Starvation Starts Small

Sloth, go to the market and stand in line, 6 feet back, and see more and more people with basic foods, milk, oatmeal, cheap chicken, cheap hamburger, lots of pasta and cheap sauce, rice, food that fills you up but lacks a lot on the long run food value, and their bills are running $200 to $300.

I don't know how a family like I was raised in, 5 kids, little money, most food home baked, home canned, or from garden, could ever make it today. 75 years ago we had the land for a good garden and the ability to can stuff for winter and could trade work for part of beef or a hog. Cut it up, canned it, made sausage, cured and smoked hams and bacon.

Growing up we never lacked for anything but money. There is getting to be a lot of quiet desperation here as more and more people are running out of money and hope. Just pray that the Democrat line, put us in charge and you will have every thing you need, doesn't tempt more than the urban poor.. It has worked so well in all of the cities they control that they wish to make a nation wide franchise of the programs. Ben Franklin spoke of liberty and security, and giving up one to achieve the other and never being able to end up with either. Not going to try to quote it as everyone twists it to fit their needs.

 

Im Canadian On Van Island , ,,We are in our own micro climate ,, I do see Homeless , but not like in WA state ..
I care not of what side of the line im on , I'd do the same , (I did have the wife/boss with me , so it was not a hit-on/ [some BS] and was just help) I have not been in USA since Feb , June was a transfer of a machine with only Airport to port ,, So I didn't get out to see friends & top up beer fridges !!
Sloth

 

We have 5 of our 6 chest freezers running currently, last one will fill when I slaughter a couple pigs in the next month or so. I like smaller freezers for that reason......if one fails, you don't lose a huge amount. Our run in the 7-9cuft range. And I have a spare chest and two uprights (that we use to quick freeze meat when there is a whole bunch at one time from a kill).

Part of freezer row:

 

Hope you've got the fuel to run a generator indefinitely.
I used a freezer for a while till I realized all the energy it takes to keep it going.
Canned meats are the better choice in my book.

 

Solar powered here that can run all 8 , plus house and shop , 18KW system
S

Harvest Right deep freeze units coming next ,Large SS units times 2..

 

Chest freezers are actually quite efficient. according to the energy star rating, i'm going to use 218 kwh per year or a little over 32 bucks for my new 11 cu. ft unit.

 

\6-8 costs the same as a 25 + on 2 inch walls ,,
puter FU , Not woth my time

 

I do. It's call sunshine.

I actually tested all the freezers with a Kil-a-Watt meter to see what they drew in power. Ranged from a low on .45kwhrs/per 24 hr day to a high of .78 for the worst one. We did this to see which to consolidate and cut off first, which is our way of using them.

So when ALL 6 are running, the use is a maximum of about 4kwhrs/day. My solar power for the house (6kw) has a sunny day production of around 30kwhrs/day. I just finished setting up a new 6kw system in my shop that I haven't fully load tested out yet, but expect it will run in the same range. If need be, I could move one or more of the freezers to the shop. Given a 4 day autonomy on battery power, I think 60kwhrs/day will have plenty of reserve to handle 4 kwhrs/day for the freezers and a whole lot left over.

Also, I have an additional 10kw in panels that are grid tie only connected under normal conditions to negate our electric bill. Should a very long term grid down situation occur, I would rewire those into a 'local' grid, (which fools the inverters into 'thinking they are still on grid, and keep producing) and they would add an additional 10kw to our needs during sunshine hours, further reducing the load on the other 12kw off grid system.

 

They really are. We've found Danby energy star rated units to be among the best. Our 9cf freezers test out at less than a 1/2kwhr/day, or less than 180kwhrs/year

 

NO

 

@TnAndy Mine are 25 CF at 1.4Kw/day , Still buying used ones for backup and dry feed storage .
Sunfun is nice ,just got the hot water done on solar , the right way this time !! Got solar collectors for sale !!
Sloth

 

We're in Ocala FL too. And have seen the lines of cars waiting for food at numerous places. We pass one church almost everyday on the way out to hike with the dogs in the Forest. The line starts at the church, comes out the looooong driveway, strings along the side of highway 40, and backs up into a neighborhood. I'm betting some of those young parents sitting waiting for food are my old elementary school students. Brings it home.
The groceries have shortages and outright empty shelves here and there pretty regularly. The stores have taken to "fronting" some food on the shelves to make it look like they have plenty. I assume to stave off panic buying. There has been limits set on some goods since March. If you're on a fixed income it's hard to prep anyway, but not even being able to feed yourself week to week much less buy extra ? ...
I guess a lot of us on this board have to resist thinking, "I told you to start prepping." to friends and family much less saying it. Indeed some still haven't seen the writing on the wall. Or maybe it's just denial. Or being part of the "sheep flock". Or the young peoples' seeming attitude that the government will/should take care of their needs and wants because they're entitled to it.
Whatever the case, we've already gone down the 3 days is enough prep because that's what the government says you should, to 2 weeks is enough, to a month, to several (quite awhile back), to I started getting heirloom seeds last year. Another package of mylar bags came the other day. Sourcing more Ball jars.
It's no longer if or when. It's happening now.

 

Do you have some suggestions on how to rig the rid tied system to run independently?

 

I was saving seeds from my last heirloom cucumbers last night. I will do the egg plant and tomatoes this weekend too. I am not sure what is going to happen but work is pretty quiet. I wonder if we are headed for another layoff here. I’d hate to lose more of my guys.

 

@mysterymet
I run a Gridtie system that the programming lets you have the freezers on the backup side of the system , im good for 4 days of no sun with 7 units ,, DO not ask the cost !! TN Andy has it figured , im sure .. after that , in winter after a bad snow , and cloud cover , back up gen comes on for picking up loads and then after that load has balanced for 5 mins the Grid tie inverter will recharge the batterys of what you have set the ratio at , (of charge , & not to overload the gen set) .
Crap days I'll use gen for 9 hr's burning 1.5 -2 USG max of diesel .
On great days , the solar has charged the bank and when it see's float the grid tie feed back come on ..
Sloth

 

I assume you mean a typical grid tie solar power setup. IF so, get ready for "Solar 201"......

You have to have a "split" system.....by that I mean part/all of your system has to be battery based, the other part grid-tie only based, which describes the way I'm set up.

The 'typical' grid tie only system (which is probably 90+% of all solar installs for home owners) can't do what I'm going to describe....because there is no way to run a 'mini-grid' in the home.....there is no battery back up. They are set up this way do to initial cost.

The exception has been ( and the way the first part of my system was set up) was Outback GT series inverters. These inverters will switch between grid tie and off grid when they sense no grid power. The grid tie contacts open on 'grid down', and another set of contact close to divert power flow to where you want...normally a transfer switch to run off grid circuits. But you have to have charge controllers and batteries to run in either mode, so very few folks set these up due to initial cost being far more than a "plug 'n play" grid tie setup.
Each of those little silver boxes produces 240v AC power to feed the grid (Enphase micro inverters)....mount panel on top, plug panel in, they 'play'.


Versus a WHOLE bunch of other stuff to produce the same dang thing......

And 3,000lbs of big honking battery:


Right now, I have 17kw of panels with 6kw of them permanently off grid connected to 3 Outback charge controllers, 2 - 2500watt GTFX inverters (setup master/slave to produce true 240v poly phase) and a 1200kwhr battery bank. The other 11kw is grid tie only, split as 5kw thru micro inverters and 6kw on a Sunny boy central inverter. Kinda of a mixed bag setup because I've added to it in 4 different phases over the years.

Grid tie production only works when it 'senses' stable grid power....to comply with UL 1741 standards that prevent production and back feeding the power line during a grid down period. No grid, they shut down. They are wired directly TO a meter that figures my production for billing purposes, then feeds back to the incoming power line and onto the grid. IF I use that power, it flows back thru my main meter and I'm billed for it......just a short loop from where it was produced. IF we're not using that much power, it then flows back to the grid and somebody down the line gets it.....which is typical on a sunny, high production day.

Meter on right (small mount) reads production and ties back directly to the grid. Meter on left (in large box) reads use for which we're billed, minus production credit.


My off grid portion runs to a transfer switch, then to a 100amp subpanel that holds the circuits I consider critical (lights/refrigeration/etc) and we run those circuits during the day when plenty of power is being produced, in off grid mode. I'll flip it back at night to grid tie to prevent unnecessary cycling of the batteries. Basically, 8am on a day it looks like a good production day, I flip us to 'solar'. 4pm, back to grid.

Transfer switch on the right....100amp subpanel in the middle, main 200amp panel on the left.


Now let's say the grid went down and wasn't looking like it was coming back anytime soon. I'm sitting here with 11kw of panels/inverters doing nothing. I would re-wire those grid tie panels to tie directly to my off grid system...now they 'sense' a grid, since the off grid portion produces 24/7 (either from sun on the panels or from the battery back up), and that extra 11kw would feed my system during sunny hours just like it feeds the power grid now. The trick would be USING all that extra production...we would have to shift power use....say washing clothes, or such things, to around a 4 hour window (10am-2pm) on sunny days to take full advantage of the extra production. It would also help the battery bank even on marginal solar days, when the 6kw really doesn't have enough to carry the load PLUS charge the battery.....if I just picked up a few extra kw out of the 11, it would help.

Hope that answers your question.

TODAY, if I were setting up a system.....and I may switch to this setup, I'd go with a SolArk inverter, probably one of their 12kw units. Home • Sol-Ark Solar

Relatively new player to the solar market, they are 'next generation' in capability.....combining a whole bunch of features in one unit....grid tie/off grid/high voltage, big string charge controllers(that ALONE is a big dadgum deal)/EMP hardening/built in auto transfer switch/etc. Instead of the clunky manual switching I now do, this unit (IF my discussions with their engineers is correct) can be programmed to do the same thing based either on time of day or battery voltage.....switch between on grid and off grid. In term of features and capability, this unit blows away ANY other solar inverter currently on the market. Always in the past, you've basically been forced to choose one path...on grid or off grid from the get-go. (Unless you went with the Outback GT series stuff) With this equipment, you have the option of both or either, in the same package unit. Add batteries to have off grid.

Truly next generation.....and what the major players (Outback, SMA, etc) will have to do to play catch up, assuming they want to participate in the grid/off grid market.

 

You'd be wrong....ahaaaahaaa. I gave up on figuring what I have IN mine a long time ago. I can tell you it has been ridiculous in terms of what you could simply buy power for. As I often say to my wife "Hey, I COULD have bought a bass boat, a big truck to pull it and all that crap....instead, I spent it on solar hobby"

My intent was not cost, but the ability to HAVE some ability to flip on power in a grid down situation.

 

Wow TnAndy. That's some set up. We went the other way. We live 3-4 months with no elec or running water in the NC mountains in a one room cabin we built with our hands and primitive camp in FL a LOT. However, living without power is getting harder with age. (Frankly a heated outhouse would be nice now. lol. It's a can do though.). And as more and more of our rights get taken away, (Restricted travel? Gas rationing? Martial law? We took the long way around Atlanta last spring.) we might have to choose one home. Hope not. But hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

I envy you all. My better half is getting less and less excited about ANYTHING other than where we are right now - and I’m not too excited about that if things go south.