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Spying thru social media

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Ladyhawke, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Ladyhawke

    Ladyhawke Monkey+

  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    1. "Al-Quada" is a CIA outfit.
    2. "Terrorists" are trained, funded, and protected by the secret government in the U.S. and abroad.
    3. Therefore, this software will most likely be used against the American citizenry.

    I saved the web page for reference.
  3. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    The politico has no honor, but that's OK, I have ten different personalties to throw off their ten trolls.
  4. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I do not know how much I buy into this not being used against US citizens. At the website you provided there was a link to an article dated 3/16/10 that says otherwise.

    I realize this article does not say the military is spying but does mention governmental agencies doing the opposite of what the other article states.

    Here the link to the article I mentioned: Feds Using Fake Online Profiles To Spy On Suspects
  5. Ladyhawke

    Ladyhawke Monkey+

    I have no doubt that this type of thing is being used to spy on and influence americans. The concept is not a new one, just being used in a new way. I remember a few cases of news people creating fake identities to bolster an unpopular idea.
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I was working in the Middle East in the early nineties and came across a report that said every phone call made in the Kingdom could be recorded and that the technology had come from the US. When I was telling people about it they would invariably say things like it was against the law to use it in the US, or that our government would never do that to it's citizens.
    Then the truth of Project Echelon came out and it was verified (a wild conspiracy theory up till then) that the US government did indeed have a monitoring system that would monitor every call made in the US and over 200 identified "flag" words would trigger NSA computers to record the call and analysts would review them. Then came Project Carnivore ( another wild a..ed CT) and we learned that the technology had been applied to faxes, and later to emails, and today to any word on the web.
    This has been going on for years and continues to evolve along with technology.
    Everything we took for granted is gone. There is nothing for nothing any longer.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    And after a little digging you will find it's actually the Israeli's who have control of the communications monitoring -exclusively, in fact. It's their baby.
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    The clear lack of understanding of SIGINT technology in this thread is mind boggling. The general repetition of so-called "confirmed" CTs is just as interesting.

    Anytime you hear of "Project (insert name here)" you should generally be weary. Compartmentalized information is never named "project" anything. Nor are they ever named a single word. They are randomly chosen words from a standardized list. For an UNCLASS example of a "project name" just google Talent Keyhole.

    I will not say anymore than that. Of course at least 33.56% of the people in this thread believe that I am a gov't agent in disguise, so this could all just be misinformation.... unless my misinformation is actually truth that is meant to be read as misinformation injected by a gov't agent.

    [peep] ;)
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    The clear lack of understanding of the information in this thread is mind boggling. The general denial of confirmed "so-called" CTs is just as interesting.

    Echelon (signals intelligence) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The system has been reported in a number of public sources.[4] Its capabilities' and political implications were investigated by a committee of the European Parliament during 2000 and 2001 with a report published in 2001,[5] and by author James Bamford in his books on the National Security Agency of the United States.[3]

    In its report, the European Parliament states that the term ECHELON is used in a number of contexts, but that the evidence presented indicates that it was the name for a signals intelligence collection system. The report concludes that, on the basis of information presented, ECHELON was capable of interception and content inspection of telephone calls, fax, e-mail and other data traffic globally through the interception of communication bearers including satellite transmission, public switched telephone networks (which once carried most Internet traffic) and microwave links.[5]

    Carnivore (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Carnivore was a system implemented by the Federal Bureau of Investigation that was designed to monitor email and electronic communications. It used a customizable packet sniffer that can monitor all of a target user's Internet traffic. Carnivore was implemented in October 1997 and replaced in 2005 with improved commercial software such as NarusInsight.[2]

    Governmentality and the War on Terror: FBI Project Carnivore and the Diffusion of Disciplinary Power (Holly E. Ventura, J. Mitchell Miller, and Mathieu Deflem)

    Perhaps the most intrusive web-based technology ever developed, Carnivore possesses the ability to essentially wiretap individuals’ computers, accessing every piece of datum flowing to and from a Central Processing Unit (CPU), provided the data were moved on a network connection. But Carnivore opens up a privacy ‘can of worms,’ as the technology far out-paces present laws aimed at the protection of individual liberty and privacy. And, indeed, the surveillance project has already been examined on a number of grounds, including possible Fourth and First Amendment abuses and violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of 1986. Yet, although several groups have expressed a desire to challenge the project’s constitutionality, the ECPA at present remains the sole source of judicial action concerning Carnivore (American Civil Liberties Union [ACLU], 2002, 2003; StopCarnivoreNow, 2003; Gooldstein & Orr, 2003).

    It never ceases to amaze me that the rabid "conspiracy theory" de-bunkers are as prone to uninformed, mis-informed, opinions as they claim to de-bunk. A little research goes a long way.

    Of course at least 33.56% of the people in this thread believe that you are a troll.[troll]

  10. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    OMG, I don't think I've ever heard you talk like that :shock:
    I did not know you had it in you. You learn something new everyday or I've just been hiding under a rock too long.
  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer


    Please don't hurt my feelings [fnny]

    Your understanding and mine are completely different which is why its hard for me to respond to any CT threads.

    To put it in an analogy format:
    You are outside of a box trying grasp an understanding utilizing books (sold for profit), the rumor-net, and what half-delusional people repeat about what goes on in the box. I sit in the box.

    So, again, you can believe what you want. The rumor-net's so-called truths have done more to help protect capabilities than any classification or compartmentalization ever done in the US gov't.
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Is that a good thing or a bad thing? :D [reddevil]
  13. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have "No Comment" on this thread, other than to say, "There is a lot of wild speculation, being bandied about, here, by folks who have little, or no, first hand Knowledge, on the issue"......
  14. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Yeah maybe a little bit rash there. Maybe I should go and read a page or two of Tracy's posts. Get back my Zen balance...ohmmm.

    What trips my trigger is when people automatically scoff and dismiss stories as CT when they are well documented and proven. Echelon and Carnivore both are as real, documented and verifiable as is possible to be. Both have been covered on all the major news outlets, they are documented in the FBI's own literature, or Carnivore is anyway. The (IIRC) New York Times or maybe the Wall Street Journal ran a story on Echelon in early '0something and had interviews with a couple of NSA analysts who had quit because they were tired of having to listen to calls by citizens that mentioned the movie "bombed" or the kids baseball team "killed".

    I have seen these "wild a..ed CT's" and others become admitted fact too many times to summarily dismiss something new out of hand until it is proven otherwise. That, IMHO, is the far more rational and prudent approach. Not just writing everything off that doesn't fit into ones own personal world view. Now the implications of them are another matter entirely. Echelon and Carnivore are real, documented programs but the use they are put to, benign or malevolent, is a whole other can of worms.

    Not all hoof beats are horses. Especially when you live in a zoo!!

    Oh, and BTW, I haven't seen that it is "hard for me to respond to any CT threads". Just sayin [beer]

    And another BTW, the sun is just coming up here and I am only on my first cup of coffee, tread lightly! Might account for my shocking CC this morning.
  15. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    To respond to the original post here...

    If you read the contract information in the FOIA, it's clear who is paying for this contract. It is not some super, secret NSA project to spy on our own people. It is in fact CENTCOM who's primary responsibility is the Middle East. Why the heck would the .gov pay for a contract though an open bid .mil account to have it FOIAed and turn up on Survival Monkeys? Especially considering there is a classified budget for certain other agencies.

    Here are facts:

    1. The US Army is currently setting up a Cyber Command to address the continued use of Cyber Space to conduct attacks (China is a fine example; Irans virus issues are unofficially acknowledged as a combined effort of a few allies).
    2. Middle Eastern terrorists routinely used the rumornet to talk, move funds, recruit, etc. CENTCOM is finally addressing this. I'd say about less than .5% of our war efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan even addressed this domain. Information is king and we must fight the full spectrum.
    3. There has been quite a few "uproars" in the Middle East lately. Remember CENTCOM's AOR ^ from above? Well, don't you think monitoring what locals are saying on the social sites might be beneficial to staying on top of developing situations.

    Remember..... horses, not zebras \/
  16. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    See, part of the issue is I thought this would be a legitimate liberty thread. Instead, we ended up with the CIA and Al Quaeda being the real government. To the best of my knowledge we have a Tin Foil Lounge for this sort of thing.

    I've seen a gradual shift in Survival Monkeys since I first started visiting here. It used to be a place about prepping and reality. It's more and more about CTs and wild theories. Frankly, its becoming a turn off.

    All the CT spread throughout all sections of this forum are distracting. For instance, Obama is openly talking about more gun control and Wayne LaPierre is pretty much shutting down communication. While we are here wasting time with Osama and CIA, real threats to freedom are occurring.

    [soap] I'll step down now.

    I hope you aren't really angry.... [beer]
  17. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    To the communications expert and Hispeedal2, I'll make this simple. Excuse my ignorance but I am curious, not that I'm doing anything wrong. I would just like to be a little more educated and know if our Freedoms are being compromised.

    Are we being spied upon by the US government? I swear that is what I read from the linked articles from the OP and the link I found at the same website.
  18. ColtCarbine

    ColtCarbine Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Spill it [beat]
  19. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I will answer with this- how much you are being spied on depends entirely on how much you are connected to international threats to national security.

    Everyone assumes a capability = X

    Reality is that its not at all like that. There are clear divisions amongst what agencies/departments do. I see it mis-represented here on SM at least daily. At least read the mission statement of the agency if you are going to accuse them of something. DOD does not spy on US persons. This I know for a fact. Annual Intel Oversight training has reiterated where and whom I can collect to the point of vomiting. That line is not crossed. (Came about when Army intel was used to spy on a certain political party and certain activists during the 60s.) As both a patriot and a Officer, I am proud to say that I am glad that intel oversight exists and I see the need.

    I don't really want to get into what every agency on the planet is for, but the FBI is primarily responsible for investigating terrorism (both international and domestic). If this thread was about the FBI buying said systems.... maybe a different discussion. Even then, warrants doth apply. Before someone jumps on "but the Patriot Act", don't get your panties in a wad. There still has to be reasonable suspicion to electronically eavesdrop. Most the Patriot Act has expired and as long as you aren't funding Hamas, you are probably not being monitored.

    Here is another issue... most people overate how many people can be monitored at any given time. To assume that every American is always being monitored when on a cyber domain is ludicrous. The systems that "filter" are only as good as the filter criteria. In the end, it takes an analyst to sit down and review the information to decide relevance. How many people do you think are doing that right? Most would be surprised (maybe in an uproar) if they new how few analysts v. how many threats.
  20. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I see a lot of the debate about so-called CTs or any kind of spying technology etc comes down to what it is used for. I see articles like the one in the OP and imagine the what if. The potential for abuse, for true infringements upon civil liberties.
    thers see it as a lot of todo about nothing. It is harmless, it is only used against the "bad" guys etc. Anyone making noise about it is a CT.

    It is just like the stories that occasionally crop up about FEMA camps and plans by government agencies for continuity of government etc.
    These things exist. They are not a figment of anyone's imagination. But what are they for? Are they simply disaster planning, war gaming by govt. agencies? The answer is probably yes, it is simply that. But does there lie within a possibility for abuse? Can these programs that are created for benign purposes be used for nefarious ones? Should we discuss that and ponder the possibilities? Again I think that is the prudent, and relevant position to take. Not to simply scoff at and brand anything that raises the possibility of abuse as CT and therefore of no merit.

    I think that belies the confrontation between those who espouse CT's and those who despise them. It is in the eye of the beholder. One mans threat to liberty is another mans wild eyed, sky is falling, BS. Somewhere in the middle lies the prudent path.

    Some hear hoof beats and dismiss it as only horses, some hear them and wonder, "could that be zebras?" [beer] And then Brokor thinks it is a herd of Rhinos!! Just kidding B!

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