She wore a hajib...

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by RightHand, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have found a growing tendency in myself toward an anti-muslim attitude. When I walk into the quick mart gas and grocery and find a young woman behind the counter wearing a hijab, I have an automatic negative feeling and I don't like that anymoe than I would like to feel uncomfortable to know the young woman was a Methodist. I was raised in a household that accepted all cultures, faiths, colors and nationalities and I tried to raise my own child in the same way. Now, in the end zone, I find myself reacting in a way that surprises me.

    I have wondered how much I have been influenced by the patently negative attitude that pervades the internet. Have I changed because of facts and my own knowledge of those facts or because that is the attitude that surrounds me at every turn and I have allowed myself to climb under the same umbrella without too much thought. I have always seen myself as one who prefers to carve her own path and make her own decisions so the possibility of the later is unpleasant to me. For the past few months, I have been doing my best to suspend my knee-jerk reponses and do a little more investigation.

    What I have found:

    "Islam" -
    the word Islam comes from and Arabic term for “losing oneself” “submitting” or “surrendering” to the will (of Mohammed)​
    Christianity asks us to submit or surrender to the will of God - not much difference here

    "Allah" -
    "Having lost his father, the posthumous orphan Mohammed wanted to perpetuate his father’s memory. His father’s name Abdallah was conjugated from Abd-Allah which translates as “Slave of Allah”. This is the reason why Mohammed chose Allah among the many pre-Islamic Arab deities to be the only deity to be worshipped by the Muslims! Not many historians have discerned this fact why it was allah who became the centerpiece of Islam and not any other pre-Islamic Arab male deity like Bēl, Bēl-Šamīn, Abgal, Aglibol, Wadd, and Yaghūth (the last two are in fact referred to in the Qur'an (71:23) as gods of the era of the Prophet Noah).​

    Even Baal (alternatively known as Hubal) who in fact was the most important deity in pre-Islamic Mecca, found no place in Islam. Only Allah survived in Mohammed’s Islam. So Allah did not choose Mohammed, it was the other way round. Mohammed chose Allah! Allah was chosen by Mohammed as his father was named after allah! Some historians identify Hubal and allah to be the same deity. But, to the best of our knowledge, no historians have discerned this fact why it was allah who became the centerpiece of Islam." (1)​

    Mohammed, born to a powerful clan, rose in power with his creation of the "islam" faith and declared himself the sole prophet after the messages he said he received from God. Some historians believe these "messages" were visions he experienced as a result of one or more of his epilictic seizures.

    In Christianity, there are those who dispel the belief that Jesus was the son of God. Many believe he was more of a gentle philosopher who wander the lands spreading his concept of brotherhood and goodwill among those he met. The stories of miracles are dismissed as events added so that the "church" would maintain it's ever increasing power over the new Christians and spread their influence worldwide. The Knights Templar maintained that they possessed proof of this and that the bible was written, amended, edited, and included adjunct books to suit the times.

    Holy Wars and Jihads -
    I was going to list the Christian holy wars (not limited to the Crusades) and the Islamic jihads but this brief discussion would have turned into a multi volume tome​

    Both Islam and Christianity have been willing to shed blood to increase their power base around the world and gain the following of more adherents and punish the non-believers. - this is a tie

    The main difference I see is the Judeo-Christian faiths, even most of their extremists - possibly excluding the Westboro Baptists, have progressed beyond blood wars while the Muslims tend to follow the dictates Mohammed calling for the extermination of non-believers.

    "We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades." Muammar Gaddaf

    Because of this, as of 11/04/2015, the following world hotspots involve Muslims.

    Hot Spots: Central African Republic (often there are armed clashes between muslims and christians), Democrati Republic of Congo (war against rebel groups), Egypt (war against islamic militants of Islamic State branch), Libya (civil war), Mali (clashes between army and rebel groups), Nigeria (war against islamist militants), Somalia (war against al-Shabaab islamist militants), Sudan (war against rebel groups in Darfur), South Sudan (civil war)

    Hot Spots: Afghanistan (war against islamist militants), Burma-Myanmar (war against rebel groups), Pakistan (war against islamist militants), Philippines (war against islamist militants), Thailand (coup d’etat by army May 2014)

    Hot Spots: Chechnya (war against islamist militants), Dagestan (war against islamist militants), Ukraine (Secession of self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic and self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic) (Note - Sweden, Germany, Hungary, Greece and France are all dealing with the influx of Muslims and the resulting conflicts.)

    Middle East:
    Hot Spots: Iraq (war against Islamic State islamist militants), Israel (war against islamist militants in Gaza Strip), Syria (civil war), Yemen (war against and between islamist militants)

    Colombia (war against rebel groups), Mexico (war against narcotraffic groups)​

    So what is my conclusion? Yes, I do have a reason to fear the encroaching Islamic ooze. Yes, I do have a reason to fear the conservative Judeo-Christian extremists. Yes, I most certainly have a reason to fear any group, religious or political, who attempt to further their agenda by usurping my right to choices.

    (1) The History of Jihad site is brought to you by a panel of contributors. This site is co-ordinated by Robin MacArthur with Mahomet Mostapha and Naim al Khoury, New Jersey.

    Other contributors to this site include professors and members of the faculty from the Universities of Stanford and Michigan (Ann Arbor), Kansas State University, Ohio State University, and the London School of Economics. We strongly suggest that this site be recommended as additional reading for students of Islamic History.
  2. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter+++

    Is there a link that we may use for further reading?
  3. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    Western/Islamic cultures do not mix. That's the 900 pound gorilla in the room. He's there, and it's not PC to point him out but denial doesn't make him go away. If Afghanistan and America were on Eharmony they would most certainly not be paired up. The sad thing is, the western world has somehow fallen into the roll of the fixit girlfriend, the one who looks at the guy who will treat her like dirt, rob her blind, probably beat her, and most assuredly leave the second she's knocked up, and thinks "I can CHANGE him!" Middle Eastern Islamics are not interested in changing to our idea of how they should think or act. Best to kick them to the curb and move on while we still have our jaw intact.
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  4. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

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  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    So we are in agreement that Islam and all Mooslimbs who actually follow their faith and believe in the Koran, are out to convert us to Islam or Kill us. Nothing else is acceptable to them! They do not come here (America, the west, any place other than dominantly already Islamic countries) to assimilate. They do not want to conform to our laws. In fact they violate our laws because in many ways they are as backwards assed as the 7th century on many levels and that is what they want right now no matter how it conflicts with the particular society they are imposing on. Right !!!? or have I missed something?
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  6. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    For me, tac, it goes beyond any one particular religion. It speaks to any group who has an agenda to usurp my right to choice, be it Muslim, Christian, Democrat, Republican, PETA, Greenpeace, the Teamsters - anyone
  7. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Only one of those listed above appears to be readily willing to kill you to usurp your right of choice.
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  8. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

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  9. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    In the United States, violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort;[I 1][I 2] Seven murders occurred in the 1990s.[I 3]

    Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping
    According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, 13 wounded,[12] 100 butyric acid attacks, 373 physical invasions, 41 bombings, 655 anthrax threats,[13] and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[I 6] Between 1997 and 1990 77 death threats were made with 250 made between 1991 to 1999 .[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[I 1][I 7][I 8] IN 1985 45% of clinics reported bomb threats, decreasing to 15% in 2000. One fifth of clinics in 2000 experienced some form of extreme activity. [14]

    • August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.[I 9]
    • August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
    • July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
    • December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
    • December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second degree attempted murder and was sentenced to 20 years. "Donald Cooper's Day of Violence", by Kara Lowentheil, Choice! Magazine, December 21, 2004.
    • October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[I 10]
    • January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed off-duty police officer Robert Sanderson.
    Arson, bombing, and property crime
    According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[I 6] The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[I 11] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[I 12] Incidents have included:

    • May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when an alert patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[I 13]
    • May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:45 am. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,000 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine Monk who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. Following the Birmingham incident, Markley entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers. One of the workers, Kathryn Wood received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and three counts of third-degree assault and harassment in the Huntsville attack.[I 14]
    • December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[I 15][I 16][I 17] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.
    • March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[I 18][I 19][I 20]
    • May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[I 21]
    • October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[I 22]
    • May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[I 23][I 24][I 25] This was the second arson at the clinic.[I 26]
    • September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[I 27]
    • June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[I 22][I 28]
    • July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[I 22]
    • December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[I 29]
    • September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[I 30] Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[I 31]
    • April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[I 32]
    • May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[I 33]
    • December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[I 34][I 35]
    • January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[I 36] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[I 37]
    • January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[I 38]
    • April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.
    • April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.[I 39]
    • September 4, 2015 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.[I 40]
    • October 22, 2015 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire was vandalized by a juvenile intruder. Damaged in the attack were computers, furniture, plumbing fixtures, office equipment, medical equipment, phone lines, windows, and walls. The flooding that resulted from the vandalism also damaged an adjacent business.[I 41] [I 42]
    Anthrax threats
    The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[I 7][I 43]

    • November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.
    • July 16, 2001: Steven Rogers, a security guard at a clinic in Melbourne, Australia was shot in the chest and killed by Peter James Knight. Knight brought ropes and gags into the clinic along with 16 litres of kerosene, intending to burn all 15 staff and 26 patients to death.[I 44][I 45] Knight was charged and was sentenced to life in prison on November 19, 2002.[I 46]
    • January 6, 2009: A firebombing using Molotov cocktails was attempted at a medical clinic in Mosman Park, Western Australia. Faulty construction of the bombs limited damage to a single external burnt area, though if successful damage would have been severe. It is believed that the individuals who made the attack were responsible for graffiti "baby killers" on the site, indicating an anti-abortion reason for the attack. The site turned out to in fact not be an abortion clinic, though the attackers most likely were not aware of this.[I 47]
    Attempted murder
    Violence has also occurred in Canada, where at least three doctors have been attacked to date. There is speculation that the timing of the shootings is related to the Canadian observance of Remembrance Day. The physicians were part of a pattern of attacks, which targeted providers in Canada and upstate New York, including Dr. Barnett Slepian. All victims were shot, or shot at, in their homes with a rifle, at dusk or in the morning, in late October or early November.

    A joint Canadian-F.B.I. task force investigating the shootings was not formed until December 1997—three years after the first attack. A task force coordinator, Inspector David Bowen of the Hamilton-Wentworth Regional Police, complained that the Canadian Government was not adequately financing the investigation. Inspector Bowen said the task force, largely financed by the communities where the shootings occurred, has "operated on a shoestring" with a budget of $100,000. He said he requested more funds in July that would raise its budget to $250,000. Federal officials rejected the request on Oct 15, a week before Dr. Slepian was killed. Inspector Bowen said that there hadn't been funding to follow up potential leads.[I 48]

    James Kopp, an American citizen and resident was charged with the murder of Dr. Slepian and the attempted murder of Dr. Short; he is suspected of having committed the other shootings as well.[I 7][I 8]

    • November 8, 1994: In 1994, a sniper fired two bullets into the home of Dr. Garson Romalis, 57, of Vancouver, British Columbia who was eating breakfast. One hit his thigh, destroyed some of his muscles, broke his femur and damaged his femoral artery. Dr. Romalis saved his own life by using his bathrobe belt as a tourniquet. Dr. Romalis had become more outspoken about abortion rights since he was shot, citing the harm done to women by illegal abortion and the thousands of cases of septic abortion that came to his hospital in residency.[I 48][I 49]
    • November 10, 1995: Dr. Hugh Short, 62, of Ancaster, Ontario was shot. A sniper's bullet fired into his home shattered his elbow and ended his surgical career. Dr. Short was not a high-profile target: it was not widely known that he did abortions.[I 48]
    • November 11, 1997: Dr. Jack Fainman, 66, of Winnipeg, Manitoba was shot. A gunman fired through the back window of Fainman's riverbank home in Winnipeg about 9 pm and struck him in the right shoulder, inches from his heart. The police would not comment on whether Dr. Fainman, who has declined interview requests since the attack, is still performing abortions.[I 48]
    • July 11, 2000: Dr. Romalis was stabbed by an unidentified assailant in the lobby of his clinic.[I 50]
    Bombing and property damage
    • February 25, 1990: Two men broke into a clinic in Vancouver and destroyed $C30,000 worth of medical equipment with crowbars.[I 51]
    • May 18, 1992: A Toronto clinic operated by Henry Morgentaler was firebombed, causing the entire front wall of the building to collapse.[I 52] The Morgentaler Clinic on Harbord Street in Toronto was firebombed during the night by two people (caught on security camera) using gasoline and a firework to set off the explosion.[I 53] The next day, clinic management announced that the firebombing failed to prevent any abortions, since all scheduled abortions were carried out in alternative locations. A portion of the Toronto Women's Bookstore, next door, was damaged. No one was hurt but the building had to be demolished. On the day after the firebombing, Morgentaler came to inspect the damage and a crowd of abortion-rights supporters appeared at the clinic with signs that read, "Just Say No to Bombs." As a result of the arson, the Ontario government decided to spend $420,000 on improved security for abortion clinics. At the time, all four free-standing clinics in Ontario were in Toronto. The government wanted to gather information about activities by anti-abortion sympathizers; at the time, law enforcement agencies in Canada did not collect statistics about harassment and violence against abortion providers, their clinics, or their clients.[15]
    New Zealand
    In the late 1990s, Graeme White was found guilty and sent to prison for tunneling into an abortion clinic[I 54][I 55] with what the police described as "incendiary devices".[I 56][unreliable source?]

    Specific incidents
    Violence by Army of God
    Main article: Army of God
    According to the Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security's joint Terrorism Knowledge Base, the Army of God is an underground terrorist organization active in the United States formed in 1982, which has been responsible for a substantial amount of anti-abortion violence. In addition to numerous property crimes, the group has committed acts of kidnapping, attempted murder, and murder. While sharing a common ideology and tactics, members claim to rarely communicate;[16] the organization forbids those who wish to "take action against baby killing abortionists" from discussing their plans with anyone in advance.[17]

    In August 1982, three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.[18] In 1993, Shelly Shannon, a very active member of the Army of God, was found guilty of the attempted murder of Dr. George Tiller.[19] That same year, law enforcement officials found the Army of God Manual, a tactical guide to arson, chemical attacks, invasions, and bombings buried in Shelly Shannon's backyard.[18] Paul Jennings Hill was found guilty of the murder of both Dr. John Britton and clinic escort James Barrett.

    The Army of God published a "Defensive Action Statement" signed by more than two dozen supporters of Hill, saying that "whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child... if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life".[20][17] The AOG claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 shrapnel bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham.[21] The organization embraces its description as terrorist.[22]

    Physician "wanted" posters
    In the late 1990s, an organization called American Coalition of Life Activists (ACLA) was accused of implicitly advocating violence by its publication on its "Nuremberg Files" website of wanted-style posters, which featured a photograph of a physician who performed abortions along with a monetary reward for any information that would lead to his "arrest, conviction, and revocation of license to practice medicine".[23] The ACLA's website described these physicians as war criminals[24] and accused them of committing "crimes against humanity". The web site also published names, home addresses, telephone numbers, and other personal information regarding abortion providers—highlighting the names of those who had been wounded and striking out those of who had been killed. Dr. George Tiller's name was included on this list along with many others. The site was accused of being a thinly-veiled hit list intended to incite violence; others claimed that it was protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.[25] In 2002, after a prolonged debate, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the "posters" constituted an illegal threat.[26]
  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    This is a very poor equivalence. Total everything up in the previous post which reaches back some 30 years or so and compare it to any given day of the atrocities currently being committed on behalf of Islam. Yesterday, in addition to the hundred plus murders in Paris, Islamic extremists elsewhere lined up 200 children and murdered them as well.

    1.6 Billion, that's 1,600,000,000, people either wants you and your entire civilization dead or is ambivalent about it.
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  11. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    But the point is, we are still willing to cause death and destruction to those with whom we have a philosophical difference. Our beliefs in what "our God" intends for the people of the world doesn't trump what "your God" intends.
  12. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    The attacks on abortionists (which I do not condone) are committed by people who feel they are acting in defense of others who have been or will be murdered by them. There is a HUGE difference between them and those who want to kill you simply because you are breathing.

    I have zero fear of being injured or killed by an anti-abortion activist, but Islam, given time, WILL be at my doorstep and yours. Unless, of course, we wake up and take care of it before it gets here.
  13. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Righthand, Abortion is a fight I have no dog in. You know this. I have openly stated my views on this here at Monkey. Considering your age ... yes I actually said that. I don't expect you will be visiting any abortion clinics for yourself either. The abortion issue has rabid irrational folks on both sides. To deny that would be foolish. In review your entire response as those to be a threat to you are all folks on one side of the Abortion Issue or the other except for the Centennial Olympic Park Bomber who I have no clue if even he knew who he was killing people for. So I guess that is everybody except me and I could give a rats azz less one way or the other about the abortion issue.
    Peta and greenpeace, and the teamsters ain't out to get you as far as I can tell, but you can bet the farm a boatload of these damn mooslimb refugees that Odumbmass is bringing by the 10s of thousands Ain't gonna be too fond of a outspoken woman who doesn't know her place among men, and is an unbeliever. They would think nothing of beating you into submission and gang raping you. They might not bother to kill you. Why bother, you are only a woman. They have proven this in Europe among other places. There have been isolated incidents here in some of our larger cities as well. Mostly here they seem to abuse their own women. Not always, but mostly.
    If what I have said above seems to blunt, well it is a reflection of what I see on the world news,
  14. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Huh - I guess I can end my battle with the insurance company for birth control pills. thanks for the heads up Tac ;)
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  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    When I am told to just accept assertion as pure fact...and exhorted to accept such assertions in terms of absolutes; and binaries of: black and white, evil vs good...and not to enquire more deeply into the evidence supporting such assertions...My BS detection apparatus starts ringing bells....loudly!

    Cherry picking proof texts from "sacred" scriptures is game that everyone can play, be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or (insert a religion here). There are proof texts that can be plucked out of the Qur'an, Tanakh, and the various versions of the Bible to prove or disprove just about anything that the cherry picker wants to argue: All that doing so demonstrates is that a "sacred" text cherry picker has selectively chosen those verses that supports their argument whilst selectively ignoring those verses that undermine or disprove the arguments that they are earnestly trying to convince us of. It is the kind of sophistry that appeals to confreres who enjoy the same world view as the sophist.

    I am not convinced that the magical beliefs and ways of thinking of one religion / cult (particularly the religion / cult that oneself is affiliated with)is any superior to the magical beliefs and ways of thinking of any others. Although the minutiae of doctrine might vary the end...they are but variations on central tropes: Obedience, conformity, unquestioning belief in divine, supernatural agents who's personalities and quirks are uncannily humanlike, promises of reward and punishment in life on Earth, and in some supposed after-life after physical death; exclusivity of membership; reliance on ritual, dietary restrictions, and dress, etc,as membership markers and as means of enculturing religious affiliation within a community / nation....I could go on and on, but you'll get my drift.

    As I have pointed out elsewhere, it is a fundamental mistake to think of the world's three main monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as huge monolithic structures of uniform, homogenous composition and consistency. They are not! They are more like piles of rubble where one rock, or stone, or pebble can be as like or as different as comparably sized rocks, stones, or pebbles in the same rubble heap or as of the other "separate" rubble heaps of infidels which they differentiate themselves from: All of which claiming that they are the one true representative of the primordial mythical monolith before it became Satan, heretics, or whatever....

    So what have you demonstrated Taku....not much, other than your ability to copy and paste someone else's take on Islam that you, and evidently some others agree with.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
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  16. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    [reddevil]aw shucks, I think y'all are blowing this all out a proportion.[sheep] I mean, I ain't been to no mohairmadman country like some of y'all have, but I seen some of them Disney cartoons and think them folks are quaint and cute.[hug} riding camels, horses and magic carpets.[alien] seems like everyones got one of them big curved swords and a sexy daughter or wife that can dance her ass off sexy as hell wearing shear baggy pajamas.[touchdown] rich they are with tons of gold and gemstones and oil. a few of them even got magic oil lamps and a personal genie. what the heck they wanna mess with us for? we got nukes. [micro] not that we would actually use them, but they are a detergent factor. [gun] why we got our government to take care of us anyway. [flag] they wouldn't ever let anything bad happen to us. ohno they can do just about anything n would not bring them people over here if they weren't good people.[contract] heck the governments there to help us thru thick n thin forever.[BSf] I ain't got no more time for this here argument I got bigger fish to fry.[haay] really I am frying fish tonight. [sinking] see y'all on the flip side, n god bless. [sarc2]
    Rocky Road Lerp and pearlselby like this.
  17. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Watch out for small bones tac...choking may just be god's judgement....just sayin' ;)
    Yard Dart likes this.
  18. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    The Baptists here try to convert me with pot luck dinners and iris swaps. While I remain comfortably atheist I do appreciate a good casserole from time to time. The Methodists use loudspeakers blasting hymns all day long to do the trick. Annoying as hell, but ultimately harmless. Compared to the Islamic lunatics idea of appropriate treatment for infidels, I'll take the Xtians at my back door any day of the week. Seriously, this is one coming war that everyone needs to put aside their petty bullshit differences and come together. And it IS coming. There are hoards of imported Muslims in my area and even after years of being here, they've assimilated about as much as a turd in a punch bowl. I've had two run-ins with the males and they were... unpleasant.... to put it politely. And this is the Texas panhandle! I shudder to imagine Dearborn. Not all Muslims are like that? Yeah that's coz they're lip synching Muslims, much like a lot of Xtians who wear the title but don't pay to play. Harmless now, but if TSHTF guess who will suddenly be in the front row at the nearest church or mosque trying to make up for lost time. Won't be any lip synching then. It'll be a full blown concert, and if they're not going to be jamming to AC/DC then I'd prefer to hear Onward Xtian Soldiers over Allahu Akbar.
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    OK, I'll buy that. The difficulty is that the daesh have chosen to follow their own selected cherries. I'll follow mine that are picked from various sources, including those that advocate positive reactions in kind. It's about time for lake bed salvaging and go hunting.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I relate to this statement very much. I find that I am at war with myself. I do not want to condemn a whole race or religion. Bigot or racist, I never dreamed I would apply those words to me. I am not saying I am those words but I find myself more and more saying- those people. The world will never be in 100% unity. Never has been, never will be. Sometimes I think it boils down to the cake maker. The Christian cake maker that was forced to bake a cake for the gay couple. I do wonder if a gay couple would be force to bake a cake for a Christian. I know that has nothing to do with killing but because of the cake maker decision, feelings have been festering and things that fester can have ugly consequences.

    I cannot condemn all Muslims. I know too much about honor killings to say that all with a Muslim heritage is bad. Too many of the young have raised here and are desperately trying to obtain their freedom. Example: A girl I know raised Muslim became very Americanized, she shuns the Islamic faith. He father beat her a few times. When she went to move in with her boyfriend the father went nuts. He was on the hood of the car. The father has been stalking her at work trying to find out where she lives. I fear she will become a statistic. What does all this have to do with above? The girl is Muslim decent but she wants nothing to do with any of it. Therefore I cannot condemn everyone of them. But I really want to, it would be easier to say us against them.

    I cannot say all Christians are good because Westboro baptist always comes to mind. And PETA people did leave death threats towards the dentist that killed the lion. So many examples of extremes in every facet.
  1. Asia-Off-Grid
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