Some Ballistic Tests, Warning the page has "Adult Links

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by magnus392, Nov 5, 2005.


  1. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    http://www.ehowa.com/features/ballistics.shtml

    Lessons Learned:
    As Clint Smith says, "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down to begin with."

    And, as always, shooting stuff is fun.
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Re: Some Ballistic Tests, Warning the page has "Adult L

    What that seems to tell me is that if I have armor on, my guts are going to take a hell of a whack, and probably incapacitate me anyhow. Can't help but wonder if a thru and thru would not be more survivalbe. If an adversary has armor, I'm still going to him him with 125 gr JHP in .357 at least twice and stir his innards. Depending on circumstances, I may then administer a coup de grace. I fear that I'm not going to do the gentlemanly thing and minister to his wounds while I waiit for medical assistance, or cops to arrive and take him into custody. It will be the coroner's wagon for him or me.
     
  3. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Modeling clay isn't real indicitive of what the human body will do. The clay he shows is really heavy and will simply defor instead of give at all. It would have been more interesting if he had stuck a really big pumpkin inside the vest and then shot it.
    Besides, as we all know, the lowly 5.56 can't kill anyone from those distances, it doesn't have the knock down power to put that kind of hurt on anyone! [beer]
     
  4. Valkman

    Valkman Knifemaker Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    ghrit, aim for the head. [afro]
     
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    With my eyes, get the largest part in sight first. Then walk up and do what you say. Knock 'em down, the put them away. Druther 12 than one. All that said, clay is NOT a good stand in for the human carcass, and I fully intend to use up all 6 in the revolver before I stop pulling the trigger in that scenario. I hope I have the guts to do what I say I'll do, it's easy to bugle "Charge" when the field in front of you is MT. [beer] [beer]
     
  6. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    , 5.56 would yeah probably go in and out? I am no expert but it was neat to see:)
     
  7. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    The interesting thing about the test was that all rounds were fired into the same medium. The results were quite interesting. It kind of is making me think a socom 16 would be the greatest late night defense weapon in your home since a bad guy could be wearing level III armor.
     
  8. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Naw, I'll stick with my M4, more versatile and less likely to penetrate my house, the neighbors house, and into the school bus that is sitting six miles away!
     
  9. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    Bump.
     
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    No 7.62x39 bullet recovered. :D

    I like how the pistol rounds still made a hell of an impression, which shows that even if the bullet is stopped, it's gonna hurt like a SOB.
     
  11. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yeah that is the thing...if you hit someone up close and personal...unless they are wearing the trauma plate you are probably gonna incapacitate them for a time, and allow for follow up shots on softer points. I am partial to head shots anyway.
     
  12. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    Wrong.

    Second Chance body armor has lots of pics of cops in the hospital, with big bruises on their chests, broken ribs, etc, but they KILLED the men who shot them.


    Rich Davis and Alex Jason for years shot themselves with various rds, while wearing Second Chance concealed armor, and the immediatlely shot targets, just to prove that they were not incapacitated at all.
     
  13. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Re: Wrong.

    I would like to see them take a 3 round burst of steel core 7.62x39 to the chest and keep coming. I am not saying it isnt' possible, but I would like to see it.
     
  14. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    Don't know anything about armor, eh?

    CONCEALABLE armor does not stop ANY rifle rd. 223 softpoints go thru it like it was cheese. Punks aint using Ak's, they use pistols, and concealable armor has saved thousands of lives against pistols, since it began being used in the 70's.

    Also, there's video of a Marine being hit by AK rds in theMiddle east. He goes down, but gets up right away, and kills the man who shot him.
     
  15. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Re: Don't know anything about armor, eh?

    Actually I believe it was a 7.62x54R round...and yes the trooper was put down for a few seconds, enough for someone not hopped up on dope to really do some damage.
     
  16. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    Since the Druganov-Mosin rd hits 2x as hard,

    and still didn't disable the Marine, what's that say about the claims for the wonderful AK rd, hmm? :) The only people still using the .30 version are those too poverty stricken to move up, or those who are too ignorant to know any better.
     
  17. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Re: Since the Druganov-Mosin rd hits 2x as hard,


    It put his ass on the ground! A non raghead would have put the sole of the marines feet through his head. the 7.62x54r is way different than 7.62x39. As far as the .30cal round AK being defunct...pull your head out of your ass.
     
  18. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    now. LOOK, punk.

    I've been nice about your ignorance, don't push your luck. No major military in the world still uses the .30 AK. The Chinese have been switching to the .20 AK as fast as they can, and so have everyone else with any sense. The US woke up about the issue nearly 40 years ago. The troops MISS with thousands of rds for every hit that they get, and most hits are poor hits. A hit on a limb, etc, with the 308 ball rd doesn't do a damned thing that the same hit with the 223 won' do. All it does is poke a littlle hole. Much less the much feebler 30 ak rd.

    Being shocked and falling down, is NOT the same thing as being incapactitated, as the Marine proved. so some pissant NOTHING types of countries are still povertry stricken, ignorant and uncaring as to still use the .30 ak, so what? Some still use bolt actions, too. It just means that they are ignorant, broken, or stupid.

    [ Comment added by : melbo: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:36 pm ]
    We can discuss things here without personal attacks meyah...
    Disagreement is fine but your style of Discussion is a little
    'in your face' today.
    Let's relax and help each other out.
     
  19. magnus392

    magnus392 Field Marshall Mags Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Re: now. LOOK, punk.

    You slay me [newb]. First off...a Dragonov/PSL isn't a fucking AK, get your shit in order.

    If you really think the Chinese are switching to a .20 caliber AK, you prove your ignorance beyond any shadow of a doubt and leave me little to do in that department, lol:) But out of pity, get ready for some schooling:

    The weapon used is NOT an AK, yes it is a .30cal weapon, but not an AK. Besides we don't know what ammunition is being used. The Iraqi ammo is total crap, that is why the US is buying all the Russian 7.62x39 and importing it into Iraq, so their is no accounting for the ammo. http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2675852?htv=12 You clearly see the trooper on the ground....ala VUNERABLE! A well trained solider would have put the guy down for the count. (I am not advocating killing our troops, just stating what I feel a professional solider would have done in the same scenario)

    Chinese using a .20cal weapon....again pull your head out of your ass and smell the shit stuck in your ears: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as39-e.htm The 5.8x42 is no where near .20 cal. The shitty 5.56 is .223, and even the 5.45 is .21, so just who in the hell is using .20cal's? That is almost as moronic as me saying .17hmr is the new sniper round of choice for the US Marine Corps

    Now for a test, I want you to go to a junk yard, and haul off an old hoopty ass car, or use your own I dont' give a shit. It needs to have at least two doors directly across from each other, and an intact windshield. Now using current USGI ball shoot those doors and that windshield 4 times each and report back. Then I will send you a 10 round stripper clip of Chinese steel core and an AK if you don't have one and let you redo your test with the "shitty" .30 cal weapon of the puke stain morons of the mid-east.

    As far piss ant broke countries being the ones using AK's...even in our shitty media how many times do you see OUR troopers with AK's?

    When it comes to spray and pray, the generally accepted number of rounds per kill in Veitnam seems to be about 50K per kill...with your beloved 5.56. (sorry I would own your ass with the link, facts, and back up but I got tired of looking and remembered you aren't really worth that much effort, but like I stated the generally accepted numbers, etc.)

    So, really I would suggest you go out to the range, make love to your dear AR-15 squeeze off 5 or so rounds at a bizzillion yards, go home clean the scope, immerse your AR in the cleaning solution you have to use to keep it working. While I will go dump 500 rounds out of a dirty AK that has been torture tested for about 2krounds so far, drag it in the mud and rain, down the road behind my truck, and still put every one on paper at 100 yards. In reguards to me being a "Punk" Your ass just got schooled, and I dont' give a shit how old you are, have a nice day fucktard [elim]
     
  20. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Re: now. LOOK, punk.

    Wow.... you sir are a dumbass. It must be nice to have such a defective brain that you can develop your own misguided conclusions concerning something you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

    I doubt you had ever considered this... but one of the primary reasons the 5.56NATO round was adopted was not because it was ballistically superior to .30-caliber cartridges the US had previously employed (7.62x63mm and 7.62x51mm). The truth is that when they first adopted the 5.56 NATO, it was a horrible cartridge. It was cheaper and easier to mass produce. It's less lethal than either .308 and .30-06, which was considered to be a positive aspect of adopting 5.56NATO. An interesting battlefield-combat idea for you to consider: If you shoot a man with a ballistically superior caliber (.30-06, .308Win, 7.62x54R), the odds of that character surviving are not that great. You see, if one soldier is hit and dies, you've taken one man out of the battle. If you hit a soldier and he's incapacitated, you've taken three soldiers off of the field, because it takes two others to render aid or carry him off to be treated. Now, I know what your mouth-breather brain is thinking (I can hear the gears grinding from here).... "Oh, soldiers don't care for their fallen in the heat of battle". They do. I'm not saying it's absolute truth, but that was another position the US took when they adopted the smaller cartridge. Another factoid: Most combat-shootings occur within 200 meters of the target. Just because a rifle shoots 600 yards doesn't mean it's practical to do it. Dumbass.

    Also keep in mind that the 5.56mm was adopted when the US was still engaging in battlefield type warfare. About this Marine video.... can we conclude 100% that he is hit with 7.62x39mm cartridges ? Can we also conclude that they are direct hits ? Is it not possible that the bullets are being deflected from the ground or other objects ? Was it even a direct hit ?

    Meyah, you are a dumbass to the highest degree. You're making rash, extreme statements, and it would appear that you have NO idea what the hell you're talking about. To say the .30-caliber cartridges (including 7.62x39mm) are inferior only reflects your lack of experience, and ignorance of history. The US has failed to achieve victory against these "ignorant, stupid, broken, inferior" countries, even with it's superior war technology. To discredit bolt-action rifles equally relfects your lack of practical firearms knowledge. Go back to playing Duck Hunt and let the adults talk now.
     
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