Suppressors and Full Auto in Michigan

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Clyde, Mar 5, 2006.


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  1. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Big Changes in Michigan since December 27th, 2005. Needless to say, it hasn't really made the news and few even know about it:

    Ag opinion #7183 that just passed for machine guns, also by definition applies to suppressors. To clarify the issue further, the Ag's office is submitting the official notification in ~4 weeks, according to our communication with the Ag's office (machine guns just cleared 2 weeks ago, and we are actively transferring). Since our suppressor paper work takes 4-6 weeks to get the suppressors to us, we have been bringing them in so they are all ready to go once the paperwork is ready for approval. All Suppressors still require a $200 federal tax, this is actually what "qualifies" as the license (see Ag opinion 7183). We just got our first batch of suppressors in from Gem-Tech, they are beautiful. We also handle the threaded barrels required for the suppressors.

    I will post information as I am in the process of getting the ball rolling on acquiring some quiet toys before they change they law again.
     
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I think that was a spoof email Clyde.... MI doesn't even allow .22 Cal pellet guns, surely they won't allow Bullet Hoses
    [LMAO] b:: [raspberry] [applaud] [bow] :lol:
     
  3. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    yeah...probably a spoof. I think I will place a spoofy order soon.
     
  4. B540glenn

    B540glenn Should Be Working Founding Member

    The part about the full auto (machine guns) is correct. Ag Cox reversed Ag Kelley's opinion to allow citizens to possess newer full auto firearms in accordance with federal rules. It does not specify silencers/suppressers.

    The opinion can be found here.
     
  5. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Apparently, there is an additional opinion coming from Cox's office specifically relating to suppressors and it is expected by the end of March. Thanks for posting the opinion link.

    The paragraph I posted came from a Class III dealer in Michigan who I am will most likely go through once everything is on the up and up.

    Clyde
     
  6. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    [raspberry] [raspberry]
    So you have to wait for clarification before you can start your long wait huh?
    [raspberry] [raspberry]
     
  7. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    [devilfu] [soap] [peep] [plz]
     
  8. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    OK, I have been digging a little tonight to see what you still can't buy[banghead]

    <big>Subguns.com NFA Firearms Discussion Board</big>
    <big><big>Nope...the latest is this...</big></big>
    Posted By: <big>Bust Off</big> <BustOff@comcast.net>
    Date: 1/28/07 20:59

    In Response To: Suppressors in Michigan yet??? (green)
    AG Mike Cox has said his attorney general's opinion review board has 2 competing opinion versions and he is giving them the opportunity to resolve their differences prior to his having to excercise any intervention to release an opinion. This is the latest info I have based on our attending his Inaugural party on the 5th of January and members of our Michigan group asking him what's up.


    This request has been in to his office since last February and no more AG opinions have been issued on anything since June of last year.

    So no, you still can't have what I am researching tonight... Gonna pick up a 45, 9mm and 308 can with the proceeds from the extra 50 sale....

    Maybe you should just buy an UZI while you are waiting? Or a '16?
    :rolleyes:
     
  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Wish we could have cans here in MO, I bet my neighbors do to when I find a coon in the trash or chickenyard in the midle of the night. Thats realy the main reason I want one, just to be curtious to the neighbors when I have to shoot pests/predators/vermin in the middle of hte night.
     
  10. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I still watch this for ya......[own2]

    How's your hearing????????? ANY LEFT???

    THIS BETTER FOR YA CLYDE?

    http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=39&t=267843


     
  11. blackjackhp

    blackjackhp Monkey++

    what is the status today on silencer's in Michigan. where would one look to find the information.thanks
     
  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    You have the RIGHT to own anything you want. As long as you do not infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of another -no government has any standing to force you to do otherwise.

    However. In Amerikkka, things change. We have accepted codes in place of LAW, and we willingly exchange our RIGHTS for the PRIVILEGE to operate. We, from the moment of BIRTH, are immediately categorized as chattel property of the corporations of government. Your 'person' is forgotten and the individual in CAPS is created to serve the corporations and pay off the debt owed to criminal banking cartels. You own NOTHING. All property is owned by the STATE and its use is merely limited to be rented to you. You operate by licensing authority, as all criminals must. You hold CERTIFICATES of property, but never the TITLE itself. You pay tax which is unconstitutional, and to private corporations, believing that you are paying in to your government for retirement or social programs. We exist by mandate alone, and are entirely enslaved by "voluntary compliance" under the Uniform Commercial Code, United States Code, the Federal Reserve Code, and Internal Revenue Code. There is no longer a COMMON LAW or constitution; we operate under Admiralty - and Martial Law Doctrine.

    Sources for the mundane:

    -Senate Report 93-549 of 1973
    -Trading With The Enemy Act of 1917
    -Pres. Proclamations (FDR) of March 6, 1933 through March 9, 1933 (#2038, 2039, 2040)
    -USCA Title 12, Section 95(b)

    Many conservative movements will swear vehemently that the constitution is not in fact on "hold status", but as Title 12, Section 95(a) of the USCA clearly illustrates, during time of war...it in fact...is effectively canceled. But, is it legitimate? Well, it depends on how you choose to look at it. Congress has granted the President (all of them from now until their acts have been rescinded) supreme authority to do what he wills any time he chooses. The courts do not operate under common law, but rather a codified system of martial law doctrine. The People themselves seem to accept this new system of government (well, since 1938 if you can call this 'new'), and nobody has yet challenged the findings of the Senate Report listed above in 1973, nor has it been even reviewed or completed. The People need to fight to change this. They need to start locally and spread like a wildfire across the nation. They need to hold their public servants accountable. We need to eliminate the privately owned FED, IRS, and remove these unconstitutional barriers from our society. We need to once again operate under common law and never again accept the Admiralty Code as law. We need to remove corporations and their sovereign status, replacing them once again with licensed charters and eliminating their power to escape public justice for crimes committed against humanity.

    *but technically...you cannot own a silencer in Michigan unless you want the BATF in your living room.*

    How is THAT for an answer?
     
    dragonfly and beast like this.
  13. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    What you going to procure first?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    After owning a few here in PA, I can attest to the fact that the most used suppressor in my inventory is the .22lr suppressor. It is the most fun, lightest, and easiest to use (as in no special reloading efforts to get subsonic bullet flight, etc). There are reputable makers from every corner of this country, and prices for them can be the least expensive out of all other types of suppressors.

    I've used my Tac Innov. TAC65 on a glock 22 in .22lr, 1911 conversion kit (worked really well, and hit exceptionally well, too), Walther P-22 (what I shoot with it the most), Marlin Papoose, AR-15 with a sub cal kit (extensive firing though it), and a Winchester model 69 (when I want to hit the 1/2" rod holding the 2" steel swinger at 50 yards). I've never had a chance to shoot a Ruger 10/22 with it, but it sure looks like it would be fun, exspecially the charger with a 50rd drum...

    Anyway, other caliber suppressors can get time and money consuming. My Gemtech HVT .30 suppressor handles double duty- 308 rifles and my AR-15. It works well, but if you want real quiet, you have to handload for it. Speed is easy to regulate, but stability isn't. I can shoot handloaded subsonic bullets all day, but they usually end up tumbling. I'm still working on a reliable recipie.

    9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP suppressors come with their own problems when used on pistols. Besides having to have an extended, threaded barrel, you alos have to have a Nelson device or recoil enhancing module so that cam-action style pistols can operate reliably. This adds cost!

    Sorry for the novel- I just wanted to say that a .22 can should be the first can you get- it will be used the most, and usually used to enlighten others (new shooters) to the uses and characteristics of firearms, and therefore bring the most enjoyment out of shooting.
     
    Cruisin Sloth and CraftyMofo like this.
  16. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Lost in the woods

  17. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    I've never really thought about these much, since they weren't allowed. Now i want one.

    Thanks for the previous post about the heaviest use being for the .22lr. I could see using that, or maybe one for a .223.

    I reload for the .223, so this could provide a lot of entertainment.

    Im looking for brands/recommendations, etc.
     
  18. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

     
  19. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    Thanks for your time, GB.

    So would a good start be going for a .22 rimfire can for the P22 and maybe 10/22? I'm assuming that also means 2 new barrels?

    Seems like starting here would give me a bit of an idea of what they can do, and whether or not I'd like to continue into centerfire. Sound like a plan? Any suggestions on brands, or what to look for?

    Thanks again!
     
  20. gunbunny

    gunbunny Never Trust A Bunny

    The nice thing about a lot of the new .22's on the market is that they are almost suppressor ready. The Walther P-22 only needs a $30 adapter that takes the place of the barrel retaining screw. I believe the Sig Mosquito is the same way. The Marvell and now the Sig .22lr conversion for the 1911 can be ordered with a lengthened, threaded barrel. Tactical Solutions makes replacement barrels and uppers for several different .22lr pistols. A new threaded barrel for a 10/22 can be bought from several companies, Tactical Solutions is one of them. Of course, if you know a competant gunsmith, he can thread your barrels for you.

    Most .22lr suppressors use 1/2"x28 tpi threads. If you happen to already own an AR-15, most barrels are already threaded 1/2"x28 for the flash suppressor. You can remove them the flash hider, screw on your suppressor, and swap in a Ceiner .22lr conversion. I hate to sound like a certain wheelbarrow toting someone, but this combo is really fun, especially with Black Dog Machine magazines.

    With rifles, ammo choice will have to be kept to standard velocity to subsonic. The longer barrels will have a tendancy to make the ammo that you were using in your pistol fly faster and go trans-sonic or supersonic. This will be almost as loud as if you weren't using a suppressor, as the sonic crack happens as the bullet flies through the air on it's way to the target. The suppressor can only suppress what happens in the barrel and within itself.

    Another thing you will notice right away is that the first round that you shoot through the suppressor for the day, or if you take too long to swap magazines and shoot again, you will get a first round pop. FRP is the suppressor's inneffeciancy with the oxygen in our atmosphere. When you fire through the suppressor, it will fill with CO2 and CO, and subsequent rounds will be quite a bit more quiet.

    You can mitigate FRP by spraying some WD-40 in the suppressor before you shoot through it. It will smoke alot, though. Some people use alcohol based gels, like the type that are used for expectant mother's ultrasonic checkups. I guess you can buy it over the net, I never bothered.

    When shooting a string of shots, the suppressor will get hot. Basically it is just a muffler, like the one on your car or truck. You shoot through it a lot, it will get hot enough to burn you. I don't put it away unit it cools off enough to touch it. Some people get Nomex covers made for them, which is a nice solution, but again, I never bothered; I use the money I save to get more .22lr!

    You will notice that the amount that you shoot increases. It's like shooting a BB gun, but with the hitting power of a .22! It smooths out what little recoil there is in a .22 to even less. Except for riddling the target, you don't think that you are accomplishing much, and shoot some more! You will not have enough magazines, no matter how many you buy. You only stop shooting when you run out of available ammunition.

    It is truly a shame that we have to jump through the hoops like we do to get them; everybody should be able to get suppressors- it makes for good neighbors. I was shooting steel plates once and the neighbors thought I was plying horseshoes, as they could only hear the ting of the bullets striking the steel. Even better- when shooting 100 yards with a bolt action, all you hear is the round going off with a tick, see the steel plate swing from being hit, then hear the ting about a second later... Very fun.

    As for recommendations, what kind of budget do you have in mind? On the cheaper end (but still quite effective) is Tactical Innovations TAC-65. This was my first suppressor, and the one I usually shoot the most. If cost isn't as much of an issue, you can go with any of several well known makers such as Gemtec, AAC, SilencerCo, and SWC. Thompson Machine makes several different purpose-built suppressors to make up for the standard 1" dia x 6" long, modified K baffle type design that everybody seems to be making nowadays. Don't get me wrong, this design is so proliferent because it does work very well, but it has it's drawbacks in the full auto market or ultra-compact pistol markets.

    At some point, I'll be in the market for another .22 suppressor. I think I'll be leaning towards a Thompson Machine Wasp suppressor because of it's compact size and that the tube is made from stainless steel instead of aluminum. RIMFIRE SUPPRESSORS « Thompson Machine
     
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