to build a semi-fortress in the middle of some US city for the purpose of spreading their beliefs, projecting power, and conducting operations? I can't believe you feel that way.

    This thing is being built solely for the purpose of giving us a slap in the face, and is a monument to their "victory". Reading the blog Gates of Vienna will enlighten everyone on the truth about Islam. It is not a religion as much as a very dangerous cultic political system bent of global domination. They are not a true religion and should be afforded none of the protections thereof.

    Liberties are an important part of our society, but our Constitution is NOT a suicide pact, and should never be viewed in that manner.

  16. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    The "mosque" is already closer to strip clubs than it is to "Ground Zero"...

    Which is all irrelevant. It is private land and Dr. Paul is correct.
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The simple fact is that not only do I believe that but I also support your right to be a bigot and to question my beliefs. I do not think it is right or appropriate to slap America in the face but if they wish to take their chances doing so, it is their right. The Nazis did have fortresses and businesses here prior to WW ll, read about the Bund. However vile they are, we have earned our enemies, and however "patriotic" the likes of you wave your flag, the simple fact is that you are as much of an enemy to our constitutional liberties as are the muslim extremist, if you would make exceptions to the rights granted us "ALL" by our creator.
  18. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    I can understand the the Nazi thing, but I can't understand how the line is drawn with communists and Muslims? I mean, Nazi's and WW2, but what did communists or Muslims ever did to Americans??? I mean, US was never attacked by communists or Muslims...It was the other way around (with Muslims...)
    I see this, for example, like me being a racist, against black people...I saw black people only on TV and movies, so how could I be a racist or hate black people? Or yellow....or red? I could understand that reasoning if US was attacked or bombed by communist North Korea, or China...or Muslim Iran, Iraq or other country...but how do you hate people, religion or ideology that never did anything to you or your country? And as for spreading beliefs..how did Christianity begin? And what about the media? Propaganda? CNN and BBC? Isn't that global spreading of beliefs?

    Even if mosque is viewed like slap in the face, it's not Muslims that are doing the slapping, but govt that attacked those Muslims in the first place!
    To say that Islam is not a religion but a very dangerous cultist political system bent of global domination is plainly wrong and just doesn't make sense if you look at the world history! Remember crusade wars? Hitler was greatly assisted by the church! How can you say that Islam is not a real religion, when it begun just 300 years after Catholicism and 600 years after Christianity? Did Muslims ever tried to conquer the world?

    About the liberties...Do the liberties work equally for all, or just for chosen few? Should all human beings have liberty, or should just the ones holding the guns?
    And who is determining who can be granted liberty and who not?
    Who is the one doing the granting? State? Politicians? Bankers? Priests?
    Are some humans worthy of being free, and some are not? Because of different religious, political or ideological views?
    Does this means that I, as a Socialist and Atheist, should not be allowed human freedoms? Am I less human because of my beliefs?

    Prejudices and propaganda creates hatred among human beings for irrelevant reasons and bogus causes. Only common, ordinary, innocent people suffer the consequences of political and propaganda lies...
    Until we are able to think about ourselves as brothers and members of one global, human clan, we are destined to keep killing each other over BS reasons, while TPTB's are growing richer and more powerful every day...
    I have seen the worse of enemies, that tried to kill each other every day, working, living and dying together in terrible situations...
    Death cares not what your religion, ideology or color is...It loves us all and it takes us all...
  19. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    America has been attacked by the Muslims on numerous occasions. The Kobar Towers, the USS COLE and USS Stark, the Beirut Marine Baracks, and yes, the Twin Towers. I place the blame on the Muslims for the execution of the Twin Towers Mission, but certainly believe our Government may have 'allowed' it to happen, and did take major advantage of it - that is politics.
    I have to side with Jim on this one - if I am seen by some as 'racist', 'bigoted' or somehow anti-Constitutional for siding with MY country - so be it. I stand by my beliefs.
    Bane, I do not hateor castigate youfor your beliefs - a lot of Americans believe the same. And that is our freedom, to have our own beliefs and opinions.
  20. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Sure...Everyone is entitled to their opinions...
    What I'm trying to point out is that there has to be an end to all those wars and hate...And to all the propaganda fueling that crap!
    If not, then Americans should hate Japanese forever for Perl Harbor, Japanese should hate Americans for 2 nukes forever, Americans should hate Muslims for the Komar Towers, the USS COLE and USS Stark, the Beirut Marine Barracks and Muslims should hate Americans and Israelis for all the dead in Middle East and entire world should hate Germans for WWII...
    It's ridiculous to even think of possibility like that! It appears that the only way for it all to end would be total annihilation of one or the other or even both sides! Is that really how we want our civilization to end? Is that really the message we want to leave to our children (if they survive our stupidity)? Is WWIII just around the corner? Should we expect nukes flying all over the world soon?
    We need to change the way we are programmed to think, and to start thinking for ourselves and making our own minds, instead of letting politics and propaganda do our thinking and making our decisions...
    Maybe if we seriously tried to put ourselves into the other side's place, try to feel what they feel, and live how they live, just maybe we could be more flexible, compassionate and honest...
    The way we "humans" live now, and the things we do to each other now, just show that we don't deserve this planet and our species existence...

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