Survival & Ideological Influences

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by Yard Dart, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I thought I would start a new thread, to not distort another ongoing thread from its current line... wow a novel idea, instead of causing thread drift as we are prone to do. I have lifted this quote and wish to carry on the conversation on its own merits without ruining another political thread and it's context:

    New ISIS Video: ‘We Will Raise Black Flag Over White House’

    I think your faith in God, to watch over you, is paramount to any individual during trying times, let alone your day to day path to strive to "be" what Jesus taught. His strength given to you.... to endure, to give you guidance, compassion and the wisdom to act where needed, is all faith based in whatever your background is within religious confines. Ideology is a personal matter based on how you grew up, family religious influence and so on... But we must remember that any religion can have their ideology twisted to the extreme... such as the current Muslim extremist have done in the Middle East. The Muslim religion is just the current faith to be used in this manner to persecute "other belief systems"... which many other religions have done over the course of history in various ways. I have served and lived around many honorable Muslims.... but the extremist of this faith are not much different than the extremist of the past in other religions trying to stamp down other peoples beliefs, contrary to their own.

    But in the context of survival discussions, ones belief in God is a personal matter that does not have to be dragged into every discussion. Nor does the ideology of one group need to be pointed at, as the culprit of all our ills, because the few do not define the whole. In fact, it is a bit tired to continually watch threads dissolve into a fight over religion, atheism or other. I am a Christian, I have a relationship with God, that is mine alone to grow within, learn and follow. I need not beat everyone over the head trying to convince them that they should believe as I do. That is your right to freedom of religion.... whatever that may mean to you... period.

    I think just leaving your personal religious convictions out of the conversation, will suffice to carry the conversation forward about survival in these trying times. You can wrap religion around oneself and use it as a shield/weapon... or whatever, if that keeps you warm at night.... but there is much room to leave it off the table as a discussion about how we move forward as individuals or a society in a survival context.

    Now under the context of rebuilding a society, there is absolutely a context, for conversation on how God and his commandments pertain to re-constitution of community/state/nation... ect with societal values, rules/laws, charity to those in true need and so on...

    Just my opinion... as I know where I stand in my faith, and I respect your right to know your own position with or without God's influence, without prying and trying to force my beliefs upon you. We have enough of that today... sometimes we need to remember to live and let live... as free men, that is our choice.

    And to those that twist their ideology with the intent to stamp down my right and those of my family, freinds and live and believe as we choose to in our own way.... doom on you.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I believe in the future of farming with a faith born of…ooops, wrong creed. I always liked the line in Desiderata about making your peace with God, whatever you conceived it to be.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
    Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
    If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
    for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

    Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
    Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
    Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
    But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
    and everywhere life is full of heroism.

    Be yourself.
    Especially, do not feign affection.
    Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

    Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
    Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
    Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

    You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
    you have a right to be here.
    And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

    Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
    and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
    With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy
  3. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Am reminded of the example Jesus set for us: He never advocated forcing Himself or His Father on anyone. In His ministry He was often rejected and in the end brutally killed for His teachings--by religious leaders. His disciples "stepped up to the plate" as instructed and taught. They never forced anyone to follow or believe their words. They simply went about the Mediterenian world preaching and teaching what they had witnessed and been taught. Many believed and many did not. Those who did not were not scorned, threatened, or attacked as they often were--again often by religious zealots. There is a great difference between religion and Christianity. Jesus taught love, compassion, gentleness, etc, and said that against these traits there is no defense or offense. The enemies of Jesus's teachings today are intent on stamping out not only those who believe in the "Way" but any who do not swear allegiance to their god. This is done by the sword if necessary. There is a great difference between the two.
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Christianity is just as filled with murder and mayhem and has as bloody and vindictive a history as any other religion, despite the teachings of Christ. Today, just as in the Puritanical New England days, just as in the Crusades, just as in the Inquisition, the Christian Right is it's own worst enemy. If the teachings of Christ had been just benevolent and peaceful and loving, there would not be such a movement against them. We/they are our own worst enemies.
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    An ideology, is essentially an idea often to be expressed in philosophical terms. Therefore, I present to you an idea, which is the importance of recognizing a common enemy among us.

    We have before us right now, more than one enemy to face and to defeat. I will attempt to list only a few of the notable enemies, but will leave only a brief explanation to keep this presentation simple. We have the corporation, which is an enemy of epic proportions. They were initially kept chained down by charter, and dissolved after the charter had run its course, its assets sold, never to grow strong enough to assert too much influence on our republic. Today, the corporation is endowed with individual protected liberties, can exist in perpetuity, can amass unlimited wealth and influence, and may form cartels to edge out competition.

    Another enemy is the idea of government, and that it works, or is supposed to work. Although the concept of government remains, the actual form of government, being comprised of those voted into office by a constituency --serves two masters. The government is employed first by the corporate establishment, and as a method of maintaining appearances, its civilian support base partakes in occasional popularity contests, also known to some as voting. Naturally, most of the politicians are bought and paid for by the corporations, and they do not serve the people exclusively, for if they do, severe consequences may come to light, and assassinations are not exactly uncommon. Those are only two enemies we face. Two enemies out of so many...

    We are faced with the enemy of time, with the incremental march toward a police state, most people live their lives in complete bliss, totally unaware of the iron curtain being drawn around them. Just like the frog in the pot with the heat turned up gradually, it never realizes it's dinner time.

    We are faced with the enemy of fear, which breeds hate and anger. People often fear what they do not understand, and too often they will receive their daily dose of instruction from the magic box and the radio. This is a big one, because it encompasses everything brought on through fear, anger and hate. We, as a nation are divided, and have been herded into classes assigned by gender, creed, religion, political beliefs, ideologies, and more. As long as we continue to fight each other, the giant pink elephant in the room can keep on pooping on our lawn without being held accountable. Also, fear has a way of turning even the most wise man into a complete fool.

    Another enemy of ours is pride. Of course, this one is a classic. However, this goes as far as saying it's more than personal pride, it's nationalistic pride. We first discover the true scope of its dangers from World War II, in Nazi Germany. And wouldn't you know it? --we ended up employing many of their Nazi spies and scientists, as well as propagandists after the war. Folks, study history and learn about the true history of the national flag. We are supposed to be a free republic, not a socialist empire.

    The enemy of indifference comes to the front, more than naught. What better way for the corporate syndicate to gain control of the world than to make people believe they can do nothing to stop them? Their power is mostly smoke and mirrors, and they get away with their crimes simply because good people continue to do nothing about it.

    The police state is a definite enemy. I would say 'police' are the enemy, but that wouldn't be entirely true. There are many decent police, good souls who carry out their jobs honorably, but they work for the corporate establishment nonetheless. We are in a situation where prisons are BIG business, they make more money with more prisoners, and the cycle of abuse will continue until it is stopped. Our citizenry is being criminalized, with more prisoners than ANY nation on the planet, and with a militarized police force nation-wide, cracking down on dissent wherever it presents itself. Any who support the police state are simply misinformed and deluded, because they will only end up contributing to their own enslavement.

    Who can forget the enemy known only as ignorance? While it is true that pride, fear, hate and indifference are all equally dangerous foes, there can be no greater enemy than ignorance. Without knowing, and without experience to claim to have knowledge, we are at the mercy of every storm which comes our way, like a ship adrift at sea without a rudder. However, some good can be said about ignorance, too. It certainly beats being misinformed, which would lead the individual down the wrong path. At least one who is ignorant is starting at ground zero, from a fresh perspective. Some say, "he who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. " Therefore, I feel that ignorance has the highest likelihood to cause the most harm, but also may offer a glimmer of hope amidst the chaos.

    By recognizing these notable common enemies for what they are, the subject may be better prepared for what awaits them on the battlefield we call life.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  6. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    I love this Site as I have said in some of my previous posts! The majority of people here are respectful and informative along with FUNNY, Some of you guys Crack me up and I have spend many a moment laughing out loud at some of your quit witted humor!
    In the Spirit of full disclosure, I would never have joined this forum if it wasn't my True and heartfelt belief that The End Times Prophesied in the Bible from the first prophet to the last, Are being fulfilled right now, from The Tigris and Euphrates Rivers running dry to the One World Gov. trying to come together!! I do believe that a lot of the people have similar reasons for being here as well.
    Just as in the Muslim Faith there are many Factions to the Christian Church, those that believe in the goodwill and benevolence and those that believe in persecution and control!
    If you look at where all the bloodshed came from it was The Catholic Branch of Christianity and if you look at who was killed during those Crusades it was mostly Christians that refused to bow down to the twisted version of Roman Dictatorship, being forced on them by the Mother Church.
    Their still trying to do it today! The Catholics are very much involved in Politics, immediately before the war going on in Israel, the Leader of Hamas and a Leader from Israel were invited to the Vatican to pray with the Pope, obviously that was a bad Idea!!
    Jesus was not interested in Politics at all from what I have read.
    It is unfair to group all Christians into that catagory as much as it is to group all Muslims in the Jihadist movement!
    Today there are religious zealots in every faith, and The Westboro Baptist come to mind in the Christian Community! It is never good to be like that, it does nothing to further their cause. Thankfully they haven't been heard from since the death of their Pastor and goes to show how a good thing can be hi-jacked by one bad man, or a group of bad men.
    However, if one is attacked in a conversation by an intolerant person of no, or, different faith, there are 2 choices, engage or withdraw. This depends totally on the individual being persecuted.
    Personally I love a good debate so sometime I engage and sometimes I withdraw, depending on whether I like the other person or not, mostly with other Christians which I disagree with an obvious distortion in their interpretations of Scriptures which I feel could cause harm to my brothers by being misled.
    If I like them as I do most of the people I encounter here, I try to refrain from getting in to it, Outside of the Religious Forum.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  7. AmericanRedoubt1776

    AmericanRedoubt1776 American Redoubt: Idaho-Montana-Wyoming Site Supporter+

    Very very well said. Eloquent wisdom summary of modern America @Brokor. Couldn't have said it better myself. ++++1. Thank you for writing that.

  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    lol I try. I do know a bit about a wide variety of things, but the legalities and policies as well as the history of how we got here is perhaps my strongest study. We have lots of wonderful, experienced members here at the SM and they each have a value, and I find myself feeling fortunate to belong to such a place. =) You are very kind.
    kellory and AmericanRedoubt1776 like this.
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