self defence ammo

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by monkeyman, Apr 1, 2006.


  1. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    My carry gun is a .357 mag and currently I keep it loaded with generic jacketed hollow points but am looking for a good defensive ammo for it that will deliver maximum energy to the inital target (as in go in with lots of energy and not come out) and that would also minimize any concerns of ricochet. I know a lot of them that are out there and that would seem to meet these criteria but it also has to have enouph penetration to reliably penetrate a skull if needed.

    I have had ammo that would have met all the other criteria and thought would be great but shot a pig in the head with it at point blank range 3 times and all 3 just flattened on the skull and didnt penetrate into the brain. I would most likely be going for chest shots if I had to use a sidearm for defence but want to be sure it can make a good head shot as well if needed.

    I was basicly wondering if anyone had done or knew of any real world type ballistic tests of the various defence ammo (preferably not just from its manufacturer) that test and show how they do at penetrating a hard surface (similar to bone) then going into soft tissue as well as into things that would simulate chest shots.

    I like the idea of the glasiers but dont know if they would penetrate for a head shot.

    Im not real familiar with how the hydro shocks are put together or how they work, just that they are popular. Pretty much the same for some of the others.

    I was just hoping someone here might have used some for hunting or tested them in some other way so could get some more info on them since with a lot of them selling at $2/round or more I cant afford to buy a bunch of the various ones and test them out to see what works.

    Thanks for any info you may have.
     
  2. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I am getting ready to buy the Winchester Ranger ammo. It is exactly the same as the old Black Talon, they just took the black off and re marketed it. Best hollow point I ever fired. Nasty little bugger when it enters something!
     
  3. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Unfortunately, I don't have any test results..... but as far as the Glasers not penetrating a skull...... I think the fight is over regardless of penetration at that point :)

    I load with hydra shock, a lot of my buddies favor golden sabres.
    here's a short review page http://www.allsafedefense.com/Special_Pages/BulletTest.htm

    Sniper... you know those Rangers are "law enforcement only", right ;)
     
  4. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [winkthumb] Sure! I don't think all vendors do though!
     
  5. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I prefer the Hydra-Shok in my .45, and I have shot a big pig in the head with it, and she died instantly. Nice penetration too. For my .357 Sig I like the Speer Gold Dot. The TX. DPS uses it and from what I hear they really like it.
     
  6. prepareordie

    prepareordie Monkey+++

    Here is a site that just did a test on ExtremeShock brand ammo

    http://www.theboxotruth.com

    regards, Prepareordie
     
  7. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    Exactly my take on the low penetration ammo, probably wouldn't penetrate to the vitals, the same thing that gave the 9mm a bad reputation. Thanks.
     
  8. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    mm, there's two schools of thought on the .357. Evan Marshall, a Detroit cop, said the 125 grain was the best stopper on the street, and that was from studying a lot of shootings. The current heavy bullet/ deep penetration trend will favor the 158s. A friend of mine, who was a street cop for years, tested his on 2X4s, and used the one that did the most damage. He shot a 2X4 with a 158, and blew out the whole back of the 2X4. And carried 158s. Since your day to day use would also include a pig or varmints, I would think a 158 or even the Remington 180 would do a better job.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Old, mean, and nasty Administrator Founding Member

    158 gr are devastating at close range. I've busted up concrete blocks with them. But they do buck and roar some, makes follow ups problematic. I carry 125 hollow points, no great preference for brand. If I have to take down a baddy, I am not going to worry a lot about overpenetration. (No cohabitators here.) [gone]
     
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Me too I used to carry Black Talons but am reduced to the Hydros
     
  11. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Once again, great minds think alike. b::
     
  12. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    [boozingbuddies] [winkthumb]
     
  13. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

  14. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I carry what I can afford to shoot a lot of because I feel like one hardball in the ten ring will beat eight hydro-shocks in the bushes every time. Just my opinion but the .45 will get your attention no matter what comes out the barrel and it will make a lasting impression if you put two in the chest and one in the noggin.
     
  15. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I agree and practice with hydros out of this handgun.
     
  16. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    My main problem with carrying what I can afford to shoot a lot of is that a .22 is just a little to underpowered. lol Actualy I am hopeing to get enouph money together over the next few months to get set up to reload. I have already been saveing my brass and have 1K or so of once fired brass just waiting to be reloaded.
     
  17. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [ditto] I practice with ball and Hydra-Shok both.
     
  18. jim

    jim Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I use Win. Silvertip 145 gr JHP's in mine and only worry about connecting on the first shot. I also wouldn't have any problem carrying 125 gr. JHP's inspite of what Evan Marshal says.

    I fondly remember the good old days when you could shoot what ever you wished, even hot reloads. Damned lawyers.

    jim
     
  19. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I carry JSPs since they still have the expansion but also have enouph penetration to punch through a skull. Ive just had to many hollow points, includeing the jacketed ones, flatten out on the skulls of animals to trust them if I ever needed to take a head shot in a defensive situation. Something I think I will do when I get my next handgun to help on picking a load is to go to the butcher shop (where they slaughter) and get a few of the pig heads they are throwing away to use as targets and see what different rounds do on them as well as in water as a 2.5:1 substitute for soft tissue.
     
  20. Wild Trapper

    Wild Trapper Pirate Biker

    Hit a pig just right with a .22, shot out of a pistol or rifle and it'll go down like it's been hit with a sledge hammer. I've done it and seen others do it. I had the best luck with stingers, but I'm talking right in the spot slightly above the center line between the eyes. Slightly lower or higher and all ya get is a really pissed off pig. The other spot I like is right in the ear canal from an angle behind so he doesn't see it coming. Otherwise, just use a .44 mag or .45 ACP that's get the job done, no questions. For that I'd hand load with something like a XTP in that .357, really good expansion, but with a 44.mag it might pass right through taking the brains with it. Your pig would sure be dead in it's tracks.
     
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