standardized on caliber

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by radpug, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. radpug

    radpug Monkey+

    I have been reading and looking into some firearms.
    It looks to me like it would be more affordable to standardized one caliber.

    I was thinking 9mm. I know you have handguns, and rifles in the same ammo.
    I like the kiss principal. Keep it simple stupid. so too me that could work.
    any suggestions on handgun, rifle and carbine?

    I plan on going to cc class and taking a hunting class as well.
    I want too hunt this winter.
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I have tried on many occasions, to cut all my firearms back to 12 gauge, .223. .308, .45acp. .38. and .22. I shoot .38 Super and .40 S&W in USPSA competitions, sometimes I shoot a 10mm revolver too but in a pinch, I can shoot .40 out of the 10mm. I thought that it would be so much more simple only to have six different types ammunition to keep but then the 7mm Weatherby magnum really does shoot great and you never know when you might need a . 30 caliber carbine for the wife or kids? And what kind of rifleman wouldn't want a .375 H&H magnum, that is a real man's rifle, after all. And I couldn't part with my .45-120 Sharps or the .45-70 double rife. And 20 gauge is so much easier on game birds, and that little .410 is really hell on quail. I would never part with my Garand or 1903 Springfield, so there will always be a need for .30-06 and the Remington .270 is such an improvement on the .30-06 for North American game. I did traded the .303 for an Ishapore in .308, so at least I made some progress in standardization but then I had so many 7.62 x 39 AKs and SKSs, that when Rick needed one for his AKM in 5.45x39mm, I got the .303 back as boot in the trade. Then there is the Colt Python in .357 (yea, I know I can shoot .38s in it) BUT Model 29 and the Anaconda both need .44 magnums to really perform and no real shooter of big revolvers is complete without a .454 Casull but I have drawn the line at that .50 S&W, at least for the time being! I can barely feed the .45 long colts. Now they are making so many more top ends for AR-15s, that I am tempted to get a 6mm Grendal or a ....I don't Have any 9mm!...uh..except the uzi and that 92FS...well there are those .380s that I carry around and that .22 magnum mini-revolver, and the little Colt .22 short, it's cute as a button. The .44 Special and .44-40 revolvers don't really use that much ammunition, they are mostly just for occasional shooting and the 16 Gauge Browning belonged to my Uncle, so naturally it stays. The Mausers are WW II, so 8mm Mauser is needed and those Mosin Nagants M44s and that pseud0 Soviet sniper rifle need 7.62 x 54, I can't just let them starve! My wife asked what I needed with a 40mm Grenade launcher, can you believe that? Just the other evening, a friend was admiring my 4-bore rifle and I mentioned that I have something with rifles even larger and he called "BS". so out came the M79! and if that doesn't demonstrate at least a cursory need, then what does? I have two tupperware storage boxes of spare magazines that weigh exactly 119 pounds.
    I am probably not the right person to be responding to a thread on standardizing calibers; sorry.[dunno]
  3. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    This is a FAIR Idea in Principal, but in reality, has limitations that need to be understood, so that the Shooter understands, the differences for each weapon type.
    1. Barrel Length plays a Significant part in Muzzle Energy of any specific Cartridge Loading. Too short of Barrel, with to Slow of Powder Burn Rate, will limit Muzzle Energy, and Velocity, in that particular Weapon.
    2. Most Long Guns can use Cartridges, with significantly higher Chamber Pressures, than the corresponding Handguns chambered for the SAME cartridge. You are giving up significant Muzzle Energy and Velocity by using a Handgun Loading in a Long Gun.
    3. These issues were originally subject to investigation, back in the mid to late 1800s, with the 44-40 Cartridges that were common, in both Black Powder, and early Smokeless Powder, loadings for Revolvers and Rifles, cambered for that cartridge. Back in that day, it was common to have Cartridges, with Specific Loadings, for each of the FireArm types.
  4. dociceit

    dociceit Monkey+

    Simplifying calibers is a must in a survival situation. The less you have to carry/store the easier it is to get around. Ammunition can get heavy quickly. There are a lot of pistol caliber rifles/cabines on the market. Many AR's can be found in 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Their range may not be 300 yards, but they will take game and defend a position if necessary. Personally, I'm looking at Berreta's Px4 and Cx4 lines. Both use the same magazines and caliber. The cabine is a perfect size to use in close quarters and will hit hard enough out past 100 yards. The Px4 comes in a full size and a sub compact. Now, just practice using both in many situations and you are ready. Yes, I too, love my Garand but if I need to survive in inhospitable areas and have a family to protect I want to be able to move quickly and be unhindered with a lot of extra bulk that would come from many types of caliber. If I run out of one, now what? I got a heavy club. Not good. Just my 2 cents worth.
  5. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey+++

    my basic go to weapon calibers for shtf use weapon system for pratice
    38.special for back up revolver for main shtf handgun for main shtf rifle

    add the following item

    a 177 cal pellet caliber for pratice with the air rifle

    bowtech 82nd airborne bow for hunting
  6. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Calibre standardisation Vs calibre diversity

    Welcome, Radpug and Dociceit...a good topic to cut your forum teeth on and introduce yourself to the other forum members.

    Standardising calibres and weapons make a lot of sense, certainly there are savings to be made in bulk buying one or two calibres standard across weapon platforms, and in savings on spare parts and reloading equipment and consumables. in most things in the survival to problems often involve the factor known as trade off (closely allied to the word compromise).

    Having a standardised calibre of 9mm may perhaps be viable in an urban environment where engagement ranges are more likely to be 100 meteres or less, 9mm becomes a lot less effective as a man hurter, let alone a man stopper out past 100 metres, even with a carbine.

    Just as no single weapon platform can superlatively fulfill all posssible survival requirements, no one single calibre can superlatively fulfill all possible survival requirements. Any single calibre will do some things well, and some things poorly, but will probably do them better than nothing at all. The best that one can hope for are compromises and tradeoffs if a single calibre strategy is the strategy that is being banked upon. Whether 9mm, .45ACP or .357 magnum will offer adequate value as opposed to .223 or .308 and a pistol calibre combo is a debatable proposition.

    In a survival situation having a single calibre makes sense logistically, but you are putting all your logistical eggs in one basket, and you may find that when you can no longer buy ammo at the store, you will be relying on barter or other windfall opportunities to commonly available will 9mm be when SHTF??

    There may be something to be said for having a diversity of calibre options and weapon platforms. If you are in a survival group, standardising on common calibres for side arms and main battle rifles makes sense, but as to hunting weapons, provided that the main calibres of 12 gauge .22, .223, .308 and .30-06 are covered.......vivre le difference!
  7. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    I consolidated my caliber back in 94. My chosen calibers are;
    308, 7.62x39,9MM,357 Mag, 12 gage, 410 gage, and of course 22 LR.

    I do have a couple strap hangers calibers. 30-30, 22 mag, 32 ACP. These strap hangers or for sentimental reasons, or in the 32's case our back up gun. I don't stock a lot of rounds for them.

    Also my 9 MM's are all Glock or take Glock magazines, except for my 940. My 357 are both GP 100's, thus take the same speed loaders. I have carbines in each of my pistol calibers.

    My choices fit us and our situation. YMMV.
  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I try to match what I carry to the Seasons. As Spring has sprung a folder and when it's cold more reach. Terrain should always be a major factor. As I believe they all work well enough when one practices with them so when I travel a 9 or 45 and a folder. .
  9. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    I go the other route - being a collector of both rimfires (quite a variety there alone!) and milsurps, I am currently set up to reload for 17 different calibers. But, if I had to BO, I would limit my calibers to certain ones that give the proper performance, that I have a good stock for, and that are easily available commercially.
    I see no reason to hobble my collection. Variety makes gun collecting fun.
    craneje likes this.
  10. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    I have a variety of different weapons. Example my 308 are, a FAL, BLR, and a BAR. The same goes for the 22 LR.

    However when it comes to things like magazines I don't want a bunch of different types. It just makes live easier for me.

    But as I said YMMV. Everyone has to do what is best for them and their situation.
  11. radpug

    radpug Monkey+

    Thanks for the replys.
    I can see having different calibers for different situations, right tool for right job.
    I was just thinking of saving funds. I have thought about a lot of options including
    Mosins and mauser for hunting and defense. They seem very simple and easly maintainable. I see Less parts less beakable.
  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    One calibre fits all solution???

    Here here.

    Having a capability to reload 17 different calibres gives you a very saleable barter skill in TEOTWAWKI times, and enables you to make maximum benefit of windfall acquisitions of weaponry and ammunition.

    Good point about magazines, and you are spot on in your final paragraph.

    For myself, I'm not in favour of a one size (calibre) fits all solution. I favour a battery approach, the core of which would be:
    Defence: Rifle .308 bolt action
    Shotgun 12 gauge pump
    Pistol .357 magnum revolver

    Hunting: Rifle .223 bolt action
    Shotgun .22 / 20 gauge (Savage 24C Camper)
    Pistol .22 revolver

    Multi Purpose - Training / hunting / backup defence

    Rifle .357 magnum lever action
    Shotgun .410
    Air Rifle .177 and .22

    Additional calibres I'd find useful

    Rifle .22 Hornet,(it can make use of swaged .22 empty cases
    .243, (can make use of necked down .308 cases)
    .22wmr a fairly commonly available ammo item

    A black powder rifle / fowling piece (capability of manufacturing my own ammunition from scratch when factory reloading components are unavailable.)
  13. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I have to agree with the reloading being a major Trade item. I have dies, powder, bullets, and molds for all of my guns. I am not sure how many? .22 Hornet, .223., .270, .308, .30 carbine, .30-30, .30-06, .7mm Weatherby, .243, .45-70, .45-120. .577 Musket, .375 H&H, . 416 Rigby, .500 Nitro, .50 BMG, 7.62x 51, 7.62x 39, 7.62x54, 8mm, .32-40, .35 Remington, .38 Special, .357 magnum, .38 Super, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp, .45 schofield, .45LC, .454 Casull, 10mm,,25acp, .44 special, .44 magnum, .41 magnum, .380, .32 auto, .38 auto, 5.45x39, and .218 Bee.I am sure that I missed a few but the ability to build bullets is critical.
    IR192 likes this.
  14. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I'm with Seacowboys plan of a lot of diff. weapon calibers ...
    Have one of each caliber carried by the modern armed force's..up too at least the.308...
    But by the same token i buy ammo at flea market's for calibers that i don't own...
    Example 1-box of 20 .454 casull for 10.00 buck's...and
    I buy these for the Trade/Barter factor...
  15. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I'm in the camp of What is available and popular in you neck of the woods.

    In my area its .22lr,12ga, .223 and .308 and 9mm and .40.
    so, I try (note the word try) to standardize on what my local non-affiliated hardware has in stock. Big box stores would probably be the first cleaned out in a trouble situation.

    Anyway, I went with .22lr,12ga and .223.
    I deviated on the pistol to 7.62x25 for the shear cost savings on a pistol calibre. I can pick up 1260 rounds for around 100 dollars. And they are sealed for longevity. I can pick up and store more than i hope i'll ever need for relatively cheap.

    I do have some 20ga,9mm and .308 for trade good if need be but I'd rather trade non offensive things first, like matches, candles or tp. Ok, maybe not TP.
    hank2222 likes this.
  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I've owned a 22K/22 Hornet since the 1970s; so I am curious how is that accomplished?
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I swage bullets for .22 Hornet and .223 out of spent .22 LR brass. You can't stretch the brass enough to make Hornet brass from it but you can make the bullets with a little lead wire and a bullet swageing press.
  18. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    .22 hornets

    I know that this is going off topic but....

    I like the idea of being able to reload a .22 hornet cartridge with recycled materials that would be suitable for small game, particularly if the supply of .22lr may be uncertain. I like the idea even better that .223 cartridges can be reloaded with swaged spent .22lr brass. Does .223 reloaded with swaged projectiles require lighter powder charges than factory loaded cartridges??

    Are there cartridge alternatives to .22 hornet that can be necked down to fit a .22 hornet chamber??
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Chelly, if you don't get a good answer to that from reloading monkeys, you might have a look at the Handloader's Bench forum linked on the main page. Those guys know some s**t and might have a good, ready recipe.
  20. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Thankyou for the advice ghrit.
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