Somebody explain this to me - Diesel prices?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Quigley_Sharps, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    OK, I'm not sure how an oil analyst writes this explanation of high diesel prices with a straight face, but tell me what you think. The part I'm stumped by is bolded at the end.

    Heating oil prices in April (granted it's snowing in Bend, but it's Spring most places) and a fire at a refinery in Finland? A fire in Finland is driving diesel prices higher in Oregon? What's that effect, maybe 0.000001% of the world output of diesel fuel? Last time I checked there's not a whole lot of diesel exported from Finland to anywhere, so why would that effect the price of diesel? IMHO, the answer is a lot of oil traders just hoping and praying for any reason, not matter how insignificant (like a fire at a refinery in Finland) to jack prices up. A few hundred or thousand folks playing with the world economy to make themselves obscene amounts of cash with little or no supervision has been shown to have disasterous consequences in the past.

    Somebody better pull back on the reins of these runaway traders or this stagecoach is going over the cliff for sure.
  2. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    This whole thing on fuel cost is insane. I don't drive my CUCV right now, I sits with a full tank of diesel with 20 gallons in reserve. I have her as my BOV while I just drive my jeep around.

    If we are not at peak oil and this is just market driven, then I will definitely go to alternative sources, BD and Fischer Tropsch fuel. If the bubble does pop then I will try my damnedest nevery to buy fossil fuels for as long as I live.
  3. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    Notice how they call it "record" prices. Like it is something that should and must be broken, like an olympic event.

    In the past 10 years it seems that any international incident affects oil prices. Maybe I'm too young but I don't recall it being that volatile before about 10-15 years ago. Maybe it's an excuse to up the price or maybe we have really started running out.
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Heating oil, kerosene, and diesel are very closely related chemically (as are jet fuels.) At the refinery, the the refineries must apportion the "cut" of raw oil (that is, adjust the output) of each fraction of distillate. Increase one, the others have to decrease. In the case of heating oil, kerosene, and diesel, they are basically the same stuff that gets spread over all the uses; an increase in demand for one influences the supply of the others, and you can see how that goes. Minuteman may be able to elaborate on this.

    I suppose the Finlander fire just increased the demand in that part of the global supplies, what the hell do I know?
  5. badkarma

    badkarma ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    and diesel requires less refinement than gasoline
  6. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Dude, it IS over, you just haven't felt it hit the bottom yet. They will reverse this by a drastic cut of 30 to 50 cents and everyone will jump for joy, but then within a few months, it will be right back up to where it was and climb another 50 to 70 cents, then they will do it again and they know we are to stupid to fight them. Remember all the calls for boycotting gas for a day just a year or so ago?
  7. Conagher

    Conagher Dark Custom Rider Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The sad thing is, my uncle worked as a Line Technician for Chevron in Boise until he retired a few years ago, and he said that diesel is a by product from refining gasoline. So in essence, it doesn't cost the refiners anything to make diesel since it was made when they making gasoline.

    It's all just a bunch of BS to make OPEC and the other oil companies fat rich SOB's and yet they complain that they aren't making money. In fact, some of their quarterly profits, are huge profits every quarter.

    You wait, we'll have another trucker strike in this country like we did in the 70's and it was mostly over a 55 mph speed limit back then.
  8. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I am not involved in the refining side of the business but from what I know you are correct. Diesel is a byproduct of gasoline refining as is kerosene, heating oil, tar, etc. But it is not "free" it has to be refined in a seperate process to become a usable product.

    What a lot of people have trouble grasping is how interconnected all of this is. What happens in the third world affects us here. Oil is the life blood of our civilization and there are more and more people around the globe scambling for it now than in any time in history.

    The vastness is something that is hard to wrap our minds around. But it boils down to a very simple formula. We are producing 74 million barrels a day, we are currently using 88 million barrels a day. I don't care what it is, oil, oranges, or toilet paper, when you are using more than you are producing then it is going to get much more scarce and much more expensive. I don't understand why that is so hard for some people to fathom.

    Here are a few articles that illustrate how the light bill in Dubai raises the fuel bill in Oregon. We live in an interconnected world that runs on a substance that is gwetting more scarce.

    Insight: Opec's power shortages fuel oil prices
    By A.F.Alhajji, Energy Economist & Associate Professor at Ohio Northern University
    Tuesday Apr 1 2008 12:50

    Opec's disappearing excess capacity is the root cause of oil above $100 a barrel.
    The decrease in excess capacity started last summer after power shortages in the Gulf region. As the summer heat receded and some excess capacity again became available, it quickly vanished again.
    Political and technical factors have reduced oil production in some Opec members. Others with excess capacity compensated by increasing their own production above their quota. Either way, excess production capacity has vanished.

    Investors and speculators have taken advantage of the situation and lifted oil prices to new records. Opec [the oil producers' cartel] blamed the runaway price on speculators and the US policies that have fuelled speculation, including lower interest rates and the weak dollar.
    But blame also rests on some Opec members. As oil prices have increased, so have their revenues. Some of these revenues found their way into funds that speculate in oil futures. Ironically, "petrodollars" have helped drive oil prices to new records.

    In addition, the way that some organisations and analysts have interpreted market fundamentals is flawed, because they exclude the role of excess capacity. Their picture of the historical relationship between oil prices and inventory levels is a case in point. Why are oil prices breaking records while inventories are rising? The historical relationship between total oil stocks and oil prices has an embedded assumption in it that analysts are now ignoring: excess capacity should not decline below a certain level.

    In fact it is total stocks, which include inventories in the industrial countries and excess capacity in the oil producing countries, which are the main determinant of oil prices.

    In spite of rising inventories, vanishing capacity makes current total stocks so small that the increase in oil prices is the necessary result of market fundamentals.

    Therefore, oil prices will remain high and might continue to break records this summer, regardless of capacity expansion in Opec members and regardless of talk about "peak oil".

    Our focus should be on exports from the oil producing countries, especially from the Gulf region, not on production or capacity increases. Capacity might increase, but exports could well decline. Why?

    Economic growth, population growth, and urbanisation in the Gulf have increased demand for electricity to the extent that power shortages will be the norm in the next few years. Power shortages and inadequate generation capacity have delayed several development projects, industrial plants, and other construction projects in several Gulf cities. A large number of housing towers stand empty in some Gulf cities for lack of electricity.

    It is not "peak oil" that is fuelling the current increase in oil prices, it is "peak power". Sadly, the whole world will pay for these power shortages in the form of higher oil and gas prices. A heat wave this summer would force countries in the Gulf region to divert natural gas from use in the oil fields to power plants during peak demand. This, in turn, will reduce oil production and crimp exports. Countries that use water injection will divert crude oil from exports and burn it directly in power plants.

    The result is a decrease in exports - and an environmental disaster. Let us remember that there is no additional natural gas in the region. All natural gas, including gas from unfinished projects, has been allocated. Let us also note that these countries have started importing fuel oil for power plants. Such imports have become expensive and put strains on the world refining markets. In short, even building more power plants will not solve the problem. There is no gas for these plants.

    One final complication: diverting crude from exports will lower government revenues, which are used in part to finance these plants!
    One fact is clear: If Opec had excess capacity, it could flush out speculators, lower oil prices, and help the ailing dollar, thereby helping itself by increasing production.
    To conclude: Let us forget about "peak oil" for now and focus on the more immediate crisis: "peak power".
    (The only thing I would disagree with is the role that peak oil is playing. And note that there was no mention of the oil companies)

    Oil peak theorist warns of chaos, war SHAWN MCCARTHY
    From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
    April 7, 2008 at 9:09 PM EDT

    WASHINGTON — Matt Simmons sounds the alarm like the Cassandra of the oil industry, warning that crude production has peaked and that looming energy shortages could derail global growth and even spark armed conflict.

    As a prominent "peak oil" theorist, the veteran oil industry financier paints a grim picture of a world facing resource scarcity. Still, it doesn't take a "peak-ist" to conclude that the global oil producers will find it increasingly difficult to keep up with growing demand.

    He squared off yesterday against other experts who argue that the world has yet to reach the physical limits of oil production. But while they disagreed on the extent of the problem, the panelists at a U.S.

    Department of Energy conference in Washington concurred that future crude production will be constrained by physical, economic and political factors that add up to tight markets and higher oil prices.

    Despite oil prices that have topped $100 (U.S.) a barrel, there was little sense at yesterday's conference, put on by the Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration, that high prices would spark either a boost in oil output or a sharp fall in global demand.

    Record pump prices – and a sharply slowing economy – have cut into U.S. demand, which represents 25 per cent of the world's total. But analysts who follow the emerging economies said there is no sign yet that triple-digit crude prices have seriously dented demand in China or India.
    Global demand for oil will continue to grow, analysts forecast, even as the developed world reduces consumption in the face of high prices and environmental concerns. Economic growth and rising living standards in developing countries like China, India and the Middle East will more than offset reduced energy consumption in the mature economies of North America and Europe.

    The views of Mr. Simmons, who runs Houston-based Simmons & Assoc. investment bank, bordered on apocalyptic.
    Oil shortages "could lead to social chaos and war," he warned. "The issue is the most serious risk to sustaining the 21st century. Peak oil is real, and we have to take it seriously." He argued that production of conventional crude peaked in May, 2005, at 74 million barrels a day.
    Since then, the world has met rising consumption – now at about 88-million barrels a day – by cutting inventories, tapping natural gas liquids that typically are included in crude production figures and using better refinery efficiencies.

    Peter Jackson, a director at the Cambridge Energy Research Assoc., said Mr. Simmons was overstating decline rates of existing fields, was not taking into account the prospect for new discoveries, and played down the importance of unconventional resources such as Canada's oil sands.
    Still, he said the industry faced "above ground" problems that would make it difficult to keep production growing fast enough to meet rising demand. About 90 per cent of existing conventional reserves are controlled by state-owned oil companies, many of which are not investing enough in capacity expansion, he said.

    At the same time, the industry worldwide has seen construction costs explode, even as oil companies are forced to exploit smaller, more remote and more geologically complex reserves. The average cost of producing a barrel of oil has more than doubled in the past eight years, with most of that increase occurring in the past four, he said.
    James Schlesinger, who was the United States' first energy secretary 30 years ago during the oil shock of the late 1970s, warned of a new crisis looming.

    That 1970s shock was the result of supply disruptions caused by the 1973 Arab embargo and then the Iranian revolution. The current runup in prices reflects a more fundamental disconnect between constrained supplies and rising demand in the developing world, he said.

    "At some point during the decade immediately ahead, we will hit a plateau, and this will have a tremendous shock both economically and politically," Mr. Schlesinger said.

    The Age of Scarcity?
    Rising populations. Skyrocketing commodity prices. Strains on natural resources. Is this our Malthusian moment?
    by Chris Farrell

    Is the ghost of Thomas Robert Malthus stalking the global economy? Sad to say, it sure seems like it.
    Malthus was a key figure in the 18th and early 19th century in developing modern mainstream economics. (And Darwin hit on the idea of natural selection after reading Malthus' Essay on Population.) But Malthus is best remembered for his grim argument that there is a tendency from "the wretched inhabitants of Tierra del Fuego" to "the beggars of Teshoo Loomboo" for population growth to outstrip resources.

    The grim dynamic runs along these lines: Growing incomes lead to increased fertility and reduced mortality. That means there are more mouths to feed on the same land. Growth and income fall. The process repeats itself, over and over again. Little wonder the Victorian historian Thomas Carlyle described Malthus as "Dreary, stolid, dismal, without hope for this world or the next."

    Evidence for the Pessimists
    In the 21st century, the worry revolves around the dramatic expansion of the global economy and consumer purchasing power in China, India, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Russia, and other emerging markets. The rise of the frontier economies is putting too great a strain on natural resources. The price increases we're witnessing aren't a temporary market dislocation, but a permanent shift into an Age of Scarcity.

    Could the pessimists be right?
    They have some evidence in their corner. Certainly, despite some recent declines, commodity prices are at nosebleed heights. The Rogers International Commodities Index, made up of 36 different commodities ranging from agriculture to energy to metals, is up 383% over the past 10 years. Oil prices have jumped from $23 a barrel in 2003 to around $100 currently. Part of that oil price hike could also reflect that the world is near "peak oil," the term used to define the transformative moment when global oil production starts declining gradually over time.

    China Putting Price Controls on Food
    Food prices are skyrocketing, too. The Food & Agricultural Organization of the United Nations says its food index is at its highest level since its creation in 1990. High food prices are pinching household pocketbooks in developed nations like the U.S. But they are catastrophic to incomes in developing ones. That's why Mexico has seen mass protests about the cost of tortillas, Senegal, Mauritania, and other parts of Africa have had riots over grain prices, and children have marched in Yemen protesting child hunger.

    Governments are also getting nervous. They're taking various measures to restrain price increases and secure supplies. For instance, according to the Asian Development Bank's latest outlook, import duties on food and cereals are being temporarily cut in some countries and in others exports are being taxed or restricted to increase domestic supplies of food. A number of countries, like China, are also putting price controls on food. "Artificial restraints on prices and inflation today that blunt market incentives are only likely to lead to higher prices in the future," worry the authors of the Asian Development Report for 2008.

    Still, there's good reason to believe the Age of Scarcity isn't here. For one thing, the long-term impact of steep market prices and technological innovation shouldn't be underestimated. The late Julian Simon, an iconoclastic environmental optimist and professor of business administration, captured the essential dynamic in the introduction to his essay "Forecasting the Long-Term Trend of Raw Material Availability."
    "The key sequence runs as follows: (1) increased pressure of population and income growth upon resources, causing an increase in prices; (2) perception of the scarcity problem with its attendant opportunities; (3) search for new solutions to the problem; (4) discovery of solutions that leave us better off than if the original problem had never risen."

    (The following article is posted in the Peak Oil thread from 2005. The article is actually older than that. We are now in the "Transition" stage. I and others have been laying this out for years. At first we were ridiculed as Doomers and conspiracy nuts, and another Y2K BS. They laughed and said it would never happen. Then people started to become aware and see the ramifications we had been warning about. Now they are crying conspiracy, amazing.)

    The Four Stages of the Breakdown
    When considering what to do about the upcoming collapse of modern society, we have to be aware of what will happen. There are four different stages to come which can be defined by the difference in the three factors of energy source, interdependence and security.

    1. Awareness
    This is the stage we are at now. (not anymore, I believe we have moved on to the next one)We are using hydrocarbons as our principle energy source and we are at a high sense of interdependence – that is, everybody has a specific job and we all rely on others to do their own jobs. As an example, the farmer grows corn, the driver takes it to the factories, the factory workers convert it to bread, other drivers take it to shops, shopkeepers sell the bread. If any one group of people fails to do their job, the process fails. The farmer, for instance, cannot turn his corn into bread and the shopkeeper is unable to grow his own corn to sell.
    We also have a high security level meaning that the government, authorities, police and military generally maintain organization and the rule of law so that individuals do not need to worry too much about these things themselves.

    Awareness is low at the moment and this Stage will not end until just about all of the world's educated population knows of this problem (there will always be some who do not learn of oil depletion in the same way as there are many now, especially in the developing world, who are unaware of climate change.) But as awareness will tend to rely on signs of oil depletion, this stage overlaps with the next

    2. Transition
    This is the actual long period when we switch from our modern, hydrocarbon-based society to whatever comes afterwards. It begins with price rises, recessions and blackouts, and ends with riots, wars and famines. Transition can be subdivided into two further phases: Ordered and Anarchic.

    2a. Ordered Transition
    Initially, the three factors still remain similar to our present situation, especially security. The deprivations of oil shortages can be mollified somewhat by welfare, and the health and emergency services. Governments still retain control so blackouts do not collapse into looting and food shortages do not lead to riots.

    2b. Anarchic Transition
    As the Transition continues and oil becomes more scarce, order breaks down. The threatened lootings and riots of the Ordered Transition become fact. Our interdependence becomes a danger as certain stages of processes become weakened or unavailable (what happens with our corn-to-bread line when the lorries cannot obtain the diesel to transport the goods?) The authorities find it harder and harder to keep control so that we are increasingly forced to look after ourselves, growing our own food and protecting our homes against the poor and starving.

    3. Scavengery
    Transition ends when just about all hydrocarbons are unavailable. National security has disappeared, interdependence is unsustainable. We are forced to live in small groups of village or tribal size, growing our own food, maintaining our own buildings and providing our own security. Those who are not in village groups will be forced to steal from others.
    This period is called Scavengery because we will be forced to rely on the remains of our present industrial society. There will be little wood for fuel or building until the trees have had a chance to grow, and it will take many years to learn the skills of self-sufficiency and prepare the farmland. Our societies will have to change dramatically, with practices such as monogamy maybe giving way to polygamy, and interdependence becoming multi-skilling.

    4. Self-Sufficiency
    The final, permanent stage will be Self-Sufficiency. By now, everybody who is unable to convert to a sustainable, self-sufficient lifestyle would have died off, leaving only those in organized, independent groups to remain. With no oil or gas, and little accessible coal, industrial society will never return although we might eventually 'progress' to something like a Medieval level of civilization.

    Public Actions
    The politicians already know of oil depletion – at least, they have been told. Whether they believe it or not is another matter. Colin Campbell made a presentation to a House of Commons All-Party Committee on 7th July. 1999. Unfortunately so did the oil companies and government actions since then suggest that the danger was not recognized.

    That does not mean though that we should stop telling them. At some point, everyone will be forced to recognize oil depletion. If you have never been told of the problem, you probably won't see it until the television news comes on after a four-hour-long power cut and informs you that the world is facing a crisis. If you have already heard about it but don't believe it, a bell might go off in your head when you hear that world oil production has fallen for the fifth year in a row. ( or you could just blame the whole thing on some global oil company conspiracy to screw the working man)It is important therefore to keep badgering politicians, religious leaders, media heads, etc, even if they initially ridicule your pleas.

    Be cautious with your initial statements. Terms such as "the end of civilization" can mean instant rejection as a fanatical doomsayer. Convince them of the problem first, and then introduce the consequences. Technical terms such as "proved reserves" and "The Hubbert Curve" can be useful with some to show that you have done your research and are not just responding to a casual suggestion. Above all, give them something to follow up – a link to a website with more information, such as this one or those on the Further Information page.

    Generally, younger people are more open to ideas that older people (and I speak as someone in my 40s). The older person is less likely to want to change, less likely to accept the need for change, and has distant memories of the 1970s and how "everybody was predicting disaster then". There is also the feeling that, even if this does happen, they'll be long gone by then.

    Discussing oil depletion with a class of schoolchildren or students can be worthwhile. They are often interested in environmental subjects anyway and oil depletion is more immediate than climate change. In the same way that one of the most effective ways to get an adult to stop smoking is to get their kids to nag them, getting young people conscious of and interested in oil depletion is a vital step to w awareness.

    Personal Actions
    Personal actions will clearly depend on your own circumstances. If you are a single person with ample funds and no ties, your choices are different from somebody with a spouse, 2.2 children, a mortgage and a bank account in permanent overdraft. The most important thing to bear in mind is that our present society will not continue for much longer. Ideas of finding a job at 18, marrying, acquiring a house and a family, then retiring at 60 or 70, belong to history.

    The stock market, for instance, will be a volatile place once the world is aware, although some shares such as renewable energy might do well. If you have shares, you can always sell them once you see the signs of collapse, but things such as pensions which rely on the stock market are less helpful. If I was under 30, I would not bother with a pension – you could not claim it for another 30 years or so and who knows what the financial institutions would be like then, if they still exist. A better option would be to put money away regularly in a savings account. If you are planning a family, be cautious about the number of children you have. At the moment, you might have regular income and child welfare to supplement it or fall back on. State support will not always be there.

    During the Awareness and Transition periods, adaptability will be the most useful trait. Recession and the rise of unemployment may mean changing jobs – multiple skills and ample savings will help you through. Having at least some method of generating power and heat – solar panels and water heaters – will ease the effects of blackouts. Growing your own vegetables in the garden will reduce food costs. As the oil shortages grow worse, so does society. Unemployment and the cost of living will rise, governments will find it more difficult to pay welfare. People may well turn to crime to obtain what they need. Ordered Transition becomes Anarchic Transition. Riots may break out. Life in the towns and cities will become harsh and uncomfortable.

    Thoughts of retreating to a piece of farmland in the wilderness may seem attractive but should be treated with caution. An independent community needs a certain minimum size to be self-sufficient so it will be difficult to remain isolated and away from envious eyes. The only certainty about the the Transition will be that it is unpredictable. Wars and plagues may spread your way. The government may requisition your land for agricultural use. Those fleeing the towns and cities may stumble across you. You may need to be prepared to flee your hard-worked homestead. An ability to be flexible and access to usable transport may be the survivor's most important qualities.

    In the final term, the Self-sufficiency period, we may well end up in isolated villages, living a medieval lifestyle. It does not necessarily mean the end of civilization since the Egyptians and Aztecs managed perfectly well without oil and coal. But that is a difficult situation to forecast, so much depending on what wars are fought in the upcoming decades and how they affect you. It may be beyond the years of anyone reading this.
  9. CBMS

    CBMS Looking for a safe place

    Okay so Making your own BioDiesel. How is it done? Is there Any extra equipment? Can it be made without adding any Petro-Fuel? These are things I think we should Address.
  10. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Perhaps a better question is how do I get by without dragging the remnants of this technology along on alternatives .bio diesel still implies growing stuff for fuel,instead of food. Which will be far more valuable than frn's gold or crude.
    1860's folks got on .pretty well, we didn't have the population to support but folks still survived. I could envision draft animals coming into play again. park the dead suv facing south for a big food dryer...
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I just recieved a tanker load of diesel fuel this morning at the drilling site that I am currently on. I sign the tickets for all expenditures. Part of my job is cost control, try and drill the well as cheaply as possible. With bulk discount, and tax exemption, I paid $3.50 a gallon for 7,400 gallons. This drilling rig uses on average 1,600 gallons per day.

    I was just thinking how ironic it was. We are seeing higher fuel prices as the result of higher oil prices, higher oil prices are the result (in part )of higher production costs, higher production costs are the result (in part) of higher fuel costs. It is a catch 22 situation.

    Why would oil companies be paying for thier diesel? There are two parts to that. First is that each step of the process, from well to pump, is an independent entity. Drilling has nothing to do with production. Production has nothing to do with transportation. Transportation has nothing to do with refining. And refining has nothing to do with distribution. Each has thier own budget and profits. The presidents and execs of each branch are accountable for the bottom line of thier division.

    But, this is only applicable to the major oil companies. Those who own every step of the process from well to pump. And that is only a handful of companies in the world. But those are the ones we think of when we think of oil companies. Because those are the ones whose logos we see at our local filling stations. Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Texaco. But there aren't a dozen companies in the world who own both up and down stream operations.

    The vast majority of oil and gas companies are names that most people are not familliar with. Apache, Anadarko, Chesapeake, Devon, XTO, Vintage. These are the majority of the oi and gas producers in the business. But they only produce the product. they don't transport, refine or distribute it. In my 30+ years in the business, and the thousands of wells I have drilled, I have only worked for a major oil company two or three times.

    So the oil companies produce the oil, sell it to the majors who transport and refine it, then the oil company buys the finished product back from the major to use in thier operations to find and produce more oil. Kind of a revolving door.

    I just thought it ironic that the very producers who we blame for the high oil prices are seeing thier costs increase also due to the high cost of the product that they are bringing to the market.

    I was looking back at some other tickets from January. We were paying $2.74 a gallon just 3 months ago.

    I'm afraid we are going to see it go higher as the year progresses. they are predicting $4 a gallon for regular gasoline this summer. If trends continue that means diesel will be higher than that.
  13. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    You can get the oil from the oilseeds without destroying the food value of the seeds. Take any seed oil, add a ratio mix of methanol (HEET trademark) and caustic, aka Lye, aka sodium or potassium hydroxide. This mixture is what you call methoxide. This ratio is determined by the cleanliness of the oil (french fried oil is dirty etc). Too much caustic and you'll make soap. Mix oil and methoxide, allow to separate. The bottom layer is glycerine, caustic and methanol and waste for the BD process. take top layer the good stuff and then add water. mix slowly, allow to separate, repeat until water is clear this washes out the caustic and methanol from the biodiesel. once the water is clear then allow oil to dry a few days and it can go into your tank. This is refined biodiesel. By doing this process you have taken out the things that will gum up the injectors. You can add the oil straight (no refinement) however after a few tanks full you'll have clogged injectors.

    FYI take waste layer of glycerine, caustic and methanol. distill the methanol and reuse. take the glycerine and make soap or add nitric acid and ... well we don't want to go too far. hee hee hee

    Look up fractional distillation, that is how they "refine" oil. laymans terms, heat up oil , the small stuff vaporizes and then it is turned back to liquid as it rises in a column. the tar and asphalt stay at the bottom, least volatile, the natural gas, most volatile, is what they usually burn at the top of the stack.
  14. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I paid $2.59/gal for diesel last night which was a few cents less than regular gasoline. Hope it stays below regular gas for awhile but I'm not holding my breath.
  15. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Here in North Florida, regular gas is between $2.59 and $2.65, depending on whether they have gotten the latest delivery.
    Diesel has been rock steady around $2.29 for months, while gas was all over the place up and down. Now, diesel just went to $2.49.

    Last autmn during the post-hurricane gasoline shortage, as gas got over $4 a gallon (even $5 a gallon in a few gouging stations), diesel stayed pretty steady and relatively low. The owners of diesel cars and PU trucks had to be chuckling as the gas-owners were frantically trying to find stations that still had gas.

    If we get another bad hurricane event this year, it'll likely be worse. But, I doubled my stored gas for this season. I got by okay last year, but another month of shortage would have had me hopping looking for gas too.

    I do fully expect to see $3 per gallon regular gas by the Fourth of July weekend, at the current rate it is going up. $4 a gallon by late summer is very probable. Especially if TPTB tack on the increased taxes they are talking about.
  16. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

survivalmonkey SSL seal warrant canary