Stay off mah lawn - jerk neighbor.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mindgrinder, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

  2. NotSoSneaky

    NotSoSneaky former supporter

    Well either he is one mean bastard OR he was defending his livestock.

    Fools. All dogs will hunt on their own sooner of later. They are carnivors and predators. It's in their DNA.

    Some states actually do let one take care of business, so-to-speak. To a dog owner I'm sure Spot would neeeeeever chase, worry or kill a neighbor's livestock, so why bother to fence the 'lil doggie in ?

    Sure reads like the law is on the shooter's side.
  3. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Three S program is normal in such cases.

    Shoot, Shovel, Shut up.

    Pictures work best and can allow you to recover a proved loss of production.

    I always carry a camera, now days.

    BTW, be sure and remove the collar!
    Mindgrinder, kellory, Dawg23 and 2 others like this.
  4. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    I sympathize with anyone losing their pets. I love dogs. I have eight of them. I also keep them in an enclosed yard.

    Years ago, when I spent a great deal of time shipboard, in close quarters, and someone would lose something to theft; the first question asked would be, "Did you have it locked up?" If the answer was "no," any serious inquiry into the matter was effectively over. The "victim" would generally be told, "Apparently, someone else wanted your property more than you did."

    I see pets the same way. If you love them, protect them. If your dogs, or children for that matter, are roaming the neighborhood at will; I question your desire to keep them safe.

    The livestock owner seems like a jerk in this case, but he is probably legally within his rights. You can't legislate the jerk out of people. If I found a dog in my pasture, with no evidence that he was threatening my livestock, I'd probably just run him out.

    However, I'd be very curious as to how he got into my pasture; because, I feel that the argument works both ways. If your livestock are important to you, you should protect them accordingly. Running three strands of barbed wire may keep your cows in a pasture, but it does little to protect them from predators, of the domesticated, or non-domesticated, variety. I paid substantially more when I put in my fences because my animals ARE important to me. A fence needs to keep in what I want in, and keep out what I want out.

    I don't encourage the neighborhood kids to use my property as a park, and I don't create situations where I would likely have to shoot the neighbors' dogs. Dogs, and kids, will roam unless you establish the limits of their environment. I can't count on the neighbors having the good sense to protect their dogs and kids, so I protect myself. Good fences make good neighbors.
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Yep, There are Leach LAWS for a reason... Pet Owners need to control their Pets, doesn't matter the specie, it is THEIR responsibility, to control their animals, and if they do NOT, it is their negligence, NOT those who need to protect their OWN property, from the Owners animals, who have intruded.....
    Mindgrinder and tulianr like this.
  6. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    I have had more than one visit from LEO about dogs running loose. Understand that I live rural so leash law does not apply but good neighbors does. in any case the SO witnessed my dogs in a 6 foot chain link enclosure, dig out proof.

    Reason for the visits was that a neighbor had a young Bull chewed up to the tune of $800 in vet bills. Being close the neighbor was concerned about the Cow dog and the Chow we used to move stock.

    I suggested he stay home on the next Friday ( I knew the dogs and their owner and the days he was gone.) and see what showed up in his cow pen. Sure'nuff a pack of 3 came to finish the job. He took pictures of the attempts to get to his stock, then followed the dogs home at which time the SO was called. Dog owner paid for the Vet bills and was required to build a fence to contain his animals or get them out of the county. It's a wonder what a ticket from a County Mountie and the ruling of a Rural Judge can do to wake up the city folks come-to-the- country-set in their needs to corral both kids and dogs.

    OTOH, my first perimeter fence was a 4 foot 6"x6" net fence with 2 strands of barbed wire on top and one on the bottom, now improved by 3 on the top and one more at the 12 inch level.

    Do it right the first time and improve as things change.
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I lost a very well trained cat to a pack of wild dogs in California She was in my fenced yard when they dug their way in. She bloodied two of them before she went down, but they used her for a chew toy before I could get my gun locker open and my rifle loaded. I counted 14 holes out of 15 shots in 4 no longer running targets before I was through with them. And of course, the cops showed up. They did not have a big problem with what I did, but with my choice of weapon. They thought a shotgun would have been a better choice due to the possibility of skip. I was shooting from an upper deck toward the ground, and safely backstopped. Never disdain a .22 simiauto and a 4X scope. It will do the job, quickly and efficiently. I still miss that cat, and it has been 20 years more or less.:(
    Mindgrinder likes this.
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The onus is on the owner to keep her dogs under control such that they don't cause a tresspass against land of some other property owner. If some how the dogs were shot because they were roaming free and unchecked...then the owner shouldn't be wringing her hand about the consequences of her failure to care for her dogs, but should 'fess up to her children, her culpability for the outcome that had occcured.
  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    That trio of dogs will be typical of the kind of problem that preppers are likely to be faced with if SHTF. There will most likely be an increase in dog abandonments, and dogs will pack together, just as they do in the wild. Such feral dogs won't be overly fussy what flesh they'll dine on...cattle...or human.
  10. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Been there, once a dog attacked my DW as she checked the mail box. The animal was small but did bring both blood and a scream from my wife. A Boxer we had broke a gate throw latch, proceeded to the mail box and killed the offending dog. Police were called by us and a report filed. We and the Boxer were judged as innocent. The parents of the childrens' dog had to pay for the Dr visit and to this day they feel they were wronged. Their dog ran free daily and was not innoculated for any of the state required shots.

    You just cannot cure stupid.

  11. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Interesting comments...

    My dog is rarely leashed and there is no fence on our land other than thick blackberry bushes. I live on acres on a dead end road and all the neighbors know me and my dog.
    She roams FREE and often tags along with people who don't even live on my road but walk their dogs here thinking it's normal to not pick up you dogs crap along the road side by farms. I'm gonna say right now....if my neighbor shot my dog for tresspassing...
    There would be hell to pay.
    If it attacked his animals....i'd be understanding.
    My dog plays with borded horses at the end of the road that maybe it shouldn't some times...the ole lady who owns the ranch thinks it's cool to get the boarders used to dogs but at least one of her clients disagrees.
    This stuff can get complicated....but at the end of the day...
    If you kill my dog for ANY killed a family member.'
    You gonna shoot my kid if he wanders into the gully behind your property to explore?
    See what happens. Tell me all aboot your "property rights" and my responsibility as a parent.....

    Then watch your back....for the rest of your life.

  12. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    You're does get complicated, but at law (in most jurisdictions), unlike cats, dogs are usually required to be under their owner's control. Children too, are expected to be under the control or supervision of their parents, and are liable to sanctions for property trespass if they enter someone else's property without permission or without some compelling lawful reason. However, humans as a rule, regardless of whether they are a child or an adult may not be shot on sight, sight simply for trespass. The use of force may only be sanctioned if other additional factors come into play.

    I can uderstand your feelings about your dog as being "family", but dogs don't enjoy the same protections at law that humans generally do. Failure to have control of one's dog, may have little to no consequence during the course of a dog's lifetime...until that once, that it does something, such as attack stock, or a human, or wanders where it has no right to be...and then it may experience a world of hurt. Is the dog culpable for doing what dogs do, or is the owner culpable for allowing the dog the latttitude to do as it wishes unchecked? In allowing a dog to roam freely without any control by its owner, the owner is assuming the risk of legal liability for any harm that the dog causes, and the moral liability of any harm that comes to the dog for having failed to ensure adequate control of it.

    As to the man in the case study...there is too little information provided to make a judgement as to whether the degree of force used to protect his property rights (both land and chattel) was proportional or justifiable. The man should not have been placed in the position of having to make a decision as to how to respond to the dog's trespass. In that sense the dog's owner has shown his or herself to be just as much a jerk neighbour as the trigger happy neighbour next door to them.
    tulianr likes this.
  13. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    You seem to have missed my point Grinder. The dogs I killed were Feral, loose wandering dogs, and a danger to all. But it just as easily been a few local mutts out for a stroll.
    Had they been wearing collars (or had I known their owners) I would have hunted down their owners and beat them for their stupidity. That kind of stupidity should hurt real bad.
    If your dog runs loose, and something happens to it, it's your fault. End of story.
    STANGF150, tulianr and oldawg like this.
  14. DarkLight

    DarkLight Live Long and Prosper - On Hiatus

    No, but in the coming apocalypse you will be able to put it down and step over its cooling corpse and thus cut its cancer from the fabric of society. You know, should that ever become necessary.
  15. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Very well said. I'd be outraged if someone killed one of my dogs; but then, as I said, I keep my dogs where they belong. There are pet owners, and some of these people love their pets dearly; and then there are responsible pet owners. Loving an animal, or child, is in one department; protecting them is in another.

    I'd love for my child to be able to wander the highways and byways, fields and pastures, as I did as a child; but I can't do that and feel confident in his safety. (Frankly, I often wonder what in the devil my own parents were thinking.) I want my child to reach maturity without being picked off by a child predator; and I want my dogs to reach the end of their lives peacefully, in their own yard - not sprawled in a neighbor's field with a bullet in them. It's about the decisions we make, and personal responsibility.
  16. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    No doubt it is all about a lack of understandingof other peoples' rights.

    We have a better understanding where I live.

    Not to mention that a dog of less than 40lbs will be Coyote bait, anything larger will be, sooner or later, a threat to calves and colts.

    A 1000 bucks to pay for a damaged animal would build a mighty fine dog pen.

    Having been abused by the thoughtlessness of a dog owner, I once had to take the full string of 30 Anti Rabies shots. The anti rabies shots are no longer a set of 30, one a day for a month, and no longer given in the large muscles of the stomach area, as the child watches each injection on a daily basis. Still it is not something any one has the right to inflict on another person just because they want their doggie to run free.

    chelloveck and tulianr like this.
  17. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    They were probably thinking "We're not going to force our child to live in FEAR of what
    "might" happen if he wanders the highways, fields and FREE careful but explore whatever interests you."
  18. Mindgrinder

    Mindgrinder Karma Pirate Ninja|RIP 12-25-2017

    Ya sure. You live in fear of puppies...
    I doubt you could beat a chuck steak to tenderness.
  19. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Good luck with that sort of thinking. I hope your utopian cloud of fortune continues to follow you.
    HK_User and Mindgrinder like this.
  20. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    The last guy to try and stiff me playing pool in a bar, might disagree with you. Though I did apologize the the barman for the mess.
    chelloveck likes this.
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