Shot gun that fires all shot gun shells

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by oil pan 4, Sep 17, 2017.


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  1. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    This one actually exists, you can buy it today and it's not real expensive, plus you don't have to buy anything you already have. It's not a NFA weapon unless you want to cut down the barrel.
    Say if you have three 12 gauge pump guns you can buy a 20, and then get 16ga, 28ga and 410 barrels. At that point you will have everything worth having in a smooth bore.
    It is the single shot NEF shot gun.
    I think they are about $100 for a complete gun in one gauge and additional barrels were $36 each back in the day, I'm sure the price has gone up some over the years. Only inconvenience is you have to have the barrel fitted to the gun at the factory.
    It's the cheapest way to get into a new shot gun gauge with a gun that is 100% reliable.
    They are single action only, auto eject the shell when opened, have no safety and are pretty light weight, you may not want to get one in 12 and/or 10 gauge. The 12 gauge only weighs 4.5lb and it will pound you when you fire mag shells.
     
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  2. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Another one of the old firearms companies destroyed by the Freedom Group - Cerberus Capital. Don't know if any of it is still made as it moved from my area years ago. The shotguns were good in its day and I still have and love their earlier single shot break action rifles. Not real safe prior to transfer bar and it is kind of delicate with that change. I make sure to never dry fire it but that is common sense. Used to be common around here to find 30-06, 308, 223, or 30-30 for around $125 or so and they were very accurate guns. Quality got pretty bad towards the end and some were pretty ugly. Knew a neighbor who test fired the M-16's when they made them in the 60's in New England and his shoulder was bad from firing all day every day for years.
     
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  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    IIRC, they shut this program down in late 2014. If you wanted to do this now, you'd have to have your favorite gunsmith make the new barrel fit.
     
  4. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Seems kind a silly carrying around all those different barrels "just in case" you find ammo to fit .
     
    Legion489 likes this.
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I use a .410 or 28 ga for birds, a 20 for rabbits, a 12 for walking critters and clays, and a 10 for waterfowl but can't figure out what this damned 16 is for, I don't recall shooting it more than once or twice since inheriting my Uncle's Browning "Sweet-sixteen" forty years ago. I am pretty sure there are a few boxes of 16 ga in my ammo locker, maybe I'll shoot some paper to see if it still patterns as pretty as Uncle Odell swore it did.
     
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  6. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    I guess you could attach the odd gauge shot gun shells to the end of a pointed stick like in the movie "the grey" which was then proven to be less effective as compared to a pointy stick on mythbusters.

    Plus you don't carry around all the barrels, leave the ones you don't need at the moment or don't have ammo for at your base of operation, carry the ammo back home, swap out the barrel as needed depending upon the mission and ammo availability.

    That's too bad. I know someone who might be willing to part with a full set for the right price.
    So you can still get a full 12 through 410 set, it will just cost more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2017
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    OK, buy the 12 ga. (it IS 12 gauge, no "." needed. It is not .12 ga in case anyone was wondering. The .410 CALIBER shotgun is NOT a gauge and that is why it gets the "." in front of .410) and then order a set of cartridge adapters from ACE up in Alaska. Get the 20 ga and .410 (I don't know why, unless you just want to have one), then the various rifle/handgun adapters, .45-70, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .32 ACP, .32-20 (popular in Canada), etc. Less cost than the multi-barrel set, easy to carry, and more fun.
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    The only problem I can see with putting a rifle barrel adaptor in a shot gun is most shot gun barrels don't have adjustable sites and the barrel insert seems like it would be able to rotate, changing the point of aim.
    I think all the shot gun to smaller shot gun shell adaters I have ever seen were aluminum.
    How long is that going to last?
    I don't know about a choked aluminum barrel.
    Then if water gets between the aluminum and steel barrel and isn't caught immediately?
    Dissimilar metals are going to corrode together relatively quicky to the point where they are inseparable.
     
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  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    1. The same issue applies to shotgun slugs. Not having a rear sight on a shotgun is no reason not to use slugs, nor would it be a reason not to use adapters for rifle cartridges. The thing is that sniper like accuracy is not expected of slugs to the absolute limits of their effective range, nor should the same be expected of rifle cartridges used in a shotgun adapter. That said...being able to fire rifle cartridges from a shotgun does have practical applications if one is prepared to accept the limitations inherent in using such devices.

    2. That might be an issue for a target shooter shooting for a gold medal in the Olympics. But if its TEOTWAWKI, and one is down to what ammo one can find through trading, scavenging, spoils of war, or using up what ammo stock that is left after one's own weapons have become damaged or lost. Having an assortment of inserts / adaptors, keeps you in the game, and avoiding the ire of @Kingfish , for throwing atlatls at game that could be more effectively dropped by a rifle cartridge fired through a shotty adapter. :LOL:

    3. Not all rifle cartridge shot gun adapters are made wholly of aluminium. Some are steel, with an outer aluminium sleeve, and some are of steel. http://www.ozgunmart.com.au/shop/ba...pter/12-gauge-to-22lr-shotgun-barrel-adapter/

    4. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Perhaps if you could explain in what way that is a problem.

    5. I guess that's what condoms are for. ;)

    6. Solution....remove the adapter / insert when not in use. Only use as necessary.

    Using a rifle / pistol cartridge adapter in a shotgun will not make the best use of the ballistics potential of a rifle / pistol cartridge fired through the barrel of a rifle / pistol. These devices are a compromise solution, with all the limitations that come with, well, compromises. That said, such devices increase the usefulness, and flexibility of shotguns, at an affordable cost.

    Advantages of rifle/pistol cartridge inserts.

    1. They extend the range of cartridges / shells that a single/double barrel shotgun can fire, which could be vital in a TEOTWAWKI environment.

    2. They can make use of cartridges that are more economical of reloading resources perhaps than shot shells.

    3. They can use ammo for firearm training, and skills maintenance that would conserve ammo reserved for hunting / self defence purposes. Using a shotgun to fire a .32 calibre pistol round through an adapter for training purposes may save precious .223 or 7.62 ammo better used for hunting / self defence.

    4. Rifle / pistol cartridges fired through an adapter are economical solutions to the ethical killing of live stock for slaughter / finishing of injured hunting prey.

    5. There may be tactical advantages (deception among others), in initially engaging OPFOR elements with a different calibre cartridge (sound signature) than the MBR platform calibres used by the defending force. It may deceive the OPFOR as to the actual strength and capabilities of the defenders.

    6. Plinking becomes cheaper if small calibre rifle/pistol cartridges are used through a shotty adapter than using shot shells.
     
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  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    1 slugs out of a smooth bore are only intended for 50 yards or less.

    2 I never said it had to be a sniper rifle. My experience with them is they are inconsistant , maybe about as accurate as a smooth bore shot gun firing a slug.

    3 I was specifically talking about shot gun barrel inserts being aluminum. I know rifle inserts are steel. I actually own some, one is a .410/45colt and the other is a 22lr for a 12ga. How many do you have?

    4 if steel shot or a slug is accidently fired in too tight of a choke it will hit the aluminum choke in the aluminum barrel insert, since the aluminum is very low tensile strength compared to steel. The aluminium could plasticity deform and jam the aluminum insert in the original steel barrel. Do you see the problem with that?

    6 is the ideal situation, which doesn't always happen.

    1 yeah and it might be advantageous to find a good over all solution

    2 reloading a centerfire pistol round is pointless when you need a scatter gun to blast birds out of the air or small critters on the run. Pistol rounds will generally be more economical, but will get less small game.
    Plus the shot gun inserts tend to be inaccurate. Use a rifle with sub caliber insert. The point of aim will change but it will be far more accurate than a shotgun with no sites firing a pistol shell from an insert.

    3 using pistol rounds to train with in a shotgun with insert is kind of pointless since the pistol cartridge inserts tend to shoot inaccurately and inconsistently and most of these single shot shot guns don't have rifle sites.
    Use a real rifle with sub caliber insert to train with, these are a lot more accurate and shoot consistently, or AR15 conversation.
    That way you are shooting the smaller round in the platform you will actually use.

    4 is the only good application for these inserts anyone has come up with so far.

    5 sounds like combat wheelbarrow and tatical barkless rat dog level stuff. You can do it and I hope it works out for you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  11. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Seems to me ,it would be more practical to dismantle ammo that you can't use, and reload using the powder and shot from the odd ball rounds, no matter what gun your using , no matter what ammo you find.
     
  12. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Shot guns are actually the most dangerous to reload for.
    Just changing the plastic wad from one style to another can drastically effect the pressures the round developes.
    Shot guns also have the lowest margin of safety, they develop thousands of psi and have very thin barrels and chambers.
    Part of the problem is you have to completely fill the shell or the crimp collapses in unless you go crimpless and glue a plug in every single one.
    Yes I have a shot gun reloader.
     
  13. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Seems to me that if you know what it takes to load shot gun shells, and that is your primary weapon it shouldn't be a problem .
    I'm probably not the expert you are , but I do load some of my own shells , and they all require the safety of using exacting amounts of very specific powders, versus their bullet weight and style.
    A reloading book would be of great value to have along ,as well as labeled samples of the different powders listed in the book, so that you can see the difference one from the other making very little if any assumptions .
    Capture some in between scotch tape and write the name of it on the tape then tape that to the inside of the book on the back page. You may need a magnifying glass to see the differences but that's no big deal.
    I only have 5-6 different powders I use , but it might be prudent to find a way to gather as many samples from the 30-40 different ones that are available .
    But doing nothing ,provides you nothing.
     
  14. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    That will work for a large number of powders but some like AA5, AA7 and AA9 are just about indistinguishable from one another and 5 burns completely different than 9.
    Otherwise I like all my propellants to look different from each other so I can tell what they are.
    You can work up loads with bulk powders, people have done is for almost as long as salvaged smokeless has been around. It can be done.
    For example I picked up several pounds of winchester 540 earlier this year. The thing is win540 was discontinued before I started reloading in 1999.
    You get enough propellant cheap enough you can find an application for it.
    I have used 540 before so I know what to do with it. It's also pretty much identical to HS-6.
     
  15. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    They make what are called sabots for shot guns. like a 44 slug in a 12 gauge shell encased in a plastic sabot(bullet holder) Im not sure if it would be worth my time. My shotgun is to be used for close quarters defense as in around my house.
     
  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Desperate times call for desperate measures .
    Only ones experienced in those measures will flourish, and those ignorant are left to chance .
     
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