Solar solution for deep well request

Discussion in 'Off Grid Living' started by Equilibrium, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Chipfixer made this comment in post #779 of this thread,, "A note about water. What if...during a meltdown there were no electricity. Some would say 'I have a generator'. But what if gas were a problem? The solution--a Well Bucket. Drop it down a well and pull up the clean water.” Evidently they’re easy enough to make and will work for wells at depths in excess of 400’, “On the well bucket, they are pretty easy to make, just get a chunk of PVC in a size that will go down the well along side the plumbing and put a check vualve on the bottom end that lets the water flow up but not down then use some 1/4" cable and clamps tp put a bail on it and your good to go. Just make sure its to big to go past the pump or put a cone shaped filter on top so you dont get hung up on the pump at the bottom of the well.” But… what about a long term solution? A member named slots made this post #424 in the same thread,, “After many years of thinking about it, I finally took the plunge and bought myself a 40 watt solar panel and 110ah battery. Its the most I could afford.” We’re in the same boat as slots. If we go the solar route, we will have to do it piecemeal. Our well is over 500’ deep. I don’t recall what hp our well pump is but it was greater than what most folk have…probably because of the depth of the well. Our well pump is newer too since our 300' well went dry a couple years ago and the pump fried out….. during a 500 year drought that occurred shortly after a brand spanking new Peaker power plant became fully operational less than 5 miles away from us. Would the experts here please help educate me on how to go about choosing an “affordable” solar system for just our well pump that might “bail” me out in a pinch?
  2. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    have you tried Bison hand well water pump or the Guzzler 400h model hand pump .. the Bison deep well pump is design for deep wells and maybe talking to them about
    makeing a extended system that goes past the limited mark of 300.ft mark ..

    Guzzler model 400H hand pump with 6 100.ft garden hose screwed togerther garden hose down the well and a large drum or tank that you could haul back to the house to fill the house water tank .

    i do not belive in solar or electric type pumping of the water because of the simple fact the system can fail at the wrong time and place haveing a simple back up system like the Guzzler model 400H hand pump system and a 6 100.ft garden hose that you can screw togerther to get into a well that deep and get you water out of as it need if the solar or electrical type pump fails ..

    it just a idea ..
  3. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Sorry Hank, but would really have to disagree with you on the water hose thing. First of all, the weight alone of 600' of garden hose would most likely break the hose itself.

    But as so far as the solar system it would take to generate power to you well pump, you will be out some money. The first thing you would need to do is to find out what size of motor the pump is, and how many amps it would require to start it up. For as deep as you will have to go to get you water, you are almost certainly going to need a back up generator system and it will have to be pretty good size. The surge on the pump starting up will really hurt a solar system unless it is pretty good size. But, if you did put in enough solar to run the well, you would be able to use it the rest of the time to run your house.

    What I would do in your shoes , would be to look for a 12kw Kohler propane generator. You may after looking around awhile find a good deal on a used on. People are selling everything right now to try and keep their heads above water. New, they can be had for a little as about $3900.00. Then , if you bought a 1,000 gal buriable propane tank, and buried it in the ground you would have fuel to run the generator for about 1,000 plus hours useing the tank only for the generator. The real plus is that the propane will not be a problem even after a few years or so. This would actually be a lot cheaper then going to solar just for the well.
  4. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    that all right but it a idea i was throwing out there or maybe a solid hose on a small wheel kept close to the well with a hand pump bult into the wheel unit ..

    i know there is a company that makes hose up to 800.ft in length i just can not remember the name of them and it will come to me later on and i post it for the people here..

    but you could have a solid hose mounted hose system with a bult in hand pump system bult into the hose wheel that used to store the hose when not in use and be able to bring up water from that depth with a simple hand pump system before putting into a larger tank system ..

    maybe this type of system as a back up to the solar sysem ..
  5. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Hank, maybe a 3/4" pvc pipe woud do the trick. But also, there is well pipe that comes in a solid roll, although it is plastic , it is designed to carry the pump and wire weight. I know a couple of wells that are in that way, down to about 400' anyway
  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

  7. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    My husband said I was wrong. The well is only like 400' deep. I guess that's a help. Here's what he remembers...

    Flo-Tec 1hp submersible. He did a quick calculation on the volts and amps and said the watts would be around 1900 if that helps. I've got the name of the service provider so I'll call tomorrow and hopefully they'll have specs on the pump they sold us and installed after they re-drilled deeper so I can be provided with the amps required for start up. hank2222> thank you so much. We're always worried about the basement flooding when the power's out and that Guzzler 400 looks perfect. Nadja> What do you think about PEX, Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) Water Supply Piping? And, I think I'd like to pursue solar just to get a feel for what kind of an investment we'd be up against. It's not looking like it'd be the $2,500 figure I had in my mind so we probably will have to go with a multi-fuel generator of some type. Quigley_Sharps>No pricing available and the set ups appear to be more for folk in tropical "developing" nations. What do you think of these folk, Solar And Wind Power Systems, Residential Power Supply, Commercial, Industrial, Custom[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? No pricing for them either.... which is scary. I'm getting the feeling that solar is going to be a pipe dream for us.
  8. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  9. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Sales [​IMG]
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  10. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    FWIW my well pump is at 515 feet, and the water level is much higher, measured at 140 feet two springs ago when the old pump failed. It's one hp, and deals 5 gpm depending on what it feels like doing. Yes, the one piece flexible tube hangs from the top and holds the pump and wires.
  11. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Nadja> "The first thing you would need to do is to find out what size of motor the pump is, and how many amps it would require to start it up." I was not ignoring you, it took me a while to get the information. I was wrong on the depth of the well and my husband was wrong on the hp of the motor.
    1 ¼ HP motor - MAX starting amp draw is 62.3 amps.*

    The amp draw on a 4" 1 ¼ hp / 230v / 1 phase Pentek motor is (2wire/3wire) 8.9 / 8 maximum amps (S.F. load)
    *The range of the starting amp draw is anywhere from 40 - 62.3 amps (or 5-7 times the S.F. load)
  12. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    it allways goes back to how and the why of thinking about back system ..

    the how is to have two or more system in the area that does not depend on any form of electric power and that means hand power system and a windmill system to pump the water without power to the system or combo of three in a triangle to have two other backups just in case something else break and when you fixing it you still have a way to get water .

    the why of thinking is how is it going to work for you in the system is basically thinking is how and what will work for you area of the county ..i can give you all the advice in the world but it will it work for you area ..

    so step back and put the ideas down on paper and think about what and how it will work and work in the worst case area for you ...
  13. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    A bump of this thread for me is what I think I need.
    "Would the experts here please help educate me on how to go about choosing an “affordable” solar system for just our well pump that might “bail” me out in a pinch?[/FONT]"
    Depth of well is aprx. 400'
    I added details on my well pump above, "1 ¼ HP motor - MAX starting amp draw is 62.3 amps.*
    The amp draw on a 4" 1 ¼ hp / 230v / 1 phase Pentek motor is (2wire/3wire) 8.9 / 8 maximum amps (S.F. load)
    *The range of the starting amp draw is anywhere from 40 - 62.3 amps (or 5-7 times the S.F. load)
  14. TnAndy

    TnAndy Senior Member Founding Member

    Do you have a hill above you that you can put a storage tank on ? I'll tell you plan A, if you's the most simple and cost effective.

    Plan B is you put in 2-4 panels, a 2500-3000 watt inverter, some batteries and run it off that. My guess is you are looking at 5,000 bucks to do that for the equipment. Labor could easily run a couple grand more, if you can't do it.
  15. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Sorry..... I wish there was a hill. Our elevation is pretty high above sea level though but no hill here...we're in the wind swept plains. Plan B would be doable next year with the tax credits reducing the actual outlay from 5k to 3.4k by year end when we file. I've got 2.5k budgeted toward solar fixes that I could spend right now. I'm pretty sure we can cover the labor ourselves.
  16. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    This is the best I can do:
    The Xantrex Trace TR3624-120-60 3600 watt inverter. $1,146.95 w/o tax and shipping
    There were no 2500's. Next down is a 2000 watt inverter in this brand so I figured bigger was better and chose the 3600 watt. Presumably this requires its own conduit box?
    SolarWorld Solar Panels - SolarWorld 175W SW175 (16V) DEKA Sealed AGM Battery, 12v 198 AH $449 w/o tax and shipping
    Sealed Gell & AGM Batteries - Deka/MK Battery 8A4DLTP-DEKA Sealed AGM Battery, 12v 198 AH
    Batter Saver?
    Battery Cable
    Tracker UTR020 Passive Solar PV Panel Tracker Mount $549 w/o tax and shipping

    Active & Passive Trackers - Zomeworks Tracker UTR020
    Concrete pad w/ footers below frost line
    Boy oh boy you're good. You were dead on the money with pricing based on the above. What am I missing please.... what did I screw up.... if not everything?
  17. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Boy oh boy you're good. You were dead on the money with pricing based on the above. What am I missing please.... what did I screw up.... if not everything? [/FONT]

    If you haven't already ordered yet, look into the Shucko 24volt 255 wattt panels. I can get them for you for around $585.00
    They are made in Germany, and an excellent panel.

    From what I understand the Xantrax 2512 sine wave invertor is no longer made. I found mine factory refurbished for $625.00 But it is rare. A friend as a used one for around $800.00 but it is 12 volt. Also, don't go with sealed batteries. They won't last long, instead go with the 6v Trojan T-105's . They are ususally good for at least 7 years if taken care of . You also have no charge controller listed. I would recommend the Xantrax C-60 with led cover (extra charge) Much cheaper then the outback, but really stands up to the test. I have one on one of my arrarys that is about 15 years old and still working perfectly.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    There is nothing wrong with AGMs for a Battery Bank, as long as you understand that they are DIFFERENT than Flooded Cell Batteries, and have different Charging Requirements. If you lose the electrolyte from an AGM, it can NOT be replaced, where in a Flooded Cell, you just add water. T105s are just fine for smaller systems, but they have problems if you try pulling LARGE Amp Loads out of them, when they are cold. L16s are their Bigger Brother, and do better for larger systems. Truly LARGE Systems will use Motive Batteries (forktruck 2 Volt Cells) or the even bigger Iron/Nickel KOH Telco Backup Battery Systems. I know of a couple Outfits that got their Batteries Systems from the local Telco Switching office on a upgrade deal, and it took a FLATBed to haul the batteries away. 12000 AmpHours @ 48Vdc
  19. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Witch Doctor> "consider windpower

    PRICE " I've had a chance to look at this. I think those are both great for someone who's new construction or someone whose well pump needs to be replaced. Both of those systems require a DC pump which is a bummer. I have a teeny tiny bit of exposure to wind power. There's a new breed of turbine that is NOT a bat and bird shredder out there that we are looking closely at for many reasons. See what you think about vertical axis wind turbines, It's new generation wind power and this is most likely the route we'll go down 5 years from now because this is capable of providing all the power for our home at half the price of what we were quoted for whole house solar. One thing about living on the plains.... you might not always be able to count on the sun but you can pert near always count on the wind and... those units are able to be installed at a new location.

    BTPost and Nadja> Thank you thank you thank you for specific battery suggestions. I found where 2 Trojan T-105’s could be purchased for $250 without hardware or battery interconnects and I found where a Trojan L16 could be purchased but no T16’s. Is there a model number to the Trojan T16 or another comparable battery for me to track down pricing for?

    Nadja> “A friend as a used one for around $800.00 but it is 12 volt.” I take it this means the Xantrex TR3624, Off Grid Inverter/Charger, 3600 Watt, 24 Volt that I found for around $1200 was a good value?
    The Schuco brand has rave reviews so yes… I would like to know where you purchase them for that pricing please.

    What is your opinion of the Kyocera brand? Specifically…. the Kyocera KD215GX-LPU 215W 16 Volt solar panel? I found a local source for $390 each new but…. We’d have to pick them up and we’d have to buy 6 which is $2340 but…. the brand that TnAndy suggested at 175W would have cost us $2100 for 3 w/o taxes and shipping.
    Another possibility would be, Solar Panel 230w, 230w Solar Module.

    I'm having difficulty locating a Xantrex C-60 with an LED cover. Does anyone know of a supplier.
  20. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Mornin . PM me and I will give you a name and number for both . Not sure about the inverter your talking about if it is sine wave or mod sine wave. Nadja
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