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Survival is different

Discussion in 'Turf and Surf Hunting and Fishing' started by Kingfish, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Hi guys and gals. So I got baited and came out to play. It has however got me thinking about things . After watching many videos "again" on harvesting animals with primitive tools I stand by my original view of Primitive weapons being " NOT PRACTICAL" for the average survivalist. I have been in this survivalist world for two decades now. I have been a member on every major survivalism message board slash website on the web. One thing I have seen on every website is someone selling the Idea that going primitive is the best way to go. Buy my DVD, MY BOOK, my videos, e-books etc. Everything from bundle bows to stone heads and more. Lots of young people looking for answers are led to waste precious time purchasing this stuff. While I concede that some people can master these skill sets I also know for a FACT that most can not. The Romantic side of this is alluring and draws people into the mindset that if he or she can do it so can I. So they set out with knife and cordage in hand carve and whittle their way to failure after failure. Once in a great while some person finds that they have a the natural ability to master the task and wala , you get another book/dvd seller. For most of us, we need to focus on what we CAN DO. Trust me folks, if the world goes to hell the woods are going to be full of men and women with guns. For years this will be the case. Deer and other game will be highly pressured and scarce. To be able to harvest in this scenario means you are going to have to be able to shoot farther and more accurate then the average guy out there. Deer will be driven in herds to mass slaughters by men with high powered rifles. Deer drives will be so common that numbers will fall fast. To count on harvest of wild game alone is a fools errand . Grow food animals like chickens, rabbits, pigs, goats etc. Grow a garden, Move near water ways like lakes and rivers. Bottom Line? The romantic notion of walking out into the woods is is a death sentence for 99% of those who attempt it. It is difficult to do it today and will next to impossible to do it post SHTF.

    There is nothing romantic about the end of the world as we know it. It will be brutal, dog eat dog ,nasty cold , wet , stinking horror. Even with modern rifles and other guns the chance of surviving is slim. In my honest opinion the only hope lies in communities like small towns where people band together, trade, co-exist and work together. Will there be a return of the mountain men? Possibly. A few seriously gifted dudes who walk off into timber and thrive but Im not one of them. I am part of the 99% who better start thinking practical survival because Survival is different than today. Today I can fall back to the store for supplies. Today I have a workshop with electric power tools. Today I have a chainsaw. Today I have money. Survival is different. Take all that away and you have what you can do. I can shoot, I can solve problems, I can garden and raise animals, I can fish. I cant do any better then that. Im not going to fool myself into thinking I can. So rather than waste time learning to be a cave man Im going to stack things deep. Ammo, bolts, broad heads, fishing tackle, seeds , clothes, boots , fire wood, fuel, and staples like salt and sugar. If the world returns to men wielding sticks and stones ? I will be long gone and dead. OR I will be the last man alive with a loaded gun.

    So in short , I have the utmost respect for that 7 year old kid who killed a deer with an Atlatl and the men and women who hunt with primitive gear as a Hobby. They are gifted and have skill sets most can only dream of. Survival is different. Survival means doing whatever it takes to win.
    BlueDuck, arleigh, Meat and 18 others like this.
  2. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    That's pretty much sayin' it like it is. If our civilization fails, and everyone has to root hog or die, at least 90% of the people on this planet will flat-out die. Despite their very best or very worst efforts to survive.

    And many survival types are in active denial of the fact that the overall 90% mortality rate will probably include 90% of the survival types, as well as 90% of the sheeple.

    90% of the unprepared and the unlucky will die fast. 90% of the better-prepared and the somewhat-luckier will just die a little slower.

    Death takes no holidays, and a collapsed civilization does not cut for commercials. It'll be an all-day grind, every day, for the rest of every survivor's life. In a long-term survival crisis, every daily minimum has to be met every single day, or you're not surviving. You're declining. And that's just the incomplete process of dying to death.

    Anybody can survive a week without eating, as Survivorman has so often demonstrated. But losing 10 pounds a week is a death sentence in a long-term crisis. That's only 10 weeks to fade-out for a 200-lb person.

    If you define successful survival as living long enough to raise your children to maturity, anybody that lives to forty may ultimately be counted as a survivor.

    But anyone that fails to produce children will not be a survivor: they will be extinct. And whether they got that way after two weeks of attempted survival or fifty years will be utterly moot.

    Human beings are herd animals, and do not thrive alone. They require a certain minimum herd strength to prevent terminal inbreeding, as well as mental decline.

    So, if someone really wants to survive the Big Crash, they should work very hard on stacking resources deep--and even harder on having a viable tribe to join in time of need.
  3. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    I can tell you from experience that I make a 10 pound loss in much less time than a week. one of the reasons I am so "primitive" weapon happy is because of how fast I burn calories. No choice on my end.
    Ganado likes this.
  4. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Thanks for the words. I have already spawned and my son has also so it is all for the grand kids now. My Grandson is 8 years old and is learning to shoot now. He will be taught well and will inherit my arsenal of rifles, shotguns and handguns. My grand daughter is 6 and also learning to shoot and will inherit my wife's guns. Our plan from the get go has been to teach the kids well and like you say stack deep. I think the most important skill set for us is the garden, canning and livestock. Defense is a close second to growing our own food. We live on a small Private lake so a lot of the food as in water birds come to us. They are easily taken with a .22 from shore blinds . We have fish, turtles, frogs, Geese, ducks, swans, cranes, water cress, cat tails and Lilly plants. We planted 27 fruit trees 3 years ago and they are growing. We have wild grapes, strawberries and three large Mulberry trees. We bugged out in 2008 to this little farm on a lake. Im not leaving here for any reason. We do have like minded families here. There are 6 families who plan to ride it out here. Defend it and help each other. 27 people in all now. 21 who can shoot and 13 with military or Militia training. We even have a .50 cal in the group now and a couple hundred rounds for it. Still adding ammo and good rifles. I cant stress enough that staples are the most important food items. Salt, sugar, Cooking oil, and some luxury items like drink mixes for the kids, Rice , beans, and fuel. I have done a ton of research on storing gasoline long term. I used 4 year old gas this fall to run my chainsaws. Worked great. Non alcohol no lead(marine gas) with marine stabil kept underground at a stable temp. The trick is to keep it from fluctuating and under 60 degrees. Propane for the generator for long term once a week power. I stacked .22 rimfire so deep Ill never run out and am now concentrating on defensive ammo for the AR-15 rifles, 30-06 rifles and shotguns. Im adding crossbow bolts a few at a time but they are so expensive that I can only get a few at a time. Im glad I bought .22 when I did. Cant get what I want now. unless I want to pay big bucks. But here is where it get real tough. We raise rabbits and they are not a problem. We raise Chickens and they have to be able to reproduce and that is proving to be a challenge. We just added two little frizzle cochen hens who will actually sit on eggs. They go broody but have yet to hatch any of the eggs. We have two incubators and have hatched some of our own eggs but with no power this option is not sustainable. I MUST solve this problem soon. Otherwise the chickens will die out. I am thinking that several Goats may be the long term answer as they eat most anything . With all of this going on I still dont feel like it is enough. I have this nagging feeling that Im forgetting something every day. I just finished cutting up the second deer. We are going to can the entire next one . Going to cut it all into stew meat size chunks and can it. The practical side of me is telling me to buy 20 cases of Raman noodles tomorrow. Great trade item if nothing else. Add hot water and eat. Add a rabbit,chicken, squirrel or a can of venison and a can of mixed veggies to 4 packs and its a meal for 6. Practical not perfect. simple not complicated. full bellys and enough calories to make it to the next day. My greatest fear and horror dream is my grand kids starving to death or being murdered . It is this fear that hardens my resolve and pushes me every day to complete all the tasks I have piled upon myself. The ground has to be cared for, nurtured and tilled. Animals fed and watered ,bred and butchered. Defenses planned and built. Plans set up and practiced until I cant get them wrong . I thank everyone here for their debates and input, you are a wealth of information not found on many other sites. I pray all of you make it though these trying times. Tomorrow is another day. Ill have one eye on the news and both hands busy building a new pen. My wood is all in saws put away. One deer left to harvest then we hunker down for the winter. I hope we get good ice so we can ice fish this season. For now Im watching the Geese numbers on the lake. About 300 a day average right now and they seem to waiting for ice to form on the lake. Im going to chart then this year and see when the last ones head out south. So far its November 24th and the lake is loaded with ducks and geese. I see this lake as a pantry. It is a self sustaining pantry. Its practical. Like me.
  5. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    Best wishes. Wish I lived close enough to bother y'all in person.

    Would love to put in some livestock. Every time I get the coin together, something comes up. Been arguing between rabbits, gulf sheep, oxen, or horses. Pros and cons all around.

    I'm gonna say it here, so that no one misses it, but I see no problems stacking it deep while you can. Would stack it deeper if I could.
    Ganado, 3M-TA3 and chelloveck like this.
  6. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    I agree with everything you said, but with some qualifications:

    1. While modern guns and ammo will be plentiful and game scarce during the first year or couple of years, as time goes on ammo will become harder to come by (bullets are easy, brass salvageable,.but primers and modern smokeless powder could be problematic) until civilization and industry begin to reemerge. Game will begin to make a comeback...because 70-90% of their human predators will be dead. So I can see where primitive weapons might become useful longer term if shit goes south to the point were we can't recover within a few years.

    2. Learning primitive skills can't hurt. ;)
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    What a great setup--I think you'll all do well even if things don't go bust.

    Raman noodles have a max shelf life of maybe two years. They eventually get rancid. That's not a big problem if you can rotate thru them annually.

    Crossbow bolts: Good news there. Buy a fletching tool and make your own. I've made rough&ready arrows from plain wood doweling, fiberglass tent poles salvaged from dead dome tents, and solid plastic round stock. You can make for about 10% of buy. And with geese, you can farm feathers for fletching. You can also make bows and prods from PVC plastic pipe. (Youtube).

    Your best bet with chickens is to go with the older breeds. Modern hens have been bred to never go broody. Dorking hens (a five-fingered chicken breed) might be what you need.

    Manual saws, both carpenter & crosscut can be found inexpensively at farm auctions & thrift stores. Good to have when gas gets slim. Ditto for chisels, files, planes, etc. Auctions are cheap-preps heaven: I've bought coleman stoves for $2, good files for $0.10 each, and lots more.

    You can make methane fuel gas by composting manure under a water sealed concrete dome. (Like a large chicken waterer.) Works great for cook stoves & heating. Most single-family farms use an 8' dome, I think.
    arleigh and chelloveck like this.
  8. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    I can give you a good deal on some turkey feathers...

    The only power tool I use is a powered drill, and even then I have to borrow a working battery for it. Takes a bit of getting use to hand tools, they have a lot of nuances. Big fan of a crooked knife and a chopper, haha. Picked up a 1 man crosscut with a 2nd man hand on it, and still haven't put it to any real use.
    UncleMorgan, Ganado and chelloveck like this.
  9. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have Raman noodles from 2008 that are like they were when we put them away. 7 years old. They must be kept in a dry cool place. I was told on another board they would go rancid. Has not happened to ours yet. Also white bleached flour. 7 years old packed in 0-2 Absorbers in sealed 5 gallon cans. Opened one last month to use. Good as new. Pancake flour was bad after 7 years. That has been the only prep that has spoiled since 2008. I threw out two cans of it. replaced with White rice. I am stacked so deep in .22 lr that it will out last my life span, my sons lfe and will be passed to my grand son. . I have three rifles and two hand guns to use it up. All our Ammo is stored in Army ammo cans with desicants It will be usable 50 years from now. I have shovels, axes, mauls, hand saws, hand carts, and every hand tool I could think of. Knives , files, old blades I scavenged at the dump. Those things are must have haves. I must have 15 deep cycle batteries and another 5 car batteries. Almost 100 gallons of gas now. 560 gallons of propane and 80 little one pound propane cans for the camp stove and lantern. Im still stacking chainsaw parts. 5 cases of 2 stroke oil, 6 gallons of bar oil, 13 extra chains and still adding. Saw files for the Stihl chains. spark plugs , motor oil for the Genny and the jeep. Still working on a stand alone wet leg 300 gallon propane tank for the jeep. I converted it to run on propane last year. Im trying these two Cochen hens. They both go broody and one of our Wheaten Hens also has gone broody. But yes the older breeds seem to sit eggs. Im trying to stay away from hatchery birds. . Rabbits are easy to raise and my set up can ramp up to a over hundred meat rabbits in about 90 days. Good for trade as well as food. Stacked silver bars real deep. I have zero money in any bank at this moment. My crossbow would destroy any hand made bolts. It is way too powerful for wood . Ill stick with factory carbon bolts. I am going to get another recurve bow however and order some cedar shafts and make some arrows using the geese feathers that are all over my yard. It will be my little project to see if I can relearn to shoot instinctive again. Most likely a bear kodiac in 60 pound range. My blended Bifocals will be hard to get around but maybe if I start with something I have never shot I can learn from the beginning and relearn to see the spot. I dont however have a lot of time as this little farm keeps me running. Today it was a new dog pen. I worked 8 hours straight and got it done before the rain set in. Friday its going back into the colder temps and I have to get things buttoned up here. Winter is coming.
    BlueDuck and UncleMorgan like this.
  10. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    A word to the wise, then. Bamboo is the favored shafting material pre-aluminum. 2, Medieval war arrows used 32" 3/8" poplar for shafting material...which you can pick up at the hardware store or Walmart for roughly $1 apiece. it's what I shoot when I don't feel like finding shafting material.
    chelloveck and UncleMorgan like this.
  11. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    Well, winter is trying to break early here. Temps near 50 today, the snow is almost gone and the lake is almost open. Weather forecast says temps over freezing for the next 10 days. Geese are already across the street honking and nesting. This is a full month early. Not sure if I like it. I love the nice weather but am concerned about trees and animals being fooled and then froze out in March which has happened so many times. At least the nights here are still predicted to stay under freezing and that should hold off the trees from budding early.

    I passed on getting a recurve bow this winter . I bought a new AR-15 instead. I got 1300 rounds and Burris optics. We did add some more Raman and more rice. Picked up boxed mashed potatoes from Sam's club and some bulk spices. We never had time to get back out and fill that last deer tag. Two however is enough for us. Bluegill fishing is right around the corner and I have to get rods and reels ready and the canoe up to the house. Local store is running chicken thighs for .87 cent s a pound. Picked up 6 packs. I think this spring I am going to cut my wood for next year early and may cut all summer and stock pile.
    Ganado and UncleMorgan like this.
  12. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I counted my .22 long rifle rounds and can shoot 2 rounds per day for around 27 years(20,050). Or one round per day for around 54 years . I have now 600 rounds of shotgun ammo most of which is buck shot. 300 rounds of 30-30 ,500 rounds of 30-06 and about 1200 left of .223/5.56 . I need more center fire and am shopping . Several years ago I got some great deals on 30-30 and 30-06 but have not seen many good deals lately. I did find a new source of Crossbow bolts for 6 packs for 24 bucks. I have about 30 now. Broadheads are still very expensive so I went with one piece Montecs for long term. I can resharpen them. Still shooting spitfires while I can buy them.
    BlueDuck, UncleMorgan and Gator 45/70 like this.
  13. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Part of my preps is aquaponics "raising fish and gardening together." They provide the circle of life quite effeciently if done right.
    I'm still learning .
    My gardening and fish are purely experimental right now making my mistakes at a more economically safe level than going full blown right off the bat. Though as time passes I dare not hesitate too long to get more serious.
    I have been gathering materials for making the green house and that's about to become a reality soon.
    The green house is not an option it's a necessity .
    I have surveillance around the house now ,and it is expendable till an EMP hits , alternative units are in Faraday protection..
    On gas, I've got gasoline and diesel in storage and propane as well .
    On the 1 Lb bottles I refill them, and I found that they tend to leak the moment you've used one and remove the torch or what ever it was connected to ,So I found brass bottle caps for them on line , about $8. a pair I've been buying several so every thing is well protected. I see no problem learning primitive skills , I believe that learning how to do every thing in as broad a spectrum as possible .
    This was a great value to me going from one job to the next especially in the repair industry .
    Knowing how to weld and the strengths of materials and their weaknesses puts me ahead of the curve, often making things better then they were manufactured .
    A lot of what's made is planned obsolescence, especially electronics .
    The timer chip is not necessarily there to keep time, much as it is a count down device.

    So far as weaponry the field is broad and the possibilities are endless depending on one's imagination and creativity .
    Question is are you willing to take some one's life even though they may be attempting to take your own ? (or those you love)
    Not all of us are a vengeful mind set right now, because no threat has actually occurred ,(Yet)
    If some one of you group is held hostage, (or made bait) what are the resolutions every one is settled with should that occur ?
    Do your children realize the test of devotion to family that will be at hand, if friends come to the door looking to compromise security .
    Modern kids have no idea what war is like, and that is a big disadvantage compared to the refugees entering our shores.
    There is a good Twilight Zone episode about the bunker.

    Knowing something about medicine and advanced first aid and dealing with the servilely injured is not all learned in books ,
    being able to deal with serious injuries such as gun shot wounds and lacerations is no picnic . It takes a deliberate effort to learn to deal with these , and ideally every one in the group should be included in this training That way no one person lost will jepordise the rest and one can do things to care for their own wounds in the mean time. (if possible)
    Knowing how to recognize decease, and have the courage to act, and not spare feelings.
    Compromise in this area, will kill every one.
    A significant stock of gloves is very important both for those in the field and those at home.
    If you don't think germ warfare is not possible think again.
    All governments have great deal invested in this.
    One reason I use make and teach Colloidal Silver.
    Yes there are other options out there but CS has a very wide band of coverage and is easy to make.
    Ganado and UncleMorgan like this.
  14. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    My wife is a 28 year Registered nurse. My daughter is a Nurse practitioner. Lots of medical knowledge and supplies here.
    Ganado, VisuTrac and chelloveck like this.
  15. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

  16. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd Site Supporter+

    I'm gonna need to start stacking wives.
    Ganado likes this.
  17. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Al least four deep, and seven if you have the space and the stamina.

    And the ear protection.
    Ganado and kellory like this.
  18. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    too many mouths to feed. One is enough ha ha ha .
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