Scenario - Instant Family

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TailorMadeHell, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    It is possible, but from the info given, you know nothing of the kind. The kids are not exposed at all before the bullets fly. Assigning motives before facts is prejudice. The kids COULD have been used or abused in many ways. But there is no evidence to support that theory that I can see. Please feel free to prove me wrong. Through kids could be future terrors, or the hope of the future, but at present, they are both unknown, and innocent (until proven guilty, same as us)
    Aeason, T. Riley and chelloveck like this.
  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    There is not a lot that we know about these children from the scenario narrative, other than that they appear hungry, distressed and dirty. (seeming to infer some neglect; and distress occasioned, perhaps by the death of their guardians)

    It is possible that the kids are, themselves captives, in which case they may welcome their rescuers, or they may be the dead ambusher's dependants, in which case they may have different reactions, depending on their age, maturity, and understanding of what happened. They might not care greatly, if their primary survival needs can be better provided by you than their former tribe.

    I would not discard the children to an unknown fate out of hand....but would do what I could reasonably could to help them to survive until some other agency could assume responsibility for their care and well being. So long as they are presenting no threat to my group's survival, they being pro social, and contributing their fair share to the survival of the group, (within their capacity to do so), then they get a temporary "seat in the lifeboat" until a safe haven can be found for them.

    Much will depend on the actual situation, as it shakes out on the ground at the time that it happens. Although, a work of fiction, I am reminded of Cormack McCarthy's novel, "The Road", Where the boy is offered the opportunity of being adopted by a family that had been tracking the boy and his father....the offer of adoption was not made until after the boy's father had died....The family prudently considered the father as an unknown, and unacceptable risk to their own survival.
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  3. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    A 3 year old can kill you with a knife in your back as easily as a 30 year old can. I'm not saying murder them out of hand, but I feel that I need to voice that YOU DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE, and that YOU NEED TO BE HONEST ABOUT THE RISKS.
    Tully Mars, M118LR and Aeason like this.
  4. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I understand where you are coming from, but abandoning a 3 year old, without any other means of support, would be tantamount to murdering them...just that it would most likely be a slower and more miserable death than just cutting their throat from the outset. Certainly, assuming responsibility for a child is a risk...even if a child found was not even part of the ambush hypothetical.

    The scenario presented is a moral dilemma, prompting us to consider the practical implications of making moral and ethical decisions....As an atheist, I am not bound by the moral imperatives of theistic diktat, but as an ethical humanist, I am not prepared to abandon my humanity in order to secure my own personal survival at all costs. If I can, I will do what I can reasonably do to help others, consistent with weighing up the risks to me and mine in doing so. My aim is to do the least possible harm, and as much good as I am able to do, with the resources that I have at the time.
  5. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Okay- maybe I am a racist or something but little abandon Muslim kids......... didn't consider that. You are correct, these kids (some of them) are trained from a very young age to assimilate with the intent of someday killing the infidels. I almost think I would hesitate. I will have to think on this more. If SHTF because of radical Islamists then.......... don't know.
    Aeason likes this.
  6. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    A SHTF world isn't very different than being in combat. The experience will be different than anything you can imagine. In time you'll become numb to it. Combat reactions and the zone are something alien to you unless you have seen combat.
    Tully Mars, Aeason, Yard Dart and 2 others like this.
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It is the reason why the military put a great deal of emphasis on training; and providing a legal/moral framework to differentiate between necessary, morally sanctioned killing, and immoral, unlawful, unsanctioned killing...they are for the protection of the combatants as much as for non-combatants.

    Let's hope, that the eventuality may never come, when survival will come down to the use of deadly force to protect oneself and one's own tribe. That does not mean that we should neglect all necessary preparations and precautions should that unwelcome reality come to pass.
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  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    So what would you do if the enemy is using non-combatants as a shield and shooting at you? Although I'm not going to go to the Nth degree; your choices are shoot back or die. Perhaps watch your own be slaughtered.

    I echo your sentiments exactly; however as a realist.....
    Aeason likes this.
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I my World, you use the "One Shot, One Kill" Method, of executing your Enemy, from behind the Hostages... After the first Two or Three, Drop Dead, the BAD guys will either Cut and Run, or just Kill the Hostages, but it is VERY hard to move forward, in a "Spray and Pray" Shooting Advance, from Behind a Human Shield... Human Shields are RARELY used to Advance on a Armed Position, and most are used to Get Away from and Assault, by DeA$$ing the area....
    Any collateral damage, will be just that, and can't be Helped in a Combat Situation.... That is the NATURE of being a Hostage, in a Hostage Situation....
  10. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    If that is the opportunity; then take it. As I originally stated "Although I'm not going to go to the Nth degree" and I'm still not. Who said an armed position? As you've modified it until you're correct; you're correct. :)

    Unless we are discussing suppression fire or recon by fire etc.; spray and pray or more correctly spray fire is the doctrine of the third world with what the West considers to be relatively untrained soldiers. The doctrine of the West is aimed fire. Aimed fire is a relative term or those here with a combat arms background know what I mean by relative.
    By relative, if someone is shooting out of a window in a poured concrete building; relative means shooting through the window to deny him from using it.
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  11. TailorMadeHell

    TailorMadeHell Lurking Shadow Creature

    Even with the IED kids, keep in mind that your decision will be with you. In Iraq, the insurgents were training US. They would attack the convoys with those Russian potato masher type grenades. They would do it over and over again. Once we were on high alert for that tactic, they started having the kids throw replicas at us. They hoped that in that split second decision someone would drop a kid so they could post it for the media war. And we aren't talking about war-age teens. We are talking old enough to toss something. I've heard about the kids with the real grenades and those used as booby traps. If you kill a kid who has a fake grenade, it will weigh heavier on you than killing one who tossed a fake grenade. Seconds can scar you for life. And we know in combat, a lot can happen in a split second.
    chelloveck likes this.
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    My default response to the OP is that kids are kids and it's my duty to do whatever I can to care for ANY unattended kids we stumble upon. But as with everything else, I reserve the right to change my mind based on the circumstances at the time. Never decide on a solution before you understand the root problem that needs solving.
    Tikka and BTPost like this.
  13. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    There are probably more pictures of American soldiers handing out candy, gum, food to kids around than most other kinds. Even of our medics treating injured kids.
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    An honest answer, it isn't thinking; it is all reactions.
  15. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    I'm going to draw fire......
    Nit's grow to lice, "Blood is thicker than water."
    They are going to be happier when they join thier recently departed parents on the other side, best I can do is to expedite the trip.
    Dunerunner and Tully Mars like this.
  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If you have made provision for keeping those captured, and eves dropping on their conversations, with in the confines of the structure, it is possible to learn what there motives are.
    This structure would be in a place far away from the main camp so that, if they escape or turned loose, they are still oblivious as to where your camp is.
    I had figured out a while back about this scenario ,and concluded that this is the best way to deal with strangers, no matter their age.
    "IF" the group agreed to allow one to become a candidate ,some one had to be willing to sponsor ,and share from their portion they had earned . No ones survival is free.
    Each member gets a ration for their days work and that ration is shared amongst their family.
    The ration is a value established by the group , probably a days worth of food, till things are more improved .
    One does not have to spend all their ration , which is good for buying power for products and services others provide. As things evolve progressively. If there is no effort to improve things, the initial way remains.
    One whom is not a productive member cannot work, like children ,natural or orphans , so they need a sponsor . no one is compelled to be a sponsor and it needs to be understood that ones generosity is not a debt period. there is no right to it.
    Once one is proven responsible and the group agree they can be trusted , then and only then are they allowed to work and earn a ration prorated to their duration as a dependent.
    If your going to organize a group, bookkeeping is going to be absolutely necessary.
    If one has the foresight and discipline to save their ration, and there are plenty of others to do needed work then time off can be scheduled .

    The ration IS FOOD , so if there is no food to back the ration the ration gets worth less.
    This means that food production and preservation is the most important aspect of the group. And it can be lost through neglect or complacency .
  17. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Don't know why I missed this thread the first time, other than it is a crappy situation.

    I would take all the weapons and ammunition. Given that it was never mentioned that this was a SHTF scenario, I will assume that civilization has collapsed and everyone is fending for themselves.

    The children stay, with admonition that they not follow or face the consequences. I know for certain that my kids and wife would argue to take them in, and it would be difficult to explain to them just how dangerous those kids would be. What if they stole your food stores you had been packing and disappeared into the night? What if they escaped, were members of a group and alerted them to your presence? What if the attempted revenge for their parents? What if they left a trail for others to follow?

    None of that is good for you and yours. The kids stay, tied if necessary.
  18. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    This scenario is another reason to not be on the road. If you were at a compound with vast stores of food , a lake full of fish, farm animals then the scenario changes. You take them in, you train them help them to become part of your group. However they would not be allowed to see defenses or perimeters. teach them to fish, work in the gardens etc.

    The OP,S scenario is you are ambushed while traveling with your own meager supplies. There can be no good outcome to this anyway unless you are moving to a Bol location. A land flowing with milk and honey. Then you take the children with you. But if you are just traveling through a wasteland looking for scraps left by a dead world? better to bury them next to their parents. these are reasons NOT to bug out. but to get as quickly as you can to secure location with supplies and the means to procure food, water and shelter.
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  19. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    How many times in history has this kind of thing come back to haunt the "good guys"? While it is a $h!t detail I only see one recourse that is both secure for me and mine and compassionate to the ambusher's offspring. No way do I leave anyone behind to come kill my family later. The OP said they were crying over the bodies of the ambushers. That tells me they are offspring and offspring will want to "even the score" at some point. No different than having to put down a starving animal,a suppressed .22 behind the ear. It's the kindest thing in the long run.
    M118LR and Dunerunner like this.
  20. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    While I agree I also disagree, I must point out that I've never jumped out of deep sleep in the middle of the night due to a nightmare about putting down a starving animal. There are subtle differences. JMHO.
    Tully Mars likes this.
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