Supplies - Trauma Gear

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by TheJackBull, Aug 26, 2014.


  1. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yes, your local police and fire would definitely have information on training offered locally. If you cannot find this information, try a volunteer fire station and branch out to nearby towns. Courses are usually quite regularly offered in first aid and basic CPR. Also, check your community colleges and see if they have any programs or classes. You may even be able to find a way to get into some other educational topics. Good luck to you!
     
    Yard Dart and Falcon15 like this.
  2. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    NPAs can be misplaced, into inter-cranial spaces, in addition if a person has a Basal skull fracture, this is a primary contraindication of using an NPA. Can you determine if a patient has a Basal skull fracture prior to placement? Most cannot.

    Additionally, improper placement can damage nasal passages, which can, in certain circumstances cause hemorrhaging. A rare, but possible complication is migration of the NPA due to imporper sizing, losing the entire airway into an intercranial space, causing further medical issues.

    As far as a chest seal, these are more an issue of knowing what kind of wound to use them on.

    Decompression kits...seriously, must I cover this ground?
     
  3. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Primum non nocere. ("First, do no harm")
     
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I think this is exactly the point some people miss. It's easy to say "do no harm" as a doctor is sworn to abide, but it's another to hold a life in your hands when doing nothing would mean they in fact, die. I think it would be fair to conclude that some training and the necessity to act supersedes any claims of the righteous who look upon the use of these tools to be only wielded by experts in the field of medicine. To reiterate this important point --with basic training and the proper tools, in an emergency, the right medical kit can save lives. Doing nothing when nobody else can help on a subject who is dying and in the matter of minutes will be dead if nothing is done would be a crime in itself.

    In standard, everyday yuppie life, yeah...don't risk it. In a SHTF scenario or in a catastrophe where no help is coming, all bets are off. To each his own, good luck!
     
    Airtime and Yard Dart like this.
  5. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    You missed my point. You are looking at this from two different points of view.
    As I read it, (,my opinion) you believe some action is better than no action. ,(view point)
    Falcon sees it from the wrong action is worse than no action (view point)
    Both are valid depending on the skill level of the responder.
    For that matter, doing CPR wrong, could stop a struggling heart, instead of help.
    Water is life, but too much will kill you.
    Tools are good, supplies are good, but knowledge trumps all.
    a tracheotomy, could be done with a ball point bic pen and a pen knife. Better tools would be good, but knowledge trumpts all tools and supplies.
    Falcon's reticence comes from the knowledge of what could go wrong.
     
    Falcon15 likes this.
  6. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    My crew works at extreme height and there are specific and unbreakable rules about how one must attach themselves to an anchor point. It must be 'rated', it must be painted yellow, each anchor (although rated for 5000 lbs) must only have one person attached to it. Our emergency descent devices are only to be tested and used by one person. and so on.

    We also do a lot of emergency training to include emergency descent, tower evacuation and rescue, etc. We are trained that in an life or death emergency that we are to ignore all of our 'rules' and get down by any means. This includes using any anchor point that looks 'suitable', multi anchorages off the same point, 3 men on a descender etc.

    The reality of my situation is that if there is a fire uptower, we'll die thinking about the engineered ratings and shock load values of rated anchored points. We need to bug out and bug out now so some of the rules and best practices are ignored.

    I guess this is what I meant by my above post. Life or death, I would try to save even if I wasn't fully qualified to perform the operation.
     
    Tully Mars, Airtime, Falcon15 and 3 others like this.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I am not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, Kellory. Some people look for confrontation, others would like to simply make a point.

    I understand your point, and I understand Falcon's point. NOTED. CHECK. FILED AWAY. AFFIRMATIVE. ROGER.

    And MY POINT is, in the event of imminent death unless action be taken, it sure would be nice to have that knowledge, but if all you have is a tool to do the job and a vague idea, then NOBODY has the right to dictate the outcome except those present. Telling people to NOT have an item because they aren't trained avoids the greater issue, not just "what if" somebody could be there who has knowledge to use the item, but "what if" it was necessary to use it yourself and the outcome "might" be bad, but it means absolute certain death if you do nothing. It's actually a simple point, drawn out because somebody else wants to prove THEIR point, too.

    GOT IT.

    Bic pen and MacGyver knowledge trumps a pharyngeal tube and a prayer. GOT IT.
     
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  8. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    All the more reason to be fully trained on all gear you choose to carry. ( and you would not be the first to call me mcgyver, nor the last.)
     
    Brokor likes this.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I didn't call you Macgyver.
     
  10. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I went through CLS, I have to be first aid/cpr certified current due to my current job supervising electricians.... If something happened post shtf.... I will do what I can to save a life....and I pray that I have the tools to do it. If there is someone in my group that is more trained/certified in certain techniques.... I certainly hope I can supply the materials he/she may need to get the life saved.... bottom line. If neither is available.... the injured is dead either way, I would like my best bet to prevent that from happening.

    You may have the ability to raise comm's and get a first responder to the AO.... all skills apply to saving lives... we each have a purpose... even if we are the one just carrying the gear/materials we may not know how to use to the T.
    IMO
     
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  11. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    The best you can do to be proficient in survival, shooting, first aid, food generation/preparation and so many other task.... is what it is when shtf.... after that you run with what you know and what you have. Until then, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
     
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I would suggest that MacGyver-ism might represent the ultimate in survival mindset: Adapt, Improvise, Overcome or die...
     
  13. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    I do indeed concur with both @melbo and @Brokor on the importance of training or having a trained individual.
    Yes, and NOW is the time to get that training. Now before SHTF. While time and money are both luxuries.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    when the point is to have a quick solution, or an emergency repair, where looks don't matter, and it is only for the short term, i call these tools/parts/solutions "quick and nasties". some of my Q&N's have been running for years. as I have said before "it may not pass code, it may not be pretty, but if TSHTF, it will be guys like me that make things work". MacGyver is a mindset.
     
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  15. TheJackBull

    TheJackBull Monkey+++

    Thank you all... This has been most informative.
    In the end I think I will carry the gear AND pursue further education as well. These skills have become very interesting to me over the past few years. Seems I now have a reason for higher education.

    thank you again and feel free to keep posting
     
    Yard Dart, kellory, melbo and 2 others like this.
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    You've definitely sparked some discussion with your question. Thanks for the post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    DeadHorse.
     
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  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    [​IMG]Here, try mine.;)
     
    stg58 likes this.
  19. I have bought first aid supplies, compression bandages, tourniquets, wound closure strip and the like ..at:

    adventure medical
    dark angel medical
    itsTactical
    amazon.com
     
  20. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    As my mother would say..."When needs must, the devil will ride!" If you need it, but don't have it, and can't get it any other way..make it!

    Improvising medical equipment has often been a necessity where access to 1st world medical supplies is simply not available.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Description
    Chungkai, Thailand. 8 April 1944. Drawings executed by prisoner of war (POW) artists to illustrate improvised medical instruments and aids used in the POW camps in Thailand. Illustrated are skin grafting needles. (Artist - P. Meninsky)
    101047 | Australian War Memorial

    [​IMG]
    http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/actvssurgconvol2/chapter2figure24.htm.jpg
     
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