Should Christians eat Pork?

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by skyking, Jun 21, 2011.


  1. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Clean and Unclean Meats: What Does the Bible Teach?

    Clean and Unclean Meats: What Does the Bible Teach?

    Are all kinds of animal flesh suitable for food? Did God design certain animals to be eaten and others not to be eaten? Are Christians free to eat any kind of food, ignoring the instructions of the Bible? Learn the surprising answers—and the science behind them—in this featured booklet.

    God gave all of His laws for good reasons. They teach us His standards-how to distinguish right from wrong, good from evil, beneficial from harmful. They teach us to distinguish the holy-that which God sets apart-from the common and ordinary. They define the way we, too, are to be holy, set apart for God's purposes.
    As we apply the biblical laws in our lives, they encourage us to think differently, to think more like God. They alter our perceptions. For example, keeping God's Sabbaths changes the way we think about and use our time. His laws of tithing alter our perception and use of our physical resources. In the same way, God's laws concerning meats that are appropriate or inappropriate for human consumption-referred to as "clean" and "unclean" in the Scriptures-change our perspective regarding many things we eat.
    God expects spiritual leaders to teach His people to distinguish between biblically right and wrong behavior. He says, through the prophet Ezekiel: ". . . They shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean" (Ezekiel 44:23, emphasis added throughout).
    Even though some of God's laws may appear unusual on the surface, and we may not immediately grasp their full purpose, they help us to avoid physical troubles and, more important, moral and spiritual infection. The Word of God provides a pattern for physically, spiritually and morally healthy living. God gives His principles of health and cleanliness for our lasting good, in this life as well as the one to come (1 Timothy 4:8).
    One reason for our existence is to learn to base our lives on the words of God (Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4; Deuteronomy 8:3). God's Word-the Bible-encompasses all aspects of our lives, including what we eat. Often people don't realize that God made distinctions that reveal which meats are appropriate for human beings to eat. Some believe these distinctions no longer apply. But, rather than relying on human opinion, let's consider these matters in the light of the Bible.......


    Rest of article here
    http://www.ucg.ca/booklets/CU/default.asp
     
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I've got 3 of them growin' in the back yard.
    Straw, Sticks and Bricks
    but before too long a name change will be in store.
    Change will be to, Ham,Bacon,Sausage and chops!

    [drooling]

    So damn, now I make a piss poor Muslim,Jew and a Christian too?

    Eff it, I'll start my own religion. It seems to be quite prophetable. PM me and I'll send you the address where you can send the checks to.
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  3. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    "Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian" (Galatians 3:23-25).
     
  4. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I finish mine on apples from the orchard for a month. Yuuuuummmmmy!
     
  5. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Bible Law 101

    Matthew 5:17-19
    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



    Clyde ,I appreciate your view point. This debate has raged on for years and will till the end. It does however allow believers like myself to present teachers and studies such as Bible Law 101 to those seeking truth and believe it or not ,many are right now. I'm a pretty simple person and I believe something as important as these subjects are to a child of Christ ,he would have never changed the meaning or times or his instructions from the start.What was then ,is what is now...Man and his traditions and basic misunderstanding and stiff necked pride have sure made a mess of things from the start..
    Bible Law 101 Home Page Dove%20and%20branch.

    List of Bible Law 101 Articles:





















    Jason Cassies web page
     
  6. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Kepha/Peter's vision


    Please allow this insert from this link as it's getting late and I can't improve on this anyway.
    http://www.eliyah.com/clean.html
    Kepha/Peter's vision
    Many believe that this commandment was abolished later in Acts chapter 10. Once again, let's take a close look at the context:
    Acts 10:1-14 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared Elohim with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to Elohim always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of Elohim coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before Elohim. 5 "Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 "He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do." 7 And when the angel who spoke to him had departed, Cornelius called two of his household servants and a devout soldier from among those who waited on him continually. 8 So when he had explained all these things to them, he sent them to Joppa. 9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Master! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
    Now consider this, Peter (Kepha) declares that he has never eaten anything common or unclean. Yet this is many years after Yahushua's{ Jesus} my insertion resurrection and ascension. If Yahushua had declared all foods clean in Mark 7:19 or in any other instruction to the disciples, why would He refuse any request to do so? Continuing on...
    Acts 10:14-17 But Peter said, "Not so, Master! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What Elohim has cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. 17 Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant...
    Now many would like to stop right here and declare that it it is now acceptable to eat unclean animals. But according to the previous verse, Peter/Kepha himself didn't even know what the vision meant. How then can we interpret the vision? Kepha knew that it was always considered an "abomination" to eat the flesh of unclean animals and that we should not make ourselves "abominable" by eating them (Leviticus 20:25).
    Leviticus 20:25 'You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
    He knew that to eat such things was to make himself "abominable" in Yahweh's{ God} my insertion eyes. He also knew that for Yahweh to change His mind and say that what was once considered to be an "abomination" to eat is now perfectly holy and acceptable was not possibly what Yahweh meant.
    We can be sure He also knew that the Day of Yahweh would one day come and Yahweh would destroy those who ate swine's flesh. Therefore, to understand what was meant by the vision we must continue reading:
    Acts 10:17-28 Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate. 18 And they called and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Peter, was lodging there. 19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 "Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them." 21 Then Peter went down to the men who had been sent to him from Cornelius, and said, "Yes, I am he whom you seek. For what reason have you come?" 22 And they said, "Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears Elohim and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you." 23 Then he invited them in and lodged them. On the next day Peter went away with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man." 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But Elohim has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
    So this vision had nothing to do with Yahweh trying to show Kepha that it is now okay to eat unclean foods, but rather Yahweh was trying to show Kepha and the rest of the disciples that they needed to go to the Gentiles with the good news of Yahushua too! Yahushua had commanded the disciples to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations.." in Matthew 28 but up until that point they had not done so. So Yahweh sent a vision to Kepha to show him that contrary to popular opinion during that time it was not 'unlawful' or against the commandment of Yahweh to go "keep company with or go to one of another nation." The Jews would not do so because they considered the people too defiled and unclean to even keep company with. This was above and beyond anything Yahweh had ever commanded. Such enmity was never intended by Yahweh at all! It wasn't unlawful according to the Torah/Law of Yahweh, but the traditions of man. The word "unlawful" in the above verse is translated from the Greek word Athemitos (#111) which carries the following meaning:
    "This term refers primarily not to what is forbidden by ordinance but to violation of tradition or common recognition of what is seemly or proper." Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, Third Edition
    In Yahweh's law, it never says to separate yourself from the Gentile and treat him with contempt. Rather it says:
    Exodus 22:21 " You shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
    Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim.
    Therefore, it is clear that Yahweh never inspired or intended such practices. The mainstream teachers of Judaism were so obsessed with cleanliness that they added hundreds of laws to the Torah which Yahweh never intended or inspired. Kepha needed to be corrected in this area and this was the purpose of the vision.
    Acts 10:28-35 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But Elohim has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29 "Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for. I ask, then, for what reason have you sent for me?" 30 So Cornelius said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, 31 "and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of Elohim. 32 'Send therefore to Joppa and call Simon here, whose surname is Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea. When he comes, he will speak to you.' 33 "So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before Elohim, to hear all the things commanded you by Elohim." 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that Elohim shows no partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
    We'll stop here but later in the chapter, Yahweh works a miracle when He pours out His spirit unto the gentiles in the presence of the Jews by having them speak in tongues. So by reading the context of this vision, we gain understanding of what it means. What I have shared with you is exactly what it means because Kepha himself declared the meaning of the vision. If anyone speaks of any other meaning behind Kepha's vision, they are not speaking according to the scriptures.
    So why would Yahweh liken the Gentiles to unclean animals and tell Kepha to kill and eat them? This was Kepha's interpretation of Yahweh's vision, but He never did explain why he interpreted the vision this way. I believe the scriptures are able to illustrate clearly why he understood this vision this way, but this may require a deep understanding of what Yahushua has done for us if any of you are not already familiar with it.
    At one time Kepha was told by Yahushua:
    Mark 1:17-18 Then Yahushua said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men." 18 They immediately left their nets and followed Him.
    Now if you are a fisherman, the thing that you will do is catch fish, clean them and eat them. Thus, we have a similar statement by Yahushua in another place. When we become a believer in Yahushua, we must die to self so that Yahushua can live in us. In fact, we participate in Yahushua's death when we are baptized:
    Romans 6:4-6 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Messiah was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
    Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Messiah; it is no longer I who live, but Messiah lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of Elohim, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
    Thus, when we receive Yahushua and are baptized in His name, we are made dead (spiritually) because it is no longer we who live but Messiah who lives in us. We are cleansed and He lives in us. We are now the "body" of Yahushua.
    1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Messiah, and members individually.
    Romans 12:4-5 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Messiah, and individually members of one another.
    In light of this, remember that Yahushua said:
    John 6:54-56 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 "For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
    Mark 14:22-24 And as they were eating, Yahushua took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body." 23 Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
    Thus, when we partake of the body & blood of Messiah we are actually partaking of one another as well, for we are His body and we have been cleansed by His blood.
    So when it was told Kepha to "Kill and eat," it was a spiritual way of telling him to go to the Gentiles so that they can also be "crucified with Messiah" and be "buried with Him in baptism" so that they can also be a part of the body of Messiah, of which we all partake.
    This is exactly what happened. Kepha went to the Gentiles who were cleansed by Yahweh because of their faith and belief in Him, and they were baptized. But the Jews (those "of the circumcision") who were with Kepha were amazed:
    Acts 10:45-48 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify Elohim. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Master. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
    So the correct interpretation is revealed when we hear the correct interpretation as spoken by Kepha himself and we see what actually took place. It had nothing to do with Yahweh cleansing abominable animals. It had to do with Yahweh cleansing men who wanted to receive Yahushua.
     
  7. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    The Power of Words

    The Power of Words Hope this finds a good response here.It made me reflect on how my words or changing my words will affect others and my testimony..

    This short film illustrates the power of words to radically change your message and your effect upon the world.

    YouTube - The Power of Words
     
    UrbanFool likes this.
  8. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

  9. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

  10. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Did "Jesus Make All Foods Clean? Pt 1

    sorry for the two parts ,no way to link.
    You know Maria makes a good point here about
    JUSTIFICATION .We're told in scripture to be set apart .Is this one way to do it? Are Believers Allowed to Eat Unclean Foods in the New Testament? Did "Jesus Make All Foods Clean?"


    Did "Jesus Make All Foods Clean?"
    By Maria Merola

    [​IMG]

    Before I get into the "meat" of this teaching (no pun intended), I want to first pre-qualify what I am about to share by saying that I realize that many Christians are saved even if they continue to eat unclean foods. But this is not about JUSTIFICATION. This subject that I am about to discuss has to do with "going on to perfection" in Messiah and choosing that which is EXCELLENT, and not merely that which is PERMISSIBLE.

    What I am saying is that when we are born again and we receive the deposit of the Holy Spirit, YHWH first cleans up the big sins in our lives. Then as we grow in our faith, he takes us from "faith to faith from glory to glory." When I was first saved in 1981, I was delivered out of the Zodiac, witchcraft, anger, suicidal tendencies and other demonic things. But then as I yielded to the Holy Spirit over the years, he called me to stop celebrating Christmas and Easter. Then he called me to keep his Sabbath and Holy Feasts. Then he asked me to give up pork and shellfish. Little by little, he has sanctified me and set me apart. But I had the deposit of the Holy Spirit immediately back in 1981.

    Analogy of the New Computer

    I like to use the analogy of buying a new computer. When you first get the new computer, it has the entire operating system already programed into it (just like when we are born again we have the entire Torah deposited into us). But it took me years to figure out how to use all of the software and applications on my computer when I first bought it. The same thing holds true with Torah. Even though we receive the deposit of Torah right away when we enter into Covenant, it takes years for the Holy Spirit to teach us how put all of it into practice. But the more we yield, pray and seek his face, he shows us more things. Some people get saved and never grow into maturity, and so they stay on milk like baby Christians their entire life. I decided that I wanted all that YHWH had for me, because I wanted to walk in the fullness of his supernatural power. Walking in power involves living a crucified life, and this means dying daily to the old man and the desires of the flesh.

    Just a few years ago, before the Holy Spirit taught me what the scriptures had to say regarding unclean foods, I used to cite the very same scriptures that most Christians quote out of context regarding the eating of unclean foods. But Yahu'shua was always drawing a HUGE contrast between the "doctrines & commandments of men" versus the Laws of YHWH. I used to make the same mistake that most Christians make by lumping them all in together, but they are as different as night & day. Many Christians quote Matthew 15 as an argument in favor of eating unclean meats. But when you read the ENTIRE CHAPTER IN CONTEXT, you will see what Yahu'shua is teaching us:

    Matthew 15:

    2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

    3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also TRANSGRESS THE COMMANDMENT OF ELOHIM (GOD) by your TRADITION?

    Do you see that he is making a clear distinction between the COMMANDMENTS OF YHWH versus THE TRADITIONS OF MEN?

    In Matthew 15, Yahu'shua was NOT talking about unclean animals, he was specifically addressing this hand washing ritual that the Pharisees turned into a ceremonial man made law.

    If Yahu'shua was "making all meats clean" as many Christians suppose, he would be in direct contradiction to his own words, making him either a liar or a hypocrite or unstable:

    Matthew 5:

    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Did you get that?

    UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL PASS AWAY FROM THE LAW UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED!

    So the question is this, "has heaven and earth passed away yet"?

    Has all been fulfilled yet?

    No, it has not. Yahu'shua has not fulfilled all things in the Law & Prophets yet. He will complete these at his second coming and during his Millennial Reign. Until then, all of the law, (not even one PUNCTUATION MARK) of the Law has passed away!

    He goes on to say "whosoever teaches men to break even one of the LEAST of these commandments (dietary laws) shall be called LEAST in the Kingdom."

    Is Yahu'shua our Messiah, now called the "Least in the Kingdom"? Was he teaching us to break even the least commandment in the Torah? Was he teaching us to break dietary laws?

    Yahu'shua also cast demons into a heard of pigs showing us what he thought of them. Would he defile pigs with demons if they were now considered clean? And would he then tell us that we could eat demon infested animals?

    He would not have done this with sheep because they represent his flock---think about that for a moment.

    Okay, so let's continue in Matthew 15 to see what Yahu'shua was talking about:

    Matthew 15:

    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    9 But in vain they do worship me, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.

    20 These are the things which defile a man: but to EAT WITH UNWASHEN HANDS DEFILETH NOT A MAN.

    You will notice that he is NOT talking about eating pork or shellfish in this account. So what is he talking about? He is talking about "doctrines & commandments of men!"

    Now, let me ask you, who is the one who called these unclean animals an ABOMINATION? Men? or YHWH? Scripture tells us:

    Leviticus 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an ABOMINATION unto you:

    Leviticus 11:11 They shall be even an ABOMINATION unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in ABOMINATION.

    Leviticus 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an ABOMINATION unto you.

    Leviticus 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in ABOMINATION among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an ABOMINATION: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

    Leviticus 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an ABOMINATION unto you.

    Leviticus 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an ABOMINATION unto you.

    Leviticus 11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an ABOMINATION; it shall not be eaten.

    Leviticus 11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an ABOMINATION

    43 Ye shall not make yourselves ABOMINABLE with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves UNCLEAN with them, that ye should be DEFILED thereby.

    44 For I am YHWH your Elohim (God): ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Do you see how Christians are confusing the commandments of YHWH with the doctrines & commandments of men?

    Yahu'shua was rebuking the Pharisees for what? For honoring the commandments of YHWH? No!

    He was rebuking them for REPLACING Yah's commandments with their own!

    And that is exactly what Christians are doing to this day!

    They are REPLACING Yah's commandments and using the words of Yahu'shua out of context to cancel out his own commandments.

    Many Christians want to cancel out Yah's commandments concerning the dietary laws (clean versus unclean animals) and they use the words of Yahu'shua WAY OUT OF CONTEXT to make him look LAWLESS!

    No wonder why many Jews want nothing to do with this TWISTED LAWLESS JESUS IN THE CHURCH! I don't blame them!

    "Jesus" did not"make all meats clean" as many Christians believe. It does not say this in scripture at all.

    In 1st Corinthians 10:25 and in Romans 14, when the Apostle Paul addresses the issue of "eating meat" he is talking about the Greek word BROMA (clean meats) that may have been offered to an idol.

    The Greek Strong's Concordance defines the word used for "meat" in many of these passages:

    #1033. broma bro'-mah from the base of 977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonially) articles allowed or forbidden by the Jewish law:--meat, victuals.

    The term "broma" pertains to "clean meats" not pork or any other unclean foods. In fact, pork, shell fish and unclean animals are not even classified as "food" to YHWH, so it will never be defined as "food" in the scriptures.

    I used to use this scripture out of context to justify eating pork and unclean animals, but little did I realize back then, that the word being used here for "meat" is broma:
     
  11. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    Did Jesus Make all Foods Clean Pt2

    1 Timothy 4


    1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats (broma), which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

    4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

    5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    Often times I hear believers use these same scriptures out of context (and I used to do it too, before the Spirit taught me otherwise). Now that I have been corrected by the Holy Spirit about not eating unclean animals under the New Covenant, I can totally relate to all of you believers who are under the same misconception. So please do not think that I am judging you or that I am declaring that you are not saved if you are still eating unclean foods. If you have the "seal" of the Holy Spirit, he will gradually teach you all things and guide you into obedience to the Torah at a pace that is individual for each person.

    So what is Paul talking about in 1st Corinthians 10 & Romans 14? He is saying that if you don't know that the food you are about to eat has been offered to an idol, then don't ask, because an idol is nothing and has no power over your food. But if you do know about it then it will weaken your conscience, so it is better not to eat it. Yahu'shua said in Revelation 2:20-23 that the spirit of Jezebel teaches Yah's servants to "eat things sacrificed to idols" and for this he rebukes the Church of Thyratira for tolerating that spirit.

    If Yahu'shua had declared "all meats clean" then why did he CAST DEMONS INTO PIGS? Why then did Peter in Acts 10 say in his vision "not so Lord I have never eaten anything unclean"? If Peter's vision took place after Yahu'shua ascended back to the Father, would not Peter have already known that Yahu'shua (Jesus) allegedly made all meats clean? If Yahu'shua (Jesus) had made "all meats clean" as many suppose, why wouldn't Peter have known about this? Why did he "doubt" what the vision on the rooftop meant? Why did he say "not so Lord I have never eaten anything unclean"? If Yahu'shua (Jesus) had declared all meats clean, he would have eaten pork with his disciples on the beach instead of fish, and Peter would not have been astonished at the rooftop dream.

    In Mark 7, the corrupted Bible manuscripts from Alexandria Egypt added this into the text but it was not there to begin with:

    Mark 7:19 NASB & NIV For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

    The KJV does not add this parenthesis in there:

    Mark 7:19 KJV Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

    Once again the word for "meats" here in the Greek Textus Receptus in Mark 7:19 in the Strong's Concordance is:

    #1033: broma bro'-mah from the base of 977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonially) articles allowed or forbidden by the Jewish law:--meat, victuals.

    The NKJV says this in Mark 7:19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?

    What did he mean? He was telling them that the digestive system and liver will eliminate germs in "clean meats" (broma),so that hand washing was not necessary.Yahu'shua declared "clean meats" (broma) as sanitized by the liver and digestive system but he did not declare "unclean animals" clean.

    So what was the "straw that broke the camel's back" that finally made me see that I was in error when I used all of these verses out of context to justify eating unclean foods in the New Testament?

    What really did it for me was when I was ministering to a Messianic Jewish young man who struggled with homosexuality. He knew that it was a sin, and he wanted deliverance from it. But he had an issue with knowing that I still ate unclean foods. He and I had a discussion about it one day back in 2006, and he said this to me:

    "Why is it that in Leviticus 18:22, YHWH calls homosexuality an abomination, and yet in Leviticus 11, he calls unclean animals an Abomination too; and yet Christians think that unclean foods are no longer an abomination in the New Testament, yet they still believe that homosexuality is an abomination."

    He went on to ask me this:

    "How do you determine which laws out of the Old Testament still apply for today, and which ones no longer apply?"

    Well that is what did it for me! I was "picking and choosing" the commandments that were convenient for me to obey and the ones that I did not want to give up, I explained it away with only New Testament scriptures.

    I realized that I was being a hypocrite by preaching against homosexuality (and rightfully so) yet I was still eating pepperoni, shrimp, crab cakes, lobster etc. It was at that point that I realized that if I really love my fellow man (especially someone who struggles with homosexuality) and my unclean meat is causing him to stumble, I had to "die to self" and give up unclean foods once and for all! After all, if Yahu'shua died for us and gave his life, isn't it a small sacrifice to give up these things? And besides, our bodies do not belong to us for we have been "bought with a price" so we do not have the right to defile it. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit so we should treat it with respect.

    Now, I certainly believe that homosexuality is against nature and it is an abomination. But I also believe that eating pork and shellfish are an abomination too. Why? Because YHWH says so in Leviticus 11. That is all I need to know. But some Christians that I talk to rationalize that while homosexuality is addressed in the first chapter of Romans and in 1st Corinthians 6, they say that there is no mention of abstaining from unclean animals in the New Testament; therefore they rationalize that Peter's rooftop vision in Acts 10 was giving us permission to eat unclean. But Peter went on to explain the vision to his Jewish brethren and he emphasized that his vision was a METAPHOR about being allowed to go into the homes of Gentiles.

    So how do we establish what sin is in the New Testament?

    1st John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Eating pork, and homosexuality are equally in Yah's eyes a "transgression of the law", and they are both called an abomination. That is why Yahu'shua cast demons into them. Some Christians argue "why doesn't the New Testament tell us not to eat unclean animals?"

    My answer is this:

    "We don't have to have the New Testament scriptures as a fourth witness to establish doctrines about not eating pork or shellfish because we only need the two or three witnesses of the Law, Prophets & Psalms to establish a matter" as this was the litmus test that Yahu'shua gave us on how to establish New Testament doctrine.

    Yahu'shua already commanded us to obey Moses:

    Matthew 23:

    1 Then spake Yahu'shua (Jesus) to the multitude, and to his disciples,

    2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

    3 All therefore whatsoever HE (referring to Moses) bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

    *Note: In the Greek Text of this verse the word "they" is incorrect. But in the Hebrew Text of the book of Matthew, the word is "he" not "they" and so we know that Yahu'shua is telling us NOT to obey the Pharisees, but DO OBEY WHATSOEVER MOSES BIDS YOU TO OBSERVE!

    JUSTIFICATION or SANCTIFICATION?

    Many Christians confuse these two things but they are different. We are justified by grace through faith:

    Ephesians 2:

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of Elohim (God):

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    But, once we are"justified by grace through faith", we are commanded to WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR & TREMBLING! (Philippians 2:12).

    So then the Holy Spirit Sanctifies us (separates us from the world) by teaching us to obey the commandments and he writes them in our hearts and in our minds under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:10 & 10:16).

    We are NOT JUSTIFIED by "works of the law" but we are SANCTIFIED by the Holy Spirit who then teaches us to obey the Laws of YHWH!

    The New Covenant is the same covenant as the Old Covenant, the only difference is that now it has been transferred from Stone into fleshy tables of the heart (2nd Corinthians 3:3). Nothing has changed except for the form that the law comes to us in! No longer is it in Stone but the Holy Spirit enables us to keep it, because it comes to us now in an incorruptible form which is the person of Messiah himself!

    So What Changed with the New Covenant?

    The Law in Stone Tablets or in Scrolls or parchment, paper etc. are in a corruptible form because they can be destroyed. Likewise Yahu'shua came in corruptible form in the flesh so that he could destroy the sinful nature on the cross. Yahu'shua became the Law in a corruptible form,(his own body) and his body was broken in the same way that the tablets were broken by Moses when the children of Israel were seen worshiping the golden calf.

    Now if Yahu'shua became the Law in corruptible flesh and his corruptible flesh was destroyed (the law in corruptible form being also destroyed) then what happened to Yahu'shua's body?

    He put on "incorruption" and so this means that as his body resurrected and became incorruptible, so the law/Torah also resurrected and became INCORRUPTIBLE through the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!

    His nature was incorruptible and he has given us this same "Incorruptible New Nature" whereby the SAME commandments are now transferred from a corruptible form (stone tablets or paper which can be destroyed) to our incorruptible hearts, or our NEW NATURE! The Law in Stone was crucified with Messiah but the Law was also resurrected into an incorruptible form called THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE! (Romans 8:4)

    How Should We Establish New Testament Doctrine?

    At one time I was like most Christians in my belief that the New Testament scriptures were more credible (or at least equally as credible), and somehow more profitable for reproof and for doctrine than the Old Testament. I used to think that this verse was only talking about the New Testament scriptures:

    2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of Elohim (God), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    But what I did not understand at one time is that when this letter to Timothy was written by Shaul (Paul), the New Testament had not gone into print yet. "All Scripture" was referring to the "two or three witnesses" that Yahu'shua referred to when telling us "how to establish a matter." When Paul wrote about "All Scripture" he meant "The Torah" (5 Books of Moses), The Prophets, & The Psalms.

    My understanding of things has changed as I have spent more time in prayer over the past few years. The Holy Spirit has been teaching me some basic principles about "hermeneutics", and how to interpret New Testament doctrine. I, like most Christians, used to place the New Testament scriptures above the Old Testament scriptures in their authority.

    But then in 2007 when I was in a time of intense prayer and fasting, the Holy Spirit said to me "Maria, the Double Portion Anointing is that of Moses & Elijah," and as he said this I had a vision of Yahu'shua at the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses & Elijah. I suddenly realized that he had both anointings on his life (law & prophets). That is who the two witnesses are!

    Yahu'shua said "out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established" (Matthew 18:16). I used to think that this was merely two or three people. But now I see what he was pointing to. He was also teaching us how to establish New Testament Doctrine!

    We see the same pattern of the "two or three witnesses" as the pattern on how to establish a matter in Deuteronomy 17:6, 19:15, 2nd Corinthians 13:1, 1st Timothy 5:19 & in Hebrews 10:28.

    In the first 60 years after Yahu'shua died on the cross, what did the disciples use to preach the gospel with? The Torah (5 books of Moses). The New Testament scriptures had not gone into print yet, so what did the disciples teach the Gentiles with every Sabbath Day? The Torah! When Paul wrote letters to churches, what was he quoting out of? The Torah. What did Jesus quote? Moses and the Prophets, the Old Testament. All New Testament doctrine is established on the Torah and Prophets. The New Testament does not supersede the Old Testament. The New Testament is the icing on the cake. But the Torah, Prophets & Psalms are the very foundation upon which all New Testament doctrine rests.

    Yahu'shua Messiah is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY & FOREVER (Hebrews 13: icon_cool. and HE DOES NOT CHANGE!

    It was he who wrote the commandments in Stone "written with the finger of God" for Moses. So why would he change his mind in the New Testament? He said that all of the law was still in effect until heaven and earth pass away. (Matthew 5:17-19) When Yahu'shua said "out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established" he was not merely talking about two or three individuals, but he was also showing us the pattern of Moses & Elijah (law & prophets). These two witnesses are what we establish all doctrine upon. We do not form brand new doctrine in the New Testament. Yahu'shua said this:

    Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the Law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me.

    These are the two or three witnesses: LAW, PROPHETS & PSALMS. We cannot form some "new fangled" doctrine in the New Testament.

    We establish ALL DOCTRINE on these two or three witnesses. If it does not agree with these two or three witnesses, it is false doctrine. All things written about Yahu'shua Messiah have not all been fulfilled yet. There is more to be fulfilled at his second coming, and so we still have the Law in effect until all is fulfilled.

    Obeying the Torah/Law/Instructions is NOT the pre-requisite to being saved, but the Holy Spirit will teach us to obey it if we truly are saved by grace through faith. If someone is "lawless" (without Torah) and yet they say that they are "born again" they have not received the true Holy Spirit, but some other strange spirit.

     
  12. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I don't think you are focusing on what is important. You see, the Jews were doing the same sort of judgement at the time of Jesus. He was clear on the subject:

    Matt 15:10

    [/FONT]
    Hence the distinguishing difference between pork and homosexuality.

    Jesus=Lord.... right?

    If so, and the Lord says that he's not worried with pork, I think I'd listen.

    JMHO.

    There are two commandments that we should be concerned with-
    Love God with all your heart
    Love thy brother as thyself

    How does pork fit into that in light of Matt 15:10? It sounds to me that it isn't a concern at all (unless you consider pigs your brother). How does homosexuality fit into that? From numerous old AND NEW testament examples, it's still wrong. My human read into why- the numerous problems with that lifestyle create problems for thy brother, oh and.... God says its wrong in the new covenant.

    That's just my take. This is an interesting topic, but all the cut and paste gets old and makes the subject foggy.

    Jesus goes on to say:

    So the real question is: Are YOU still so dull?

    [soap] I'll step down now.... sorry.
     
    Witch Doctor 01 and Clyde like this.
  13. TXKajun

    TXKajun Monkey+++

    Just to throw in another train of thought: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9


    Kajun
     
  14. skyking

    skyking Monkey+


    The pattern is always grace through faith, works then follow...faith without works is dead

    When you make that move or acceptance you enter into a blood covenant and are bound by that covenant.It's not a one sided deal and you start "working "out your part of the covenant by obeying and following certain commandments,statutes set for by God ,not Jesus.He came to make atonement right enough ,he also came to lead us back to the teachings or instructions.
     
  15. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

    No I'm not missing the point I'm saying even Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean way back in Gen 7 and Lev 11 and 18 talk about the unclean foods and homosexuality as being an abomination and I just can't see how any of that has changed.Your church probably would eat pork after a service but I doubt they would allow homosexual activity downstairs ,so what changed in mans eyes or Yahua's eyes .
    Dull ,funny he wasn't talking about meat he was referring to the laws and restrictions the Pharisees had placed on jews and gentiles alike and the hand washing was one of them ,it's no where in scripture is it?.

    The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
     
    Hispeedal2 likes this.
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    My point is- who cares? If God changes it, it doesn't matter. Are we questioning Jesus?


    While hand washing was the original topic, Jesus clearly spoke "“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?" Jesus is clearly indicating the lack of importance in what you eat and what you put into your body. You can't overlook the word "whatever".

    The New Testament is the Old Testament FULFILLED.

    I'm not sure why you are saying that accepting the New Covenent means you are bound to the Old Covenent. Logically, if we are bound to the Old Covenant anyway, I would just regress to Judaism. The whole point of the New Covenant at all? The point is that acts can't get you to heaven. No one can get to heaven through their acts. It's your heart, not your dinner.

    Are we to begin sacrificing animals too? Are women to be cast out now during that time? Are we breaking earthenware that is unclean? Are we stoning homosexuals? Why pick and choose swine in this discussion?

    Accept that you cannot get to heaven on your own. Accept Jesus.
    Love God with all your heart.
    Love thy neighbor as thyself.
    It doesn't get anymore complicated than this ^

    I think the best place to refer to what the Old Covenant means after the New Covenant, we should read the letter to the Hebrews:
    Based on that alone, I wouldn't look to the Old Testament for how a Christian should live. I would look to the New Testament. I agree that a Christian is to strive to be an example to all (mentioned several times in New Testament) and should make life changes accordingly. You are just looking backward instead of forward in the Book. There are more than enough examples from sexual immorality to drunkenness spelled out for the Gentiles in the New Testament. Of course the main two per Jesus are listed above ^.

    I will add this- if you want to stand on your head to Glorify God, it will please Him. So, if you want to swear off unclean meat for that purpose, awesome. I had a good, Christian friend in college that decided that he would go by Paul's decision not to eat. He was a football player and we did manual labor in college. He lasted for about all of a couple weeks before he was so weak he couldn't continue. What this should not become is a wedge:
     
    Clyde likes this.
  17. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I love ham and bacon on my Pizza. YMMV
     
  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

     
  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

     
  20. skyking

    skyking Monkey+

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