Sheep dogs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Airtime, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Took my teen age daughter to see American Sniper this afternoon. Hesitated strongly about doing that as the movie is rated R and she is 15. We talked about the violence and language while I was deciding. She really wanted to go and I was unable to counter her argument, "Dad, I ride a public school bus, there will be nothing in that movie I don't hear every morning riding to school." Dang, she is learning the strategies of debate. I couldn't top that.

    She very much liked that movie and talking about it in the car coming home, we got talking about sheep, wolves and sheep dogs. She asked which I thought she was. I said I wasn't sure yet (she isn't ready yet to be a sheep dog and the dog in me was to not give premature confidence she was). But, her body language indicated she didn't like that answer one bit. Back pedalling, I added that she was not old enough to fall into a category but watching how she helped with the little kids at church, I added that she certainly has the makings of a sheep dog. Her demeanor changed instanty to a more proud one and pleased I saw her that way.

    It is easy to think that our future is near hopeless with the couch potato, video device centric, me first generation. But then some of them surprise you exposing some of their inner values that are honorable and hopeful. So while I enjoyed the movie, it didn't come close to my pleasure afterwards.

    A proud dad.
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Interesting outcome of taking her to this movie. I hadn't thought of trying to instill sheep dog into mine but that might be next on my list of things to do with my daughter.
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  3. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Just an amusing addition, as we were talking sheep dogs, wolves and sheep, she asked what Obama was and added that while he was incompetent she did not perceive him as evil (a wolf). We agreed he was a sheep herder wannabe - wants to tell the sheep what to do and where to go but was too clueless and arrogant to be any good at it. I labeled him a shitty shepard but was promptly scolded for using the S word (sorry sweetie, it was the only negative adjective starting with SH that popped into mind.)

    Proud again.
  4. ditch witch

    ditch witch I do stupid crap, so you don't have to

    Obama is the Border Collie I used to have who refused to listen to commands and herded the sheep into the fence. She would have herded them over a cliff if I'd had one in the pasture.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Now this is perhaps the best analogy I have ever read regarding Obama. :)

    There are plenty of people out there who want to do the right thing, some of them often do what they believe is best, but in reality they only end up making matters worse. We should never forget, those who occupy the highest offices in this land may enter with noble intentions, once having a full range of choices but little power to change the world, to having all the power they can perceive but with no choices at all. They are like spiders caught in their own web; there is no way to stop what has begun without destroying everything in the process. Some folks see what is going on as just a matter of good vs. evil, a purposeful assault on liberty and the republic. I say, there is much more than meets the eye, and unless we possess all the pieces of the puzzle, we can only see fragments of what really exists. What may really be at stake is something greater than national borders and tradition -we may very well be at war for the continued existence of the human race. It could be our pride and our indifference which will spell our doom, or it could also be our ignorance.

    People like Obama serve a purpose for those who have no names and pull all the strings, just like every president who may have once held a dream for a better world is reduced to being a servant to the corporate oligarchy. The method is to move ever onward, no matter the cost, even if many millions must die, because in the minds of those who possess the vision of conquest, some must perish for the rest to survive, and the ends will justify the means. Some have argued that we will sacrifice our humanity in a futile attempt to save it, or claim we are beyond saving at all. We go to war, seemingly for profit, just to erect church steeples and McDonald's arches. We proliferate our enemies to give reason for invasion, often training them and inspiring them to commit heinous acts of violence to incite fear and anger among the populace for support in the campaign to legitimize this perpetual lust for control. We assign labels to politicians, who wear any variety of faces they must and spin tales to seemingly win support, and at the end of the day they are all in the same room with each other dividing up the spoils while the wretched servant class begs at their heels for any tiny morsel of compensation. Looking back, it seems not much has really ever changed for the human race. Powerful men have guided and prodded mankind forward with the sword and the rod, no matter if they wore armor or robes, the people always followed. We are the descendants of rapists and murderers, who have plundered and ravaged their way through the ranks to attain some semblance of greatness, and we inadvertently became their legacy. Now we have raised cities of concrete and steel to celebrate and house our prowess, all the while taking advantage of countries whose people live in mud huts and drink from soiled streams, with the only difference between the two is electricity. It's almost comical to think how the civilized and the barbaric world are only separated by this single substance, yet this "civilized" world we live in creates more barbarism and calamity than all the third world combined. It is often times the mud hut people who must suffer the inhumanity of the technologically advanced cultures. With this thought firmly in mind, isn't it amazing how we perceive ourselves in this modern world? And the fearless leader whom we believe we elect each period will fall in step just as the rest have always done, moving ever onward, never looking back at the world we left behind. Perhaps this is one of the problems we have, never truly learning from the past, we are destined to repeat the same mistakes in this life of cruelty and despair.

    Yes, there are exceptions to nearly everything. A "sheepdog" is a model of living to behold as worthwhile, especially in the land of the deceived. I can think of no greater time than now for the brave and honorable to humble themselves and serve the sheep, for this may be the time leading up to humanity's darkest hour. But, before we can undertake any attempt to assist the sheep, we should unlearn the mistakes of the past and at least accept the reality before us. Very few are truly innocent in this struggle of the human race. Even our children, who are now innocent and harmless will one day grow up and fall heir to this place we have created. In just the same way we now stand on the field of broken dreams and hopeless endeavors, they, too will have their chance to witness what they have inherited.
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  6. driftz240

    driftz240 Monkey

    my son just turned 12, im cool with him watching stuff like this. just have not made it out to see it yet.
    The sheep spend their lifes pretending the wolf will not come for them
    the sheepdog prays for that day.
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I saw American Sniper the other day (in fact have seen it twice). I don't think that it is a film that would be problematic for a 15 year old girl to see...and you did the right parenting thing of warning her about the cussing, and gore, and the adult themes (aka sexual relationships and binge drinking) were not gratuitously graphic, but were realistic without being pornographic or titillating.

    The film neither glamorises nor glorifies war, but shows it pretty much how it is, where innocent and good people get hurt, and bad people sometimes get away with horrific crimes against humanity. Knowing that some soldiers, marines, naval and air force personnel come back damaged; physically and/or psychologically, is an important thing for a young person to understand and appreciate.

    In some ways I found Kyl'es father's speech about "wolves, sheep and sheepdogs" in the film a little irritating and detracted from the authenticity of the film. The wolves, sheep and sheepdogs" analogy, coined by Lt Col David Grossman in his 2004 book 'On Combat', would not have been in current usage at the age that Chris Kyle's father was purported in the film to have said it when Chris Kyle was a child. I appreciate that the speech is a script writer's plot device to foreshadow how Cris Kyle saw his own role as a SEAL sniper, and I recognise that it does work in that context.

    The take home message that I got, and that other thoughtful viewers should be able to perceive, is that there is a cost to military personnel, their families, relatives and loved ones...and society in general in sending service personnel into harm's way. Sometimes the costs are physical, and sometimes they are costs to the psyche and to the relationships that war veterans have to rebuild when they return. That message was lost to many, during and post Vietnam, but hopefully it will not be forgotten in later and future conflicts. Soldiers, sailors, marines and air force personnel do the duty that is required of them on behalf of all of us. As fellow countrymen and women, we should not despise them for doing that duty
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
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