Some AK vs AR questions

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Aptus, Dec 29, 2005.


  1. Aptus

    Aptus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Hey guys. I've been contemplating whether I want to buy an AK or an AR for my first gun.

    From all my reading on the two guns, I've come to these conclusions on what I like/dislike.

    AR15
    -----------
    Likes
    -----------
    - Ergonomics and fast (or i find easier) magazine changes (known basically from using my airsoft SR16)
    - Ability to put whatever your heart desires on the gun
    - that our military uses this style of gun
    -------------
    Dislikes
    -------------
    - So expensive!
    - Always hearing that 5.56 has problems putting enemy combatants down
    - Finicky when dirty



    AK
    ------------
    Likes
    ------------
    - Legendary reliability
    - 7.62 round packs more punch than 5.56
    - the rugged (retro :) ) look
    - CHEAP
    ------------
    Dislikes
    ------------
    - Ergonomics seem a little weird to me (basically mag changes and fire selector switch come to mind)
    - Not as accurate as the AR and more recoil


    Okay, so basically - here's what I'd like to know about the AR. Am I being too picky about the 5.56 round? Is the likely hood of an AR jamming in a critical moment very applicable to current generation weapons?
    (Basically if it's going to jam easily, I feel better off w/ an AK).

    As for the AK, am I getting too worried about accuracy in a combat situation? And w/ practice are mag changes pretty easy? (I know of this criss-cross (looks like you make an X with the mags) trick for speedy mag changes, but I haven't really ever gotten to try it out since I never handle an AK style weapon).

    Any input is much appreciated! Be easy on the [newb]
     
  2. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    As to the accuracy, thats going to depend on the bore of the particular one you get, if its got a good bore it'll be accurate if not its spray and pray.
    On recoil the AK I just got has extreemely mild recoil. For the ergonomics there area variety of different AK grips from what Ive seen so that would be a choice. The 7.62 dose have more power but .223 ammo is lighter to carry and less often in shortage. Bothe have their ups and downs but I would say for a first one go save a few hundred bucks and go with the AK would be my advice.
     
  3. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Well the real truth of the matter is, most uf us will never see combat. We all baby our rifles, and in any situation we run across, if you need more than one mag you are probably screwed anyway.

    In a SHTF scenario (IMO) you are stupid if you go seeking combat. Your goal (IMO) should be bug out hit the hills, and woodlands. That being said if you live in an urban environment you may have to protect yourself and your family and supplies. In that case more than likely it will be CQB, and very short range engagements. The AK platform is perfect for this, and has the power to put them down for the count.

    Looking beyond about 100-300yards, and neither weapon is a great choice IMO, and a larger caliber weapon should be used. Remember in an Urban bug out, there will be either overwhelming military firepower, or more likely a bunch of thugs that do not now how to properly use any weapon system.

    Yes an AR has better accuracy at longer ranges, but if it takes 2+ rounds to put them down you have effectively cut your ammo load in half compared to an AK.

    When it comes to do-dads and gadgets, that is just more to go wrong in a high stress environment. Not that I don't like the EoTech or any of that cool stuff, and will probably have some of it, but still Irons won't let you down.

    AK mag changes....if you get the extended mag release they are very easy to do one handed. This part is availible from www.RedstarArms.com as seen here:

    [​IMG]

    AK-47 TACTICAL RELEASE
    June, 2002. New, updated design. We've listened to your requests and have made a good product even better. Our newest magazine release is smaller and more attractive, plus it is less likely to become snagged on brush when used in the field. In addition to a revised design, these all steel parts are now hardened to ensure greater integrity.

    Strong and simple ambidextrous magazine release that really works! A natural evolution of the AK-47 magazine release. Dramatically decreases magazine change times by allowing a quick mag drop with the trigger finger while keeping the stong hand on the pistol grip. Effective for competitive shooting or any circumstance that requires reduced magazine change time. Mag release comes with black phosphate finish, is pre-drilled, and is ready to attach to your existing magazine release. Unit comes complete with instructions.

    What our customers are saying.
    A.Q. Smith
    I got my first AK47 tactical release in the mail today, installed it, and feel like a damphul for not getting two the first time round. It is the best thing I have seen. If somebody could invent a thumb operated safety, that might be better, but your release solves a major slow-down in sustained fire.

    Will fit the converted SAIGA rifles.


    They also carry an Extended Selector which is very nice, and easy to use:

    [​IMG]

    Then there are also ways of attaching do-dads and gadgets to AK's. Just don't do this for God's sake:
    2005_0729ak000712__small__208. 2005_0729ak000612__small__782.
     
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    MY LORD, WTF is he going for with that? Olympic medals? b::


    I'm sorry, but that's like placing a Mercedes emblem on a VW bug. [peep]
     
  5. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    WTHIT? Oh, didn't look close enough, that is a Druganov carbine!! b::

    Now that the PRO AK has spoken, I have both and I actually have had more jams in my AK than in my AR. It is all up to you, your points are all valid and you need to decide what works best for you. As far as the 5.56 not having enough power to put a man down at any range. I have asked several people to stand at whatever distance makes them happy and let me take pot shots at them with a 5.56. Haven't had any takers. As for the effectiveness, I will say that the insurgent death toll way outweighs the US death toll for combatants, so I would have to say that accurate 5.56 fire is adequate!
     
  6. Aptus

    Aptus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Thanks everyone, that is really good information. I'll probably make my exec decision pretty soon. I'll post some pics of whatever I decide to get.

    Lol, and I promise not to do an AK like the one pictured above.
     
  7. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yeah .223 will get the job done in 1 shot IF you put it where it goes, especialy with soft point hunting type ammo, I know that type ammo in .223 can blow a hole about 3 inches across through a deers heart first hand, the main advantage to the 7.62 cal IMO is it is slightly more forgiving of lesser accuracy since they do have a bit more energy. That said even a .50 BMG isnt going to reliably kill anyone or keep them down if it hits them in the foot.
     
  8. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    All calibers have issues with varying conditions. I have a picture of a guy shot with a 7.62 through the calf, just a through and through the bone, pencil sized hole either side, the leg was saved. I have also seen a 5.56 that hit a bone in roughly the same place and the only thing holding the leg on was a little flap of skin. I used to have a picture of a eskimo that was standing next to a caribou that he killed with a .22LR, and does it routinely. Ballistics can never overcome poor marksmanship. Personally, I like the 5.56 for CQB because I am able to control multiple shots much easier than 7.62 X39 and more so with the 7.62X51!!!
     
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Well, I am something of an expert when it comes to the M16 variants, since I handled one for over ten years in the military, both in training and in the field. I can say to a fair degree that it will function just fine, be as accurate as you will ever need, and will never weight you down too much...but I'll be damned if it gets a little too much sand or dirt in the receiver and you are up sh*t creek without a paddle. Many times while under fire I had been firing and did not close the dust cover in time. I had to tear it open, remove the bolt, throw some water in her, put it back together and do a functions check just so I could continue.

    With my AK so far I have literally stepped on it with the bolt open, got dirt in it, slapped it on its side, jammed a mag in it and fired it no problem.

    Of course, I wasn't circumcising flies at 500 meters, either. But it fired and hit the target. [peep]

    I love my AK. :D
     
  10. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    LOL, I am no pro, lol:) I totally hear what you are saying and believe it with all my heart, I am just a big fan of big bullets:D

    When you get down to it, if you are engaging targets with ballistic vest and what not neither is very effective. But for thugs on the street, not hopped up on meth, or crank...either will do.

    Sniper what AK are you running and what happens when it jams?
     
  11. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I like both but prefer the AR platform myself. Seems more of the shooters I hang with and would rely on in a SHTF use ARs. SO it's kindof a 'group standard' for me.

    But I always approach these caliber debates with the Golf Bag theory.. A tool fo every job. 50BMG for a Driver etc...
     
  12. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Ar in the 6.8
    Ar in the Bushmaster BAR 308 with a 16" flat top
     
  13. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    In 5-10 yrs if the 6.8Remy takes off I will have one:D
     
  14. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have a Maadi. Thinking I would like to get rid of it and get something different. I had a Norinco and never had a problem with it.
    It has ftf problems. I have changed mags and ammo. Starting to think the spring is weak.
     
  15. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Does the bolt hit the round above the rim? Or does the round's nose hit the chamber rim?
     
  16. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I think if you had a Magnus built AK, you would like it a lot better than your Maddi. The Magnus built Romy never fails to go boom, and the ones I have had the pleasure of shooting shot nice groups.
     
  17. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Actually, I have seen both. I also don't like the "paint" job, it is always flaking off.

    Speaking of Romy, I need to find the pictures of the Romanian AKs that the Romanians were carrying when I was in Kosovo. They have the NV rail on the side. I will have to see if I can find them.
     
  18. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    The Romys are pretty cheap right now, from my understanding though, they won't be for too long because they won't be so popular on the market forever. Inventories change.

    You don't want WASR-10 though, from what I have heard. Anybody confirm that?
     
  19. Aptus

    Aptus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Does magnus have a website? I did a search on google for "Magnus AK47", and don't think I found anything that would be considered an arm's dealer.
     
  20. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    OK, I just posted three pics in the AK section titled Romanian Military AK. Go check that baby out!
     
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