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Setting up Trust for Class III items

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by kckndrgn, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Wasn't sure where to put this.

    Does anyone have any experience setting up a trust for your class 3 toys? I'm looking at getting 2 cans pretty soon and while the CLEO will sign off on them, I'd rather not go that route. I want to setup a trust, no fingerprints, no photos, no CLEO.

    Thanks in advance.
  2. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    Not gonna happen. No Class III dealer will sell you any item on the NFA list without an approved ATF Form 4, which entails your fingerprints and a .gov DOJ level background check, and a tax on top of that. I think it is still $200.00, but don't know for sure on that.

    That is your only legal option
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  3. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    You are incorrect. On the Form 4 it is filled out as a trust, not as an individual, no FP, no photos. Yes it can be done.

    I have searched, found many people that have done it, just wanted input from any monkeys that may have done it.

    Yes the transfer fee, er tax, is still $200.00

    Oh, and I already have the Class III dealer that will do the transfer - the one that I work at.
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    You are correct, and it is very simple and easy to do. I used Willmaker software to create my living trust, paid a five dollar fee to the county tax guy to register (not a necessary step) and mailed a copy of my trust to the ATF with the completed form 4 and three weeks later, had my blue stamp in hand.
  5. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    I stand corrected, and thankyou for enlightening me on that. I was never aware of that process. I will have to find a CLIII dealer in my area. I would like to get some cans for my HK Tactical and my AR 10/Savage Tactical.
  6. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Take a look over at Silencerresearch.com. It seems like there was some good information over there on the forum. John Titsworth the owner is a stand up guy, when he came to Longview for silencer testing he let me play with his toys. That full auto supressed MP-5 was about as much fun as a man can have with his pants on.
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    <style></style>Titsworth let you play with his toys??? hopefully Mrs. Titsworth was involved so it was not to strange. Sorry, could not help myself when I read the post.
  8. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Thanks Sea.

    I was looking at going to USLegalForms.com to get the trust paperwork. I got a copy of some trust form, but I'm not sure that it's "legal" for TN (the original was for a trust in GA).

    Thanks again.

  9. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Don't need to be a Trust only... Any corporate entity will do.
    Saves you from individual background checks and fingerprints and CLEO signoffs. Take it from a guy with cans who has an LLC set up for the next cans... You can name your wife and kids and friends as members of the LLC and then they can transport them out to the range for you!

    Hint: Do a search on JJ Luna and New Mexico LLC

  10. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    One caution on the LLC, some states have an annual minimum tax. CT is $250 per year. NY is, IIRC $500 while CA is around $800. This is not an income tax but more of an LLC maintenance tax.
  11. CBMS

    CBMS Looking for a safe place

    Can we set up a LLC within another state than that which we reside? Maybe could I use an OR Address to form a living trust and use it to get the license in California? I know you guys aren't legal advisers, but you seem to have more experience than I. Lol how about using my Canadian Address...
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    New Mexico does not have any maintenance fees or reporting requirement other than a Registered Agent. I get the registered agent for $99 a year.

    Yes, not sure about CA to US but in the States you can have an LLC set up in another state but if you 'engage in business' in state you may be charged that state's 'maintenence fee' as an alien corporation. The use of the LLC for the personal collection of things of value was not 'doing business' in my formers state nor my state last month nor my state of residence this week. I've moved a lot lately :)

    The NM LLC is the best the states have to offer. I'm not actually even listed on the Articles of Organization... Privacy at its finest.
  13. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yes Mr. Titsworth did, and Mrs. Titsworth was there as well. He had a lot of cans, full auto toys and others. John runs a very good informational site.

    I won't speak of Ms. Titsworth's cans.
  14. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    great info!
  15. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Sorry, just had to make a comment for fun. After this F'in election I am trying to find something to be happy about.
  16. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    Is that like the Paragon Foundation for land? Interesting, I'll have to do that with my friends.
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Here is an exert from a class lll dealer that might give some better insight.

    STEP 1 We'll complete two copies of an ATF Form 4 for you (the only info we need from you is your full name, mailing address and county). You simply check a few boxes (to verify that you're 21 or older, not mentally defective, a drug addict, a fugitive from justice, etc.) and sign/date.
    STEP 2 We'll provide you with an ATF Form 5330.20, which simply verifies your citizenship status. You fill in lines 1 & 2, check the appropriate box on line 5 and sign/date on line 7.
    STEP 3 WE'LL ASSIST YOU IN DRAFTING UP YOUR TRUST and ensure that it's formatted correctly so that your paperwork won't get delayed or denied once it has been submitted.
    STEP 4 You sign your trust documents in front of a notary and have it notarized. You'll make a photocopy of the entire trust and send it back to us (so that we can submit it to the ATF along with your ATF Form 4). Store your original trust with your other important documents (mortgage, will, etc.).
    STEP 5 We'll mail the whole packet, along with a $200 check from you (a one time fee that pays your transfer tax - also called "tax stamp") to the ATF.
    STEP 6 6-8 weeks later, when I get your approved paperwork back from the ATF, I can transfer the NFA item to you along with your ATF approved Form 4.

    The TRUST is by far the easiest method of ownership. You'll spend 1/10th the time completing your paperwork if you use a TRUST (instead of INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP), because you won't need passport photos, fingerprint cards, or the CLEO's signature. There is no "down side" to a trust.

    I do not recommend ever going the CORPORATION route for NFA ownership. Businesses change and/or dissolve eventually (and then you'll have the hassle of dealing with your NFA items that are the property of the corporation). A TRUST or INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP will last your lifetime.

    If you have any questions about the process, please don't hesitate to call me and ask. My goal is to take the mystery out of it all and make it simple, easy and care free.


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