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Sometimes, it's hard being honest

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Beano, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Beano

    Beano Monkey

    I'm on Staff Duty today, and out doing security checks of all the training areas. I make my way out to one of the demo ranges, not a soul within five miles, everything is locked up tight for the weekend......except for a nice little Briggs & Stratton 5500w Genny; full tank of gas, started right up.

    I was thinking about turning it into a lesson in securing equipment, but integrity got the better of me.
    HK_User and Brokor like this.
  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Good. I don't have enough ammo to waste it on thieves......;)
    Brokor and Beano like this.
  3. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    You're a good man, Mr. Bean

    Still, a lesson learned is often the best bet. Sometimes not worth the trouble, so I see your point.

    And I hated staff duty.
    Beano, tulianr and Yard Dart like this.
  4. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I would not have stolen it. But I would have had a couple Base Police types come and make a report including serial number, and data plate info, then have them take custody of it, and put it in impound. If I knew where it was supposed to be secured I would leave a note on the door or gate there, "missing something important and expensive?" "if so contact, name and phone ext"
    In the past while on active duty, I have taken an unsecured, unattended sidearm that was supposed to be on a watchstanders hip. I secured it in my division office safe and waited for the crap to hit the fan. When It did I called the wardroom and told the command duty officer I would be right up to see him. We made an agreement. I kept possession (I was the senior gunnersmate and had signed for all of them anyway). I issued a replacement, read the 3 quarterdeck watchstanders the riot act, and told them an official investigation had been started (I was also the chief master at arms) and this was serious. The CDO gave all three of them an additional watch, the 4am to 8am watch. All persons leaving the ship until 8am the following morning had to be searched for the missing firearm.
    At 745am the next morning I presented the Petty Officer of the Watch with the missing firearm since he was the last one to sign for it, and to contact the duty gunnersmate and properly turn it in. Otherwise everyone was off the hook, and no official report beyond the CDO was ever made. When departing the ship with retirement orders I asked the CO if he ever heard of or knew about the incident. He had not and asked for details. I told him, "I am sorry Captain but I have forgotten all the details of who was involved."
    Beano, tulianr, Yard Dart and 2 others like this.
  5. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    Was there a procedure for either securing or reporting unsecure articles found on watch. If not I would run that up the chain to improve the procedure since the next soul to come upon it may not have your integrity..... [winkthumb]
  6. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    By the way, it is not hard being honest!! But some day's it can be hard, not using others stupidity against them, just not in this situation..... In this case you did the right thing.
    Beano and Brokor like this.
  7. ditch witch

    ditch witch resident bacon hoarder Site Supporter+

    I wouldn't have stolen it, BUT...

    When I started working as a city manager, one of the biggest problems was tools and equipment going walkabout. A lot of it was due to the employees stealing it, but a lot was also because the jits would just leave stuff lying all over the place. I swear the city had supplied 75% of the residents with weed eaters one year. Anyway, I took to going out at lunch and driving around wherever I knew they'd been working, and anything I found I carted back to work and hid it somewhere. It was interesting to see how long it took them to realize the stuff was gone. Some didn't until the next day, and then tried to claim they saw someone, generally an employee they didn't like, get it out of their truck.

    So yeah I'd have carted it off somewhere safe and out of sight and then waited for the lies and excuses to begin.
    Mindgrinder and tacmotusn like this.
  8. Akheloce

    Akheloce Monkey++

    On a TDY once (temporary duty for non mil types) We parked our Blackhawk at a civilian terminal at an airport. The member of our crew who was last to be at the aircraft was late getting to the hotel, and late showing up in the morning for the continuation of our cross country flight (it was planned, since he worked late, he was allowed to show late)

    When we got to the aircraft, we saw that a cargo door was slightly open, he had forgotten to close and lock it the night before. Being the a-holes we are, we stripped the center console of all the radios (about a million $ worth), put them in a duffel in the van, then went inside the office to flight plan.

    When the crewmember showed up, I asked him to start the preflight, and I'd be out in a minute to help. The other 3 of us went to the windows to watch his reaction... He totally freaked out. He started rummaging through the aircraft frantically, then stood outside for at least a minute, assumably formulating what he was going to say when he came in.

    He eventually sauntered in, and said "we need to call the FBI". Holding back our laughter, we inquired why, and he said that someone broke into the aircraft and stole everything. "Everything? Even the secret codes?" replied a pilot. Now he turned even more red.

    We let it play for another couple of minutes, where I even feigned getting on the phone with the FBI. Eventually, a pilot snuck out to the van, grabbed the bag with the radios and set them at his feet. A simple "don't let this happen again" was enough to sent him scurrying back to the helicopter to reinstall the radios, and learn a very important lesson.
  9. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Red is the problem. "they should do something..." "society of rats".
    Green is the solution. "good neighbor policy."
  10. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I covered all bases. I would have a copy of their report with the serial number and them taking custody. If it disappeared base police would have their own meat hanging out on the chopping block. I would do a follow up. Also there needs to be consequences for negligence or improper actions.
  11. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Assigned to TAD to help another unit I was assisting a Stores Type in breaking down shipments and doing the whole intake bit of checking off invoices and stacking them in groups by departments. WHOOA, I open a smal brown carboard box and find a 1000 count bottle of DARVON (now banned for use by the FDA). My Guts turned over and I broke into a cold sweet. I told the man I was working with that we were going to stop and stand watch over this Drug and wait for a roving guard to come by. In about 30 minutes one did and I told him to get the CO and we would wait in place till the CO arrived. You can bet that was one real Clusterfrag and woke up the Supply People for this came with NO paper work. I never heard another word and I always wonder what the setup was.
    Beano likes this.
  12. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    ....I suppose.....I'm just not a fan of calling cops for every little thing under the sun.
    Beano likes this.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    What is it that you do not understand about doing ones job?
  14. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    My job isn't to be a civilian spy for every power tripping man/women in uniform. My job isn't to help fund the revenue generation of the police state by ratting on everyone I can catch doing something against a "bylaw". My job isn't to grant power to "enforcers".

    My duty would be to prevent a theft in progress....not call the cops then run and hide. If someone makes a mistake, it's not always appropriate to "call in the enforcers" to ensure they are taught a lesson.
  15. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    You should go back and read the post, not just try to add your own version and hijack it.

  16. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    I did read it.
    I didn't see any reason to call the "authorities", though I do understand how someone would feel a need to "cover their butt with documentation".
    Frankly I find it disappointing but that doesn't mean I don't understand the mindset.
    OP doesn't mention if he called in the "heat" and my comments were to Tac.
    Cop brings gun to a snowball fight. (Enforcers have too much power)

    On that note - i'll remove myself from "hijacking the tread".
  17. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey..... Moderator Site Supporter++

    As the SDO @Beano was within his jurisdiction and required to secure the property in some manner or to report it so the proper party could take charge of the item. His duty is to inspect and report all issues within his AO to the chain of command via his duty log or other means....such as calling the MP's and having them take over the issue. We are not talking about Barney Fife coming out and doing a report- but of securing un-attend gear, regardless of the unit that was responsible for the issue. And yes there is a bit of covering your but by taking some action to report and remedy the issue. If you do not say anything and the OD finds it, then you will have some explaining to do on why you did not report, or why you did not go thru your inspection of all areas assigned (if you try to play dumb and say you did not see it). Nobody was going to get arrested for leaving this out un-secured, but there are many ways to teach careless troops about leaving things to be stolen. If that had been me in that situation I would have secured the gear, even if it meant taking it to my unit until I could identify the proper owner- lest someone with questionable ethics showed up and stole the item. Which then becomes a much bigger pain to deal with.....

    The moral dilemma escapes me, as I do not understand why you would even have a second thought to take the un-secured item. #1- is it belongs to someone other than you. #2- it is your job as @HK_User said, as the SDO to protect and secure all personnel and equipment..... and that says it all in my book.
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  18. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Mindgrinder, things may have changed since I retired in 1994 from the military, but my experience is that they were much more informal than civilian authorities. Taking custody of some misplaced or unattented high value equipment was much like turning it in to a lost and found (the difference being they would document the whole thing). Recovery of the item in question would not be painless from the viewpoint of, people would have to be informed and ownership would be verified. It also wouldn't be all that difficult, as in, person A. would have to go to the base police and show ID and would state he failed to secure said item, and that he needed to recover same. Base police would ask for info with regard to who person A. worked for. This would be verified. Questions would be asked about proof of ownership of the impounded item. Proof would have to be provided before said item would be released. There would be no prosecution by base police or fees for storage in impound. Item would be returned to rightful owners. Negligent person A. might face minor disciplinary action by his Commanding Officer, or not. Being attached to a ship in homeport, a small ship, no storage of the item at my commands facility (the ship), would be available, nor would temp storage there be looked upon as anything except possible theft. Nor would I have the time or inclination to guard the object or provide a guard for the object (thus for the reason to call the base police to secure the item). This situation may not well compare to a civilian situation. I have had instances of securing a high value unattended item in this manner.
    Mindgrinder, Yard Dart and HK_User like this.
  19. Akheloce

    Akheloce Monkey++

    There is a huge difference in involving law enforcement in a civilian setting vs on a military installation.

    The biggest difference is the owner of the property (not an individual, but our collective employer). As members of the military, we are all stewards of the taxpayer's property. It is our collective responsibility to make sure it is secure. That includes everyday soldiers, and military police.

    When calling the MP's, you are not involving the govt when it's not needed, the govt is already involved since we work for the govt, and the property belongs to the govt (taxpayers). Calling military police is simply transferring responsibility of the item from the finder, to those who are delegated to safeguard the taxpayer's assets, including the whole installation.

    In my previous post, you saw where I flew Blackhawk helicopters.. Now I fly C-17's. There have been several times where I land at a base, have sensitive cargo, and call the police. I then transfer responsibility of the security of the plane and cargo to the police while I'm sleeping. That is their job, to secure govt. property.
    tacmotusn, HK_User and kellory like this.
  20. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja Jedi Bipolar WINNING M.L.F.

    Education assimilated.
    ghrit and tacmotusn like this.
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