I'm still new here, although I've lurked a long time and I'm only 2 years into even thinking about most of the subjects covered in this forum, but, I've worked overtime to do what needs to be done. As a lad, I owned a Savage 12 gauge auto and a Remington 20 gauge pump. I was a fair to middlin' marksman with each, took many dove, some ducks, quail and a buck once with a slug. I loved and respected my shotguns as a yut. My Dad had a .38 S&W police special I practiced with as well, and I murdered many a tin can with that pistol (remember tin cans?). In the military, I qualified on the .45 and carbine, but hadn't owned or fired a weapon in almost 35 years until I decided in 2007 that home defense was a real good idea. I did my homework and took the advice of folks I respect. My first purchase was a 12 gauge Mossberg 500 because I wanted something reliable should the black hats ever get inside. I'm not a hunter (yet), a sniper (yet) or a militiaman (yet). I simply wanted a stop-gap should someone invade my home and threaten my life. To that end, I've practiced with all of my weapons, and rehearsed every scenario I'm likely to encounter from an intruder who somehow breaches the threshold. If they stay downstairs, the alarms and/or my cell will alert the LEOs and I won't wade into the unknown - no property is worth my life, but I'm certain that if anyone attempts to scale the stairs, Mr. Mossberg with double-ought buck will cut them in half before they reach the half-way point. Should there be more than half-a-dozen, the Glock, loaded with 32 hydro-shock rounds is my back-up after the 5 shotgun rounds are spent if there's no time to reload. (I'm confident in the stopping power of a hollow-point to the head or chest and have multiple magazines). The last resort is the mini-14 (again with multiple magazines), but I haven't the same confidence in the stopping power of 223s at short-range and even less in .22 cal, so unless they are shooting back, I'm likely to go after them with a buck knife at that point. The bottom line is that in a home invasion scenario, the 12 gauge is my go-to gun and in my mind - that's all about "survival". I know the post didn't focus on home defense, but it's foolish not to, imho. I think defense is more urgent than assault at this point in my evolution. I'm not really a "survivalist", but I am a survivor ... and I plan to survive. Frankly, I can't afford much more arsenal than my shotgun, my rifle and my hand-gun, but ammo is well stocked for each, I've practiced every drill and as the old Marine says, "when it comes down to a shoot-out, if I do my job right, there will be plenty of ordinance laying around by the time I run out." Maybe I'm wrong and should be laying out back with my rifle in a ditch full of water or snow, and if TSHTF and a mob of 200 MZBs or blue helmets come for me and burn me out, perhaps I will be - but, I'm confident that worst-case I'll hold my ground long enough for my neighbors to reload. I believe in using the right tool for the right job and as a professional musician I've always said that "improvisation is wonderful - as long as it's well-rehearsed." That's my 2¢ - ymmv. If anyone thinks my logic is flawed, I'm always open to sage advice (I've picked up quit a bit at this forum and I appreciate it).
12 Gauge Shotguns Are A Good Decision My first weapon purchase was a 12 gauge shotgun. While it does not do everything, it does what it does so very well that it is a key part of my modest arsenal. Attacking or "dissing" 12 gauge shotguns is such a nonstarter that I wonder if the poster's true intent was to stir up something with a questionable statement. Happily, that is not often seen on this forum. Most of the posts here are solid. They add value and most share a new perspective that I may not have considered before.
I'm no fan of shoguns as a primary SHTF weapon, but if all I had were this POS shotty, I'd be more than fine in 99% of the situations I'd run into! A few 20 round drums for this baby and you'd be able to get down the toughest streets in America just fine.
Well put Drumbo and I like your perspective. Everything we talk about here should be scalable to your own situation. I firmly believe that awareness puts you in the top 10% of the class we call society.
Thanks for the vote of confidence melbo, but I find that the longer I live, the less I know. PapaSasquatch, Is that a Saga 12? I'm still a firearms tard, but my friend has a similar one with a fixed stock and it is a hoot at the range! I have to admit that compared to my little pistol grip pump Mossberg (which I shamefully admit is all Mall-Nija'd up with a laser sight and strobing tach light) the big' ol Saga on auto with a full mag gave me a bit of "hyper-inflated artificial sense of superiority." I suspect that feeling disolves as soon as the target shoots back, however.
Boy; Maybe he could have opened a worse can of worms by telling everybody how much 1911s suck? or maybe that .45acp is wuss round? Personally, I enjoy surgically enhanced breasts and such but never lost my appreciation for the real thing.
Yep, that is a hopped up Saiga. Looks to have a shorter barrel,tromix brake, 8 rd mag. , moded sighting system, replacement forend,buttstock and pistol grip added. dropping on that 20 rd drum really throws the balance (physically and aesthetically) to the point of insanity. but in a bugin / stationary firing position it is a blast going through a bunch of rounds. Heaven help anything in front of it when you are fingering the trigger and in range. stocking up on mags for this machine is buku expensive . not to mention to feed and you can go through way more rounds that you need or would with a pump like an 870. Dead is still dead. I just like the idea that when you shot five - seven rounds, most people would think you are empty and trying to reload. Oops, kind of like tossing your garand clip on the ground.
That Saiga shotgun looks a lot like the Galil: Galil Style Golani Rifle, 223 caliber, with folding stock.
Oh, what fun My FN SLP has the exact same POI at 50 yards with my handloaded roundball slugs as buck It's good to at least 125 yards and our little buddy would really have a really bad day if he were hit with one at that distance Face to face with a housebreaker there's nothing as good for personal survival as a 12 GA with buck/slugs If one does not have a shotgun yet and can't afford one.. best to buy as many shells as you can swing because about every other home in the USA has one, but very little ammo. If you survive long you will have a stack of shotties I think our little buddy should come on next time and tell us the 9MM is a wuss round and the 45 is WAAY better, a real knock down round
Although this has been slightly covered I believe that there is NO better weapon for home defense. From what Ive read the avg distance that a homeowner must cross to shoot an intruder is less than 15 feet. That being said, double 00 buck in an 18.5" bbld weapon will generally lead to lethal results.. Not so with your avg hollow point.. At 15 feet the petals of the hollow point will not be open. You run the risk, especially if you live in an urban neighborhood, of overpenetration and inadvertently killing your neighbor. (10 foot setback in most neighborhoods) The shottie, I believe excels in this situation.. and FEW sounds are more chilling or distinct in the night than a Remington 870 being racked..
Only 8 posts and 'rictus' was nailed- I'm quite impressed! He might want to go over to 'Warrior Talk Forums' and see what Gabe Suarez does with a Saiga 12 ga. Basically, alot of damage in a very short period of time. My wife has the 20ga Mossberg with buttcuff and two #4 buckshot up the spout, ready to pump, for intruders in the night, while I have an 870 Remington ready to go(along with a few other dedicated weapon platforms, depending on the situation). Still, I like the rude, crude Russian 'Bounty Hunter' S/S Cowboy Action-type with fake double hammers and double triggers. It's short, light and there's just something about the BG staring down two really large black holes of death, plus the springs can remain at rest indefinately and it breaks down to a really compact, portable package. I think I named it 'Stalin' or 'Lenin'- but perhaps I should call it my 'Putin'! If it walks through a 12ga then you got more problems then Bernie Madoff or Hillary buying pantyhose that fit. BTW, 'rictus', I own an AR in 5.56-and an FNFAL- and a SOCUM 16- and some SKS'- and, well, I won't bore you any more plus I like the 22lr in it's appropiate role and pellet guns are fun and applicable to certain situations. Grow up and be a 'hoplophile', not a 'hoplo-snob'.
if anything the shotgun is the most versitile, can take out birds, deer, people, bears. a slug is pretty accurate up to around 100 yards and sometimes further. in new england unless your in a field your not even going to have that line of sight. have to love the trolls
WOW this thread is still going,lol well he atleast started a huge conversation. more than i can say about me
I miss Rictus..his posts always led to long informative discussions,bringing out ideas that normally might not have been brought out.Always wondered if he was one of the old-timers in an alter ego to make members think..
