SHTF gun selections

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by cool hand luke, Mar 9, 2011.


  1. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    I should have mentioned a few books that might be of help to you. SURVIVAL GUNS by Mel Tappan (deltapress.com) was put out in 1976, so it is horribly dates, many of the guns are not made any more, and the guns he recommends for people at the end, laughable, but it is STILL the best book ion the subject out there.

    The second book I would recommend is BOSTON'S GUN BIBLE 2nd ed (javelinpress.com).

    How about Kurt Saxon's stuff (survivalplus.com)? The SURVIVOR and PMJB series are both great fun and well worth reading. The videos he put out are party favorites too. The one where he blows up his basement making ANTI had us laughing until we nearly fell down. Buy these from Kurt, first he needs the money, and second, if everyone who puts out anything good is ripped off right away, pretty soon there won't BE any new stuff!
     
  2. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I have a Diana 48 with a 3x9; it is extremely accurate and for small game under 30 yards it is quite effective. Its advantage is it doesn't ruin as much meat as a CF or a RF. I would not agree that it is quiet.
    JMHO, but a survival firearm will be whatever firearm you have.
     
  3. AlaskaErik

    AlaskaErik Monkey++

    The 10-22 has lots of aftermarket accessories, so I consider it the obvious choice. Buy two as well as spare parts and lots of bricks. It will be the perfect SHTF rifle for small game.
     
  4. Disciple

    Disciple Monkey+

    I would not be afraid to use a 10/22 for hunting small game at all. I would to take a look at the new ruger sr-22 to see if it is a viable option also for small game.
     
  5. One concept that hasn't been discussed yet - the modular carbine. That AR can be scaled up to 6.8 SPC and down to .22 LR by swapping upper and magazine. Disadvantages are the increased expense and that you only have 1 at a time - which is why I have 2 ARs. Advantages include savings on space and cube if you need to pack everything up. My opinion only, here.
     
  6. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    No need for an upper to convert an ar to .22 Conversion kits are $200.00 for the replacement bolt and a mag. They work OK if kept well oiled.
     
  7. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant


    I would take that a little farther. Im 52 now but when I was a young brat we killed deer with a .22. Also Violators have been killing deer for as long as Ive been alive with .22 RIFLES AT NIGHT.

    I would not do this lightly mind you. If I were in a life or death situation shtf and I needed to conserve my .30 cal ammo for defense I would use .22 rimfire for the taking of any animal here in Lower Michigan except elk.

    The trick to using the .22 is using the right ammo. I find the best killing round for any larger game to be the new CCI Velocitor. It exits the barrel at 1400 plus fps and is still going 1100 at 100 yards. Expansion of this round is to 38 caliber on impact with bone meaning a head shot on a deer is a dead deer. To use a .22 for deer head shots are a must and close range is even more important. Tree stands and bait have given me 10 yard shots with bow and arrow for 30 years. No reason a .22 rifle could not be used out to 50 yards with a good accurate bolt action rifle. My Marlin 981T groups at 1 inch at that range.

    Rabbits and squirrels, Geese, ducks, swans, and raccoons can all be killed easily with CCI cb longs which are quiet and very effective on small game.

    Stepping up to bigger game requires the use of the fastest and most powerful of the rimfire rounds . CCI Stingers were always the favorite of poachers until the Velocitor came along. Mini mags, and Agulia are also good choices.

    Deer and bigger game should always be taken with the right tool if given the choice. I use a 30-06 rifle and a Barnet Crossbow( I used to use an old Bear White tail II) compound. Now my eyes need scopes to be effective.

    If I had to rely on a .22 MY SHOT PLACEMENT WOULD CHANGE FROM THE CHEST TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD OR RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES. I would follow up with a heart shot and then get down from the tree and cut its throat.

    I am a veteran of over 100 legal deer kills. Most with my old Bear compound bow and the rest with an old 30-40 Krag and now a scoped 30-06. I did kill one as a kid with one .22 CCI Stinger to the head. The shot was around 70 yards from a car window. I was like 19. Im not proud of that but am glad today that I know what a .22 can do. There is so much bad press abut .22 rifles that I have to shake my head and walk away most of the time. You guys here are intelligent men so Im telling you. Using the right ammo a .22 is a deadly deer killing round when coupled with an accurate rifle and used at close range or at night. Ill trust my .22 rifles to feed my family if the crap goes into the sewer. Ill save my big power ammo for defense. Kingfish
     
    VisuTrac likes this.
  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Most hogs are hard to drop; yet using a 22rf used to be a common way to put them down at butchering time.
    Killing with a 22rf is no different than any other caliber; it is shot placement and what the bullet has when it gets there. In a survival situation too much power is as bad as not enough.
    There isn't much too a bird, but there is a lot more left when shot with a precision spring rifle as compared to 5,56.
     
    Kingfish likes this.
  9. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Ive been in maybe 50 discussions on the lethality of the .22 rimfire and after many debates and tests both penetration and accuracy we have proven a number of times that the .22 CAN be used as a survival rifle in most states. Now when you get north of us and Bears are common, Elk, Moose and other real big game the .22 IS NOT going to do the job. In Michigan where I live the biggest game are deer and they are not really that big. In most instances deer here are under 150 lbs dressed. Most are barely 100 lbs dressed.

    Ronald Reagan was shot with a .22 Hand gun . The bullet was traveling under 1000 feet per second and it glanced off the side off the armored limo and hit him in the armpit. The impact with the car flattened the bullet out like a dime. The story said that he would have been dead in 15 minutes if he had not gotten the immediate blood transfusion that he recieved. As it was he almost bled to death in 10 minutes. Brady was on the ground on impact of the bullet that hit him. So any talk I ever hear about the weakness of the .22 I feel needs to be addressed. Underestimating any firearm can lead to death.

    We have three .22 rifles. I mentioned my Marlin 981T and we have a nice Ruger 10-22 and an old nylon Remington semi auto tube fed. The Ruger has been tested so harshly that I would trust it in gun fight if it was all I had. It goes bang every time and is plenty accurate. I keep four 30 round mags with 25 velocitors in each one. All of my magazine work perfect in my rifle and even have been tested in extreme cold weather. If I were ever forced to leave my farm and resupply I would carry that Ruger and My wife would carry the 981 and would each carry 1000 rounds. You cant carry that many rounds with any other rifle except maybe a 17 hmr or a .22 Mag. Kingfish
     
    IR192 likes this.
  10. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As most rounds would ricochet off armor; what if a 30-06 would have bounced off?
     
  11. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    It would have been ugly. Most likely would have blown a hole right through him. The bullet could have even fragmented into several parts causing some massive trama. A 30-06 travels at almost 3000 feet per second. I shudder to even think about getting hit with one. I shoot deer every year with mine and the exit holes always are gruesome.

    The purpose of my post there was to show that even at slow speeds and off a deflection a .22 can still kill a man sized target. Kingfish
     
  12. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    It is pretty much always ugly. 22rf is a good survival caliber, less noise and effective.
    Plus someone with a 22 probably will do their best to avoid contact which potentially could be the key to survival.
     
  13. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I'm new so I don't know if the etiquette is to edit the post to add something new or add a post??

    Where I live there are a lot of trees and heavy brush. I can pop a coyote on the road (dirt, private and into a steep hill) with a 22 at 75 yards. However, 50 yards through the brush is center fire country. Where I live getting the shot is more of a problem than making it.
    Using war as another example; it is the terrain in Korea and the Middle East which makes sniping kills at great distances so much more common than during WWII or Vietnam.
    Carlos Hathcock made a long distance shot in Vietnam because he was good enough to make it and the area around US Base camps was usually cleared.
     
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Much of the sniping in Europe during WWII, was done in urban, and industrial areas, where buildings provided the required cover for the sniper. In the Pacific, the Japanese used trees, caves, and spider holes, for cover while sniping, but these were at fairly short ranges. The Gilly-suit has added a significant dimension, to the required cover, for the sniper, but the ranges that snipers work at are still terrain limited.
     
  15. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    The terrain of Iraq and Afghanistan lacks the vegetation of SE Asia or the Pacific. Korea offered open terrain which produced 1000 yard shots with the 03A1 and Unertl.

    M1903A1 Sniper Rifle
     
  16. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have wondeful terrain where I live. I can choose from rolling hills and hardwoods to swamps and river bottoms and even open fields. I have the main 4 calibers in 30-06,.22 rimfire, 20 gauge and 9mm handgun. I think we have just over 10,000 rounds of .22 and 3 thousand of those are high quality CCI stuff. Lots of bricks of cheap crap for squirrels and small game. I even have 400 of those CCI CB Longs. Im pretty confident in my selections regarding rifles , shotguns and handgun. Even better I have 5 other guys to team up with that all have good gear as well. We train every month and that training is more important then any rifle I could own. Kingfish
     
  17. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Where I live the terrain is steep, rugged mountains and heavily forested. There is game and water. I've have plenty of firearms (MBR, AR, BG) and ammunition for them.

    As I was trained and served as light infantry. I learned there is a lot more to being a "dumb grunt" than I thought. This gives me a different perspective on what a group can train to do and how different survival is as compared to shtf.
     
  18. STANGF150

    STANGF150 Knowledge Seeker

    Just remember, the most powerful weapon you have you can not buy! The most powerful weapon in yer arsenal is your Mind!! Cuz Knowledge Is Power! Good strategy & tactics with a weak gun is far better than a powerful gun an the belief that is all you need.
     
  19. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    This thread can go on forever and probably will.

    The best shtf gun is the one that:
    Is reliable
    You are comfortable shooting (i'm gonna pass on the .577 Trex thank you)
    You are consistent with (i.e. you know where it's gonna hit from 10 yards out to xxxx)
    You can afford to feed (.50 cal out of my price range. .22LR more like it)
    and one that you can get at (If your at home and it's at the BugOut location not a good choice)

    And the kicker. The award can hardly go to a single weapon. Each has their strengths and limitations. so why not have multiple SHTF guns.

    .22LR Revolver or pistol or rifle (pest control,hunting,sniper)

    Revolver in .38spl/.357 or .44 if you handload (close in defense few moving parts to break)

    Pistol in 9mm,.40 or .45 acp. (more rounds available but more parts that could wear out, get lost during field strip/clean, or break)

    Pump Shotgun (rem 870 or mossberg 500) with bird barrel and slug barrel 12/20ga your choice (close in put it down forever defense,hunting bird to grizzly) Reliable, lots of options for stocks and magazines etc.

    then it gets tricky.
    Carbine or Rifle (depends on your AO)
    Bolt, pump, lever action or Semi Auto
    Caliber

    If you are in a target rich environment with short distances I'd probably go with a Semi Auto Carbine.(urban?) .223 or 7.62x39

    How about in brush bottom land, either a pump, lever or semi auto again in carbine length. probably .30-30, 7,62x39 or something a bit more substantial than the .223 but in a common caliber in your area.

    but out west or across long fields or even urban where the distance to the target are long, .308,.30-06,7.62x54R. Bolt gun is probably going to be your best bet. But if you have multiple targets, a high quality Semi Auto maybe the required pill delivery system.

    You probably noticed that i left out your favorite gun or caliber. Thats ok, this is just a starter. Just so long as you have enough ammo or supplies to make more rounds for years to come, that's fine.

    In my location
    .22LR,12 Gauge,and .223 are going to work just fine. It would probably work in Alaska also. But I think I'd be $hitting my pants trying to take a moose with a 12 gauge. But it would put it down. I also prefer head shots cause you can't eat antlers and I'm not a trophy hunter.

    Again the above is just my opinion, you are entitled to yours also. [beer]
     
  20. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Actually Visu, A shotgun with slugs makes a nice Moose Gun, as well as a very effective Coastal Brown Bear Gun, in my Rain Forest neighborhood. You almost never get a shot out past 100 Yds, which is well within a Slug Guns effective range. UP North, in Tundra country, the Long-shot Rifles, make more sense, but if your shooting at animals, at ranges longer than 300 Yds, you need to practice up on your "Stock" and "Sneak" capabilities.....
     
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