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socialist elected in Seattle

Discussion in 'Politics' started by CATO, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    great. An anarchist and a thief. I believe she is conspiring to commit grand theft, menacing, trespass, and a few dozen other charges. if she is to be taken seriously. there is no way to take and hold the plant, and prevent the machines being moved, without threat of force and bodily harm. She is calling for an armed mob.

    here is a thought, Councilmember, use your own money to build your own plant, and run it the way you choose, and where you choose, . And keep your thieving hands of other people's property.[contract]
    tulianr likes this.
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Socialist Seattle city councilwoman says workers should take over Boeing and make buses - The Dori Monson Show - MyNorthwest.com
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  4. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    In a way I almost hope they try her idea. Let them try and run a company without execs. I give it 2 months tops before there's nothing left. Then wait and see what her explanation is, and if the workers form a mob to go after her.
  5. Cruisin Sloth

    Cruisin Sloth Special & Slow

    Your talking about Nancy Pelosi

    It was A Joke , As with ~~~~~~~~
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  6. Sapper John

    Sapper John Analog Monkey in a Digital World

    Wow. somebody is a few french fries short of a Happy Meal...
    Yard Dart likes this.
  7. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+ Founding Member

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  8. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    Dude, she is a socialist, not an anarchist. Big difference and I am offended by your libelous comments lumping anarchists with thieves and politicians.
    cjsloane and CATO like this.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    She is calling for an armed mob to steal. She is an anarchist inspiring theft. I find THAT offensive.
  10. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    You truly have a dizzying logic. Do you even know what an anarchist is?
    cjsloane likes this.
  11. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    She is no anarchist. She is 100% statist. She wants and needs government to provide the power to implement her utopian ideals. The modern day bastardization of the term anarchy with the notion of uncontrolled chaos is just another tool in the statist tool kit to convince people that they need overlords and masters to remain, at the bare minimum, safe. The utopia they promise is always within reach...as long as those that are rich either willingly fork it over or their benevolent gvmt can just take it by force. There's your chaos. There's your theft. Anarchy is not chaos. Anarchy isn't theft. What we have now IS theft. Don't expect the statists among us to ever cop to that though, enloopius. It just ain't gunna happen.
    cjsloane and enloopious like this.
  12. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    Mussolini described Fascism as the perfect integration of business and state.
    Socialism is the redistribution of wealth so that we are all the same (but in reality only the poor are the same)
    Democracy allows everyone to have a vote in how our overlords redistribute that wealth amongst the poor.
    Anarchy is the absence of a governmental overlord.

    I'm pretty sure the only thing we don't have in America is anarchy...
    cjsloane likes this.
  13. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    "You truly have a dizzying logic. Do you even know what an anarchist is?"

    Yes, but apparently you don't. You want the Webster version? Anarchy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    noun\ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\
    : a situation of confusion and wild behavior (chaos)in which the people in a country, group, organization, etc., are not controlled by rules or laws"

    Or perhaps you prefer Wikipedia? Anarchy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Anarchy and political philosophy[edit]
    Main article: Anarchism

    Anarchist Leon Czolgosz shoots US President William McKinley in 1901, with a concealed revolver.
    Anarchism is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be immoral,[9][10] or alternatively as opposing authority in the conduct of human relations.[11][12][13][14][15][16] Proponents of anarchism (known as "anarchists") advocate stateless societies based on what sometimes is defined like non-hierarchicalorganizations,[11][17][18] and in another times is defined like voluntary associations.[19][20]

    There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive.[21] Anarchist schools of thought can differ fundamentally, supporting anything from extreme individualism to complete collectivism.[10] Strains of anarchism have been divided into the categories of social and individualist anarchism or similar dual classifications.[22][23] Anarchism is often considered to be a radical left-wing ideology,[24][25] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflect anti-statist interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism or participatory economics. "To see this, of course, we must expound the moral outlook underlying anarchism. To do this we must first make an important distinction between two general options in anarchist theory [...] The two are what we may call, respectively, the socialist versus the free-market, or capitalist, versions."[26] Some individualist anarchists are also socialists or communists while some anarcho-communists are also individualists[27][28] or egoists.[29][30]

    Anarchism as a social movement has regularly endured fluctuations in popularity. The central tendency of anarchism as a mass social movement has been represented by anarcho-communism and anarcho-syndicalism, with individualist anarchism being primarily a literary phenomenon[31] which nevertheless did have an impact on the bigger currents[32] and individualists also participated in large anarchist organizations.[33][34] Most anarchists oppose all forms of aggression, supporting self-defense or non-violence (anarcho-pacifism),[35][36] while others have supported the use of militant measures, including revolution and propaganda of the deed, on the path to an anarchist society.[37](The ones I know in college, were the "Molotov Cocktail type", Burn it to the ground, and to hell with anyone else's point of view.)(Chaos and mayhem)

    The term anarchism derives from the Greek ἄναρχος, anarchos, meaning "without rulers",[38][39] from the prefix ἀν- (an-, "without") + ἀρχή (archê, "sovereignty, realm, magistracy")[40] + -ισμός (-ismos, from the suffix -ιζειν, -izein "-izing"). There is some ambiguity with the use of the terms "libertarianism" and "libertarian" in writings about anarchism. Since the 1890s from France,[41] the term "libertarianism" has often been used as a synonym for anarchism[42] and was used almost exclusively in this sense until the 1950s in the United States;[43] its use as a synonym is still common outside the United States.[44] Accordingly, "libertarian socialism" is sometimes used as a synonym for socialist anarchism,[45][46] to distinguish it from "individualist libertarianism" (individualist anarchism). On the other hand, some use "libertarianism" to refer to individualistic free-market philosophy only, referring to free-market anarchism as "libertarian anarchism".[47][48]

    (A better choice would be a republic.)
    The German philosopher Immanuel Kant treated "Anarchy" in his Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View as consisting of "Law and Freedom without Force". Thus, for Kant, anarchy falls short of being a true civil state because the law is only an "empty recommendation" if force is not included to make this law efficacious. For there to be such a state, force must be included while law and freedom are maintained, a state which Kant calls republic.[49][50]

    As summary Kant named four kinds of government:

    A. Law and freedom without force (anarchy).

    B. Law and force without freedom (despotism).
    C. Force without freedom and law (barbarism).

    D. Force with freedom and law (republic).
    The German philosopher Immanuel Kant treated "Anarchy" in his Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View as consisting of "Law and Freedom without Force". Thus, for Kant, anarchy falls short of being a true civil state because the law is only an "empty recommendation" if force is not included to make this law efficacious. For there to be such a state, force must be included while law and freedom are maintained, a state which Kant calls republic.[49][50]

    • 1651 – Thomas Hobbes (Leviathan) describes the natural condition of mankind as a war of all against all, where man lives a brutish existence. "For the savage people in many places of America, except the government of small families, the concord whereof dependeth on natural lust, have no government at all, and live at this day in that brutish manner."[64] Hobbes finds three basic causes of the conflict in this state of nature: competition, diffidence and glory, "The first maketh men invade for gain; the second, for safety; and the third, for reputation". His first law of nature is that "that every man ought to endeavour peace, as far as he has hope of obtaining it; and when he cannot obtain it, that he may seek and use all helps and advantages of war". In the state of nature, "every man has a right to every thing, even to then go for one another's body" but the second law is that, in order to secure the advantages of peace, "that a man be willing, when others are so too… to lay down this right to all things; and be contented with so much liberty against other men as he would allow other men against himself". This is the beginning of contracts/covenants; performing of which is the third law of nature. "Injustice," therefore, is failure to perform in a covenant; all else is just."
    • (Without force of law, or Covenant, we are reduced to this level once again, with every hand turned against you, and warfare as a constant companion, for this is true anarchy(rule and law but no force to back it)
    Or perhaps you prefer the free online dictionary by Farlex?anarchy - definition of anarchy by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    an•ar•chy(ˈæn ər ki)

    1. a state of society without government or law.
    2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control.
    3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
    4. confusion; chaos; disorder.
    [1530–40; < Middle French anarchie or Medieval Latin anarchia < Greek anarchía lack of a leader]
    an•ar•chic (ænˈɑr kɪk) an•ar′chi•cal, adj.
    Wiktationary anarchy - Wiktionary
    anarchy (countable and uncountable, plural anarchies)

    1. (uncountable) The state of a society being without authorities or an authoritative governing body.
    2. (uncountable) Anarchism; the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature.
    3. (countable) A chaotic and confusing absence of any form of political authority or government.
    4. Confusion in general; disorder.
    Usage notes[edit]
    • (confusion or misunderstanding in general): Anarchists feel it is inappropriate to use anarchy to mean “a state of chaos or confusion”. However, this has historically been a common use of the word.

    Or do you prefer Black BOB's version? of the Anarchist's library?
    Some anarchists, in the tradition of Tolstoy, are pacifist and nonviolent on principle. A relatively small number of anarchists believe in going on the offensive against the state. Most anarchists believe in self-defense and would accept some level of violence in a revolutionary situation.

    The issue is not really violence vs. nonviolence. The issue is direct action. Anarchists believe that people — all people — should take their fate into their own hands, individually or collectively, whether doing that is legal or illegal and whether it has to involve violence or it can be accomplished nonviolently.

    Direct action? like seizing property that does not belong to you? preventing the removal of private property by those who DO own it? "individually or collectively, whether doing that is legal or illegal and whether it has to involve violence or it can be accomplished nonviolently." (So it doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you felt it was in your best interest.)chaos indeed. Law of the jungle, and mob rule.

    So, yes, she is a anarchist, in the militant sense of the word. she advocates taking action, in groups to take what is not theirs, by whatever means necessary, because they feel it is in their best interest, regardless, if it is legal or not.

    "There are many types and traditions of anarchism" true enough, there are good versions as well, non violent. commune type settings, and village level laws. they have been present throughout our history. But, the actions of this woman, also qualify under the common usages of the words involved.
  14. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    So then you agree with me. Good.
  15. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    that she's an anarchist inspiring violence for personal gain? yes.
  16. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    So you think that anything in that article fits in any of those definitions you posted? Perhaps your reading skills are so advanced that a round peg does fit into a square hole.

    Listen, you can not be an anarchist and a socialist at the same time. Those are mutually exclusive ideas. Let me simplify this for you, anarchy and anarchists are not the same word.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  17. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    EZ does it, gents ---
    Sapper John and BTPost like this.
  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    A man, ( or a woman) is defined by what he does, by his actions. throughout history, even Surnames were titles of tHe work we do.
    carpenter , Miller , baker, Smith, cooper, Thatcher, ext.

    The actions of this woman, are indistinguishable from a militant anarchist. regardless of her political Bent, or declared Allegiance.
    the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so her intent does not matter, only her actions do. and her actions define her as a militant anarchist.
    tulianr likes this.
  19. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    The actions are indistinguishable from a militant oligarch, a militant republican, militant democrat, a militant muslim, a militant anything.

    Your argument is like blaming a pencil for misspelled words. Because she is using chaos to create a socialist structure does not make her an anarchist. Her goals are clearly not to remove rulers, government officials, or make a class of people free from overlords. Her goals are to install a socialist government structure using classic tactics and possibly blame the whole thing on anarchy using one of the obscure perverted definitions like you are doing.

    Do you know any anarchists? Have you talked with them? Here is a video of a well known anarchist.

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    cjsloane likes this.
  20. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    you obviously did not read what I posted. I even highlighted and left a note insidethe posts. I can help you with the bigger words if you would like. words like" we don't need the executives", which clearly means they don't need overlords. by seizing the equipment and the factory, she is advocating self rule.
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