Survival 101.2

Discussion in 'Back to Basics' started by Mortis, Jun 2, 2007.


  1. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    The title of this diatribe might seem odd but consider that I used Survival 101 and Survival 101.1 on another board, which in turn was transferred over to this board, so the title almost makes sense.

    Frank Herbert wrote some of the most prophetic words ever heard for the Survivalists. “Fear is the mind killer.” Talk to anyone who has experience in Emergency situations and they will tell you that a person wrapped in the mantle of fear cannot be reasoned with. As with a drowning man will drown his rescuer due too fear.

    How many reading this can reach out and pick up a handgun, rifle, shotgun, or even a large bladed weapon from their chair? I know, I’ve heard all the reasons in the world for such a thing. I’m being careful. I’m just being cautious. And many more. Hold that thought.

    I’ve rummaged through the board, reading and rereading many of the threads and I doubt anyone could honestly say the majority of folks here do not have a solid grasp of the mechanical aspects of survival. I can only hope to add a twist here and there that someone might have missed. Although I seriously doubt it.

    But I was invited here not so much for my mechanical knowledge, but for the offbeat way I look at the world. Oh……sorry ghrit, you actually didn’t invite me here. The invitation goes back many years. I was just too busy with other projects to pay much attention to another one.

    Back to the original concept of this thread.

    Debate this thought amongst yourselves all you desire, but from my standpoint, many here confuse the mechanical readiness of survival with the mental readiness. Having a two (2) years supply of groceries, along with two (2) dozen rifles, shotguns and pistols, and three (3) bazillion rounds of ammo for each only means you packed for the trip.

    A positive mental attitude is not something myself or anyone else can impart with such a medium of communication. Mostly because no two (2) people are the same. Each have their own fears which impede the process.

    But I can say this without guilt. If You Cannot Act On a Problem, Then Why Waste Effort And Energy Worrying About It? Ok.. Let me be a tad more specific here. If a situation is outside of your control, then why waste effort on it? Certainly, at times, you can make plans to ease it’s effect on you, but save the ulcers for things that are inside your control, yet are giving you a migraine.

    I know, I might be talking in circles again, but that’s ok…….I’m not done with this thread yet.

    So, let’s take an internal test. Each person can play along as they wish.
    Take all those weapons and lock them up. Put them out of reach, even for an evening. If you can set in your easy chair for one evening without being able to reach out and destroy those mythical black dressed invaders sliding down ropes from those evil black helicopters, and feel defenseless, then you do not have a proper survival mental attitude yet.

    Lie to me, lie to the board, but NEVER lie to yourself.

    FYI……..I locked up my guns and knives many years ago.
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The honor of the invitation belongs to Quigs. Glad you are here to provoke thought.
     
  3. BigUglyOne

    BigUglyOne Monkey+++ Founding Member

    And what "other board" might that be ?

    Welcome, BTW !!!
     
  4. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    http://www.handloadersbench.com/

    Which I have not pasted this thread to that board at this time.
     
  5. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Interesting thread, Mortis. I have had my hand forced lately in a most common manner; a break-in. I have an elaborate monitored security system that my wife was very prone not to use, feeling like she was safe in her home, especially with all the guns about the place. I think the break-in was a good thing it it's own fashion because she has now become much more security conscious.
    We have motion sensors at all the approaches that activate a light inside the house; if the intruder approaches closer, a motion detector turns on the outside flood-lights. We have three dogs that are no longer allowed to sleep in our bedroom. Bug just planted twelve more rose bushes beneath key windows. Inside are motion detectors, IR motion detect cameras, glass-break sensors, and door alarms. I replaced the master-bath door with a steel fire-door and deadbolt; there is a cell-phone, a hand-gun, flashlight, shot-gun, and CS grenade inside the wall cabinet there, not to mention the facilities , just in case the crap gets scared out of you. Oh, I almost forgot the cattle-prod[winkthumb]
    As much as I enjoy displaying my firearms collection, I have relegated it to the gun safes and now all my gun cabinets contain replicas and my bows and swords. I also found it quite amusing to rig a distress flare (300 meter) to one of the motion sensors so now even the neighbors can tell if someone enters my shop building. I remember years ago, having trouble with a thief helping himself to my firewood; an auger along with a few 12 ga. shotgun shells halted that problem. No-one ever admitted stealing the wood but the folks that I suspected had a little house fire one evening and I never had my wood stolen again.
     
  6. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    The basic idea of the exercise was too get the reader to look internally and externally at defense.

    Now I had a reader PM me and comment that any comparison I could make to anyone else was not fair based on my background and training. I will answer that now in saying that life isn't fair, because if it was I would have been born rich instead of so damn good looking. [LMAO]

    Reality strikes a blow here in that if the reader feels they are defenseless unless they have a firearm, an edged weapon or even a crossbow at arms reach at all times, then they do not have a solid mental attitude for survival.

    Robert Heinlein wrote in his book, Starship Troopers; "There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men." A line left out of the movie.

    Look about yourself as you read this mess and if you cannot find at least 3 items that can be used as a weapon, then we must conclude that there is room for improvement. Either that or you are one real neatness freak.

    Just to be fair here, I do not live in a gated community. I live in a house my Father built in 1961, on a piece of property that has been in my Mother's family since the 1890's. I live in a small, rural Oklahoma town, where if you hear gunshots at night, it is probably because the neighbor just shot a opossum off his trashcan.

    I am not surrounded by all kinds of electronic protection. Hell, I don't even know where the keys to the house are. I refuse to be a prisoner in my own home.

    I rarely and I do mean rarely carry anymore, yet I go where I please, when I please. Yet, I refuse to be a victim.

    This is not fair of me, but I have always said that if you feel insecure in the locale you reside, then move. But I know that monetary situations often dictate location.

    BTW...Seacowboys.....I hope you have plans for moving if that CS can gets used. Or at least totally gut out the house and remodel. That stuff is near impossible to get out of anything fiberous or porus. That is if it does not cause a major house fire.

    O-Chlorobenzylidene Malonoitrile (CS)
    CS is a white crystalline solid; burnt to create a colorless gas with
    acrid pepperlike smell.
    Boiling Point: 310*C to 315*C

    Once it cools, it reforms into a micro-grained crystalline solid.
     
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I can probably use more improvised weapons than Travainian's Character in Shibumi and have at one time or another but I still remember the sage advice about bringing a knife to a gunfight. It is nice that you live in a community where you feel safe, I did too until last week. The simple fact remains that your choice to not carry is just your choice as is my choice to carry rather than relying on the goodness of my fellow man or whatever improvised weapon I can lay my hands on. I think you are making a lot of base assumptions about some folks that you know nothing about. I also think that some of your assumptions totally miss the mark; one being that because someone would come to rely on a weapon of choice rather than improvision makes them any less willing to use it to defend themselves or even less able to defend themselves. As for the CS grenade, hehe...I remember one thanksgiving at my grandmothers way back when,,,my cousins and I thought it would be a great idea to light one off in the house...boy did that cause a reaction. Didn't start a fire but did melt some linoleum and totally screwed thanksgiving.
    Training is a great thing and I have had more than my share of it, but I'll still say that a person that is armed with a revolver and willing to shoot is more of a threat than someone that is armed with a rolled up newspaper and ready to poke.
     
  8. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I think one important thing about the survival mentality that's been overlooked there, Mortis, is that you learn to effectively use the best tools available to you. Why would you handicap yourself by "locking away" the firearms? I'm more capable than most when it comes to defending myself without them, but why would I limit myself to that when I don't have to? I think that would be irresponsible regarding the safety of my family. You can "Refuse to be a victim" all you want, but if the bad guy your faced with is competant and willing with his 45, a victim is exactly what you are instead of a well prepared individual with a mindset for survival.

    Sorry, I still find your "thought provoking" questions are just text-bloated ramblings from an overconfident, prophet wannabe.

    [woot]
     
  9. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    As I was saying in the original insert of this thread..... I am not finished here yet.

    And Blackjack is so insistent on hitching me to that mythical wheelbarrel he said what I was leading up too, then added a twist to the variables to suit his own puspose. Hey...what ever makes ya feel warm and fuzzy.

    No one can guarantee that he will be armed to the teeth in a critical situation. So, the knowledgeable Survivalist has to be aware of what can be used to defend himself in such situations.

    There are hundreds of courses taught daily across this country directed at unarmed defense. The are mostly designed for the women who might be assualted in a parking lot or other locations. Many martial arts schools teach special courses for the elderly or infirm.

    Now about me on or near hand is 6 screwdrivers which can create amazing amount of trauma, especially driven into an eye socket, into the throat or the targets chest, slightly to their left of centerline. Oh... don't forget to wiggle them about some just for aggravation sake.

    A pair of scissors can do alot of damage. There is a hammer under the desk. Works real well. And there is my ever present MagLight. Sure beats a rolled up newspaper, altho I do know a couple individuals that could flay ya unmercifully. But you have to watch out for one of those dudes, he is likely to have put an iron bar in the paper as he rolled it.

    But the strongest weapon in a survivalist arsenal is his mind. He has to be flexible enough to survive without his trusty sidearm.

    Blackjack, I have very few enemies left above ground. And even if I was standing in my BVD's in the middle of an empty WalMart parking lot, they would not come at me head on. If they can develop the courage, they will at best come at me from ambush, and not even my trusty Remington-Rand 1911 will be able to help me. So........why worry about it?

    Life's too short to worry about the small shit...

    <quote>Sorry, I still find your "thought provoking" questions are just text-bloated ramblings from an overconfident, prophet wannabe.<unquote>[LMAO]

    I've been called many things in my time.... but never a prophet. Thanks Blackjack.... ya gave my wife one hell of a laugh!!
     
  10. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Anytime Mortis ;)

    </unquote></quote>
     
  11. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Unless I misread the intent, your aim was to inform the reader to be prepared to use anything at his or her disposal when the time warrants. You also indicated that the "mental state" is the most important survival weapon. On these two points I agree wholeheartedly, however I do not lock up all of my firearms at night. I have several strategically placed in the event of an emergency. I sleep just fine too, although I will say that when I do not have a firearm close by for what ever reason, I do feel naked. Kind of like going to work and forgetting you left your wedding ring, or watch on the dresser. Like the survival mindset, your screw driver and mag light it is a tool, one that I would rather have close at hand.

    Thanks for the idea on the steel fire door Sea, I was just discussing that matter with my wife. We liked the idea so well we are thinking about installing one with a dead bolt in our master closet.

    Thanks for the discussion Mortis and Sea, we are reminded of and learn new things every day.
     
  12. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I think I see the point and would tend to agree with it if Im correct,that more important than what tools/weapons you have is knowing how to acomplish your goal without them.

    It would be much the same as the more basic things like say electricity. Not many of us are going to choose to live without electricity especialy on a full time basis but we try to be sure we are prepaired to do all the things we normaly rely on electricity for without it if we need to. Much the same with defence, if would be foolish to not be as prepared as you can to be able to protect yourself with improvised weapons or unarmed defense for times when for any reason you dont have access to a firearm. I normaly ALWAYS carry but at present Im working in a ship yard where its posted for no firearms and you and your vehicle are subject to search on the premisis, so carrying isnt an option. I still know that if attacked, at least at contact range (and in present conditions this covers nearly all likely senarios like robbery, assault etc.) then I could adequately defend myself.

    To rely on your tools and especialy on just one specific tool will limit you to much to be advisable.
     
  13. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    Correct Monkeyman. My Methods are a tad convoluted at times, but to arrive at a specific answer on your own is worth much more then a person explaining it in writing. Especially since they probably will not be around when you need to think on your own.
     
  14. ripsnort

    ripsnort Monkey+++

    Mortis, could you change one word in your signature line?:

    "Arguing with Mortis is like wrestling with a Pig. Everyone gets dirty, but the Pig loves it."
     
  15. Mortis

    Mortis Snake Eater

    Sorry Rip.... but although they are interchangeable, I prefer the original as I heard it so many years ago.
     
  16. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    The almighty TV [mainstream] is a big fear machine . It also creates anger in good hearted people so I don't watch it much, too many true alternatives, like this forum and talk radio. All we have to fear is fear itself. If we keep our selves busy getting more prepared, we don't have time for the tube.
     
  17. duanet

    duanet Monkey+++

    Read a good comment the other day. It basically said. Don't prepare to survive the bad times, prepare so that you don't even notice them. I find it much easier to use my kerosine lamp, or battery powered floursent light and set next to the wood stove when the power is out for a few hours and then start the generator to pump the water and get the freezer cold again and know that it would be 6 weeks before I had to even try to get fuel or food and a year before I would be hurting. Working on a greenhouse and hand pump for the well this week. Haven't had time to do much here as I cut and split 8 cord of wood for the winter after next. Next winters wood is a year old now and under cover. I am 69 and still working and still reloading etc. I just find it much more comfortable to raise a garden, cut wood, fix things and have a lot of fun shooting. Would it be nice if TSHTF and could it be helpful, yes, but damn if I don't like fresh greens out of the garden or sitting next to a warm woodstove and reading this forom. It is a real challange to try to get the best reload for a rifle, beats heck out of TV, and it could be real useful. Haven't tried it yet but was reading that the standard .308 round, powder, and primers can be used in 30-06, 308, 303, and are supposed to be ok in the Russian .311 varients. Need different dies, but would be nice to have a couple thousand potential rounds of "generic" throws something out of the barrel ammo. Reloading people might know more about that. What 9mm rounds use the same dia bullet or close enoughto work? So when did survival have to be chore or a drain. To me it is just another very interesting hobby with a lot of physical and psichological benefits even in the good times and could be a lifesaver if things went belly up. Was raised on a farm and during WW 11, the only real problem we had was getting 22 shells. We raised our own food and fuel and had all the work and entertainment we wanted. Memo, stock more 222 ammo to use and trade.
     
  18. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++


    Great way to look at it.
     
  19. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Mortis still around?
    I like reading your stuff.
     
  20. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    What do you know I finnaly found something that I could agree with you on Mortis. b::Survival is a frame of mind/knowledge, not martial items. Firearms can jam, be stolden, or break. Yes things can make survival more comfortable but humans survived many thounsands of years whith what they could readily make and carry on their backs.

    OGM
     
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