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So you wondered why they needed all that AMMO? Poor Accounting Again

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by HK_User, May 1, 2014.

  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Report finds $1 billion in forgotten ammunition to be scrapped by military

    Sen. Tom Carper, (D-Del), wants the military to keep better track of its ammo. (Photo credit: Charles Dharapak/AP)
    A Government Accountability Office (GAO) report into management of the nation’s ammunition stockpiles found that more than $1 billion worth of munitions are slated for destruction.
    The 51-page report, compiled in March, was publicly released Monday and has already enraged some members of Congress.
    “There is a huge opportunity to save millions, if not billions of dollars if the (Pentagon) can make some common-sense improvements to how it manages ammunition,” said Sen. Tom Carper, (D-Delaware). Carper served as a naval aviator in Vietnam and currently serves as chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.
    In an agreement in place since 1975, the Army serves as the Department of Defense’s (DOD) manager of small arms ammunition. Most of this $70 billion ammunition cache is stored in a series of eight Army depots that have about 30.5 million square feet of storage space and, as of August 2013, housed 1.7 million tons of conventional ammunition belonging to all of the military services.
    The study found that of the various military branches only the Army has a modern inventory management system to account for its stockpile, which the systems of the Navy, Air Force and Marines cannot interface with.
    As explained in the report, the services meet annually to discuss their current inventory levels and any surpluses they have at what is called the Quad Services Cross-Leveling Review. There, for instance, should the Army have surplus munitions that the Marine Corps can use, a transfer or sharing of ammo is arranged.
    In 2012, approximately 44 million “items,” of which 32 million were classified as small-caliber items such as ammunition for machine guns or pistols, were transferred across the services following the annual review. The other 12 million items included demolition materials such as detonation cords, fuses and pyrotechnic initiators, and ground defense items such as grenades.
    The Army, through its system of ammunition plants and contractors such as ATK’s Lake City plant, shown here, is the primary manager for the DOD’s small arms ammo. (Photo credit: John Sleezer/The Kansas City Star)
    While the report states that the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) screens any surplus inventory that is not redistributed at this annual meeting for foreign military sales, much of it never leaves the country. According to the DSCA’s database (xls), the last sale of surplus ammunition to a U.S. ally was a transfer of 1.4 million rounds of mixed ammunition in sizes from .22LR to 90mm to Lebanon in 2010 for $179,825.
    Shockingly, the report contends once the review and swap is over for the year, and the DSCA transfers what it can to allied nations, the remainder of the ammunition is slated for potential disposal and written off — even if it is still usable. This has led to a growing stockpile of surplus munitions calculated at 557,000 tons, representing a $1 billion liability.
    Further, the Army, up until last month, did not grant the other services inventory information about its stockpile of surplus missiles, even though several types such as the Hellfire and Javelin are also used by the other branches.
    To this the GAO states, “There is risk that the services may budget for funds to procure new supplies of conventional ammunition to meet a requirement when the ammunition items already are available in the DOD inventory but categorized for demilitarization or disposal.”
    An additional GAO report released Tuesday on product support managers over acquisitions programs noted that the DOD also needed to “enhance oversight of estimated long-term costs for operating and supporting major weapon systems.”
    This has some in Congress seeing red.
    “We simply cannot afford this type of waste and ineffectiveness,” Sen. Carper said. “The (Pentagon) has a responsibility to efficiently manage its ammunition stocks, not only because it is important to be fiscally responsible, but also because our antiquated ammunition inventory systems can shortchange our war fighters and compromise their ability to complete their mission.”
    The GAO, for its part, is recommending that the all services move to the Army’s inventory management system to streamline ammunition stockpile information among a number of other improvements. These include having the Army share data about unclaimed surplus munitions categorized for disposal as well as allow the other services information on its missile inventory, which it promises to implement by the end of 2015.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
    chelloveck likes this.
  2. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Interesting article HK. Many things come to mind regards whittling down the surplus of ammo inventory.

    1. Restrict placement of new orders for new stock of which natures are overstocked and serviceable for operational and training purposes.
    2. Increase allocations of ammo for training purposes for Regulars, Reserves and National Guards, and Coast Guard.
    3. Make small arms training and range practices compulsory for all members of the federal government, Congress and The Senate on Saturdays and Sundays and Public Holidays until the stockholdings of ordnance and ammunition is adequately managed to avoid major surpluses of ammunition from re-occurring.
    4. Divert some of the concomitant reduction in SAA manufacturing demand to manufacturing ammo types for civilian calibres to resolve the fricken shortage of .22lr ammo et al.
    5. Substitute 25% of politician salaries with payment in kind...i.e. .223 or .308 ammo of their choice. The politicians can then on sell it if they wish, at cost price only on Craig's List, until such times as the national inventory is under manageable control.....hhhmmmm....on second thoughts...armed and bombed up politicians are probably the last things we'd want....:eek:

    Edit: Interesting that a Democrat is whistle blowing for a fiscally conservative proposal....evidently he may not have any ammunition or explosives industry constituents in his State or doesn't care to pander to them. ;)
    Yard Dart and Witch Doctor 01 like this.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    WTF, they consider the 577k tons a one billion dollar liability?
    Who is doing their accounting? That is an asset in my book!
  4. NWPilgrim

    NWPilgrim Monkey++

    They can afford to throw away $1 BILLION of ammo but can't afford to build a modern asset tracking system? Simple. Tell them no more ammo purchases until shared asset tracking is in place.

    I am sure many commander and sergeants love that nobody can look over their shoulder and hold them accountable for inventory. Cozy.
    Mike, chelloveck, Sapper John and 3 others like this.
  5. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    I wish that we had that lack of accountability... we did ammo count on return from patrol...... just to ensure the after action report matched up with activity or not.... stupid.....
    Mike and HK_User like this.
  6. Capt. Tyree

    Capt. Tyree Hawkeye

    Surely some of that ammo is just old metallic cartridge ammunition usable by the general public for training in the proper caliber firearms. Surely the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) could stand a "resupply" from .gov, and in turn sell that old ammo to CMP-eligible US citizens for a decent profit for .gov as well as CMP. Surely not all of it is ordinance unauthorized for civilian distribution. Ah shucks, that probably makes just too much sense (or cents).
    kellory, Mike, HK_User and 7 others like this.
  7. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Simple: sell the ammunition at at discount to an investor who will then sell all the surplus ammo to those in need.

    That is how it works in the real world or oversupply economics.
    CaboWabo5150, kellory, Tracy and 2 others like this.
  8. TexasAggie

    TexasAggie Monkey+

    The company that created the Obama Care website is looking for some more work.

    We had to report on all of our ammo after ever range event. We usually had extra rounds because we could not return less than a full box.
    Mike likes this.
  9. DKR

    DKR Interesting ideas, interesting stories

    "The 51-page report, compiled in March, was publicly released Monday and has already enraged some members of Congress.
    “There is a huge opportunity to save millions, if not billions of dollars if the (Pentagon) can make some common-sense improvements to how it manages ammunition,” said Sen. Tom Carper, (D-Delaware).

    Be careful that you don't fall off of your high horse there Senator... How many billions are lost each year to welfare fraud? Medicare and Medicade fraud? How many billions lost to tax fraud (as in 1000s of tax returns going to a single PO Box?) All because the systems used to track the dough are outdated/inadequate for the task. Even the FAA computer system is falling apart.

    I could go on, the ammo thing is less than a drop in the bucket in the total amount of my tax money pissed away or stolen every year, yet the same CONgress critters are silent on the other.

    Maybe the good Senator has an axe to grind with the military?

    The FedGov has a long and frankly piss-poor rotten track record when it comes to the purchase and use of IT systems. The most recent ACA debacle proves the obvious point. I'm sure most of us can point to a State or County that failed in an expensive effort update/upgrade an IT system in the recent past.

    Before you all point to the private sector as an example, think again. I'm writing stuff for a bank, right now, that is still using COBOL programs - because they work. 1984 isn't only about politics...(COBOL 80) (So ya, what's new)
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Common sense in the context of Congress? What are you smoking Carper? I want some soma, which is what I think it has to be.
    Yard Dart, oldawg and Mike like this.
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