Synthetic stocks...a real pain in the ......

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by dragonfly, Oct 14, 2010.


  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Shoulder!
    Not to mention the back!
    Especially now that I am "disabled", with crushed sciatic nerves on both sides.....
    I currently have 3 Mossbergs with synthetic stocks, and have barely fired 2 of them.
    By "barely", I mean a few as in no more than maybe 4 rounds.....each!
    I tried a standard remington, 2 3/4 inch, #7 1/2 shot load ( 7/8 oz).
    That was not too bad. I fired a standard load #4 and it "kinda" hurt.
    I Fired a 9 pellet 00 buck round and it beat the living heck out of me!
    I got brave, and tried a 1 oz slug. That spun me around at least 90 degrees and I was hurt. I almost dropped the shotgun!
    I am 6 ft tall, 220 lbs and have been shooting shotguns since I was 11.
    I used to be able to fire slugs all day long, and apart from maybe a bruise from later in the day, no bad recoil or effects!
    I have NEVER in my life been so ABUSED as I have been by these Mossberg's! I had 3, 500 series Mossberg's, with wooden stocks and forearms, that NEVER recoiled this bad.
    I took the butt plates off and the stocks are so thinly "injection molded" plastic, I can bend them ( pinch) with only 2 fingers!
    I have decided to install some sort of buffer system, but the best I've found, cost more than any shotgun I have ever owned! ( $270.00)
    They are "hydraulic" types and it takes a gunsmith to install...?
    Yikes!
    I tried putting a load of 5,7, and 8 lbs, of lead shot into the hollow stocks, but it had to be packed with scrunched up paper towels to hold the shot in place......It did NOT work. The weight is unbalanced and unweidly, no matter the amounts I have tried.
    "IF" I had the proper way to do so, I'd install a pvc pipe, with a machined brass weight and a compression spring, that free floats inside. I'd plug both ends with silicone and plugs, to add additional absorbption of the weight pushing on the spring towards the rear, ( upon firing) and then forward of the weight, to reduce the return recoil of the weight coming back to "static" position....
    Ideas?
    I have tried those "slip on" pads, but they did nothing as far as recoil reduction....
     
  2. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Anyone have an idea, on HOW TO, manage to connect the recoil tube, to both the shotgun and the stock, separately?
    Otherwise, the entire thing is just a waste of time in engineering and design!
    I have seen butt plates with 2 springs separating the rear plate from the stock, and that might be something, but it is another problem with a GAP that could PINCH the daylights out of you, IF you did not have it shouldered correctly! It's always something!
     
  4. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

  5. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  6. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Wow! Too much dinero!
    Plus, I want to keep the full stock, not have a collapsible one.
    Thanks for the info though!
     
  7. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    I have a winchester model 1200 in 12 gauge with a hydrocoil (SP) stock that i shoot sometimes it cuts the recoil in half... only issue is that if you are not careful you can bump your nose with your thumb when you shoot them... I understand that they may still be available or have a new model being made...
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    So...here we go "Sports Fans"!
    I have spent my money and come home with all the "goodies" I intend to use to make my own 2 different types of buffers....
    ( I don't recommend anyone try this at home!)
    I will be posting pics of the entire thing as I progress...
    Foam for filling and holding pvc tubes in place, silicone for making internal buffer padding, pvc glue for assembly, springs ( compression types: measured for length, diameter, and strength) rubber stoppers to hold springs centered and additional "buffer" strength, pvc tubing, 1 inch and 3/4 inch.
    1 inch for a single tube to be assembled for a single shot shotgun, with a wooden stock. The 3/4 inch tubing ( not shown here) is to be used for dual tube buffers, for the Mossberg shotguns.
    Picture.
     
  9. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Good luck let me know how it works...
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Well, 1) you should always measure things first!
    My Mossberg 500A's (5 shot) have a different stock than the Mossberg 500A's (8 shot)! Who knew they'd do such a wild and crazy thing?
    The 5 shot stock is MUCH thinner in thickness, much more flexible, and really easy to CRACK! But, it is larger in inside dimensions, than the 8 shot!
    Weird....The 8 shot stock is tighter inside, deeper than the 5 shot, but much thicker in it's construction???
    On we go.....
     
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Photos of the problems and assy's....
    Note the differences in the stock designs, and the "clearance" problems....
    It will take "extra work" now to continue to install tubes....
    The end caps being a larger diameter have some interference with their diamters, so I will have to "grind" the sides of each "cap" where they come in contact with the stock interior, essentially making "flats" so they will still be solid, but slide in place. Forcing them into position would crack the stocks!
    Picture 006. Picture 007. Picture 008. Picture 009.
     
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Pre-measure your pipe lengths, using the pipe itself, tape measures give an extra inch to inch and a half in length as the tape is flat and the pipe is much larger! I know, it got me! I started over again!
    Pre-cut pipes to about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch LONGER than needed....It's easier to cut off excess than to make a new pipe! Once the pipes are cut to length, squirt silicone into the end about 3/4 to 1 inch down (inside) and slowly fill the pipe to the end, trying to avoid air bubbles. More or less as you like, it is a buffer where the spring will "RETURN" after the initial compression of the firing sequence. Then squirt about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch into the end cap, quickly, coat the pipe end with heavy bodied PVC adhesive/glue, and quickly put the end on twisting it on as it seats. Wipe of excess glue ( messy stuff!) and tap the pipe end cap down, several times against a hard surface, to settle and dislodge any air bubbles in the silicone.
    Now, let it set for the silicone and PVC adhesive to cure!
    Be sure to set the assembled sections of pipe with silicone inside, (open end pointing upwards), so the silicone will set in a relatively smooth/flat place for the next part.
    Picture 005. Picture 001. Picture 002. Picture 003. Picture 004.
     
  13. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    Also, don't forget there are 'reduced recoil' defensive shotshells!
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Springs and buffers.....
    Here I have placed "rubber corks" into one end of the springs, that will set against the silicone "plugs" made into the end of the pvc tubes....They will reduce the opposing effects, when the springs decompress and return to normal extension.....
    "IF" for any reason the springs are too long, I can easily exchange them for shorter ones at the ACE hardware store!
    IF they are NOT sufficiently strong enough, or too stout, I can simply put another spring inside the first, or replace them entirely with other sizes and strengths....easy fix!
    The end result will be; a brass/or? piston inside the tube resting against the spring in a "lightly compressed state"....The piston has to be made to fit the length left inside of the tube. The weight is NO longer a requirement, and the pistons could be made of nylon, plastic, aluminum, or whatever materials. The spring is doing all of the work, NOT by the weight of the pistons. When the assembly is finished there will be a small "GAP", ( maybe 3/4 to an inch) left between the stock itself and the buttplate. A shaft connecting the piston assembly and the buttplate will be seen extending out from the stock. That shaft ( "shafts" in the case of a dual tube assy) is made of either steel, aluminum or any other strong 3/8 to 1/2 inch diameter material. They are connected to the buttplate by either: welding ( steel rod to steel plate), or by threading, ( shaft to a nut or a threaded plate).
    The "gap" can be easily hidden by using a slip over type butt pad, or by placing a foam strip inbetween the stock and buttplate assy.
    Picture 011.
     
  15. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    I need ALL the "reduced recoil" I can get!
     
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Hmmmm...
    I "lost" a post with a pic.....!
     
  17. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Let's try this once more...?
    I machined nylon for the replacement of the rubber corks/stoppers...The rubber was too compressive in nature and forced their way out of the springs, turning crooked....I may try other materials as I have aluminum, and brass stock as well! I then used a rasp ( and lathe with a collet) to turn the rubber corks down to a very tight fit into the springs, and that cured the slippage problems.....
    Next, the "PISTONS"!
    Picture 012.
     
  18. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    A few more pics...
    I had to do some machining which I was hoping to avoid, to make these as quickly and simply as possible...Murphy's law!
    I had to make machined brass "pistons", fit them into the springs, and then drill and tapped them to take a 3/8 inch 24 thread bolt.
    I had a 3/8-24 bolt, cut and machined flats on it, and had to turn 2 hex nuts to rounds, to fit into the springs to retain the pistons on the bolt sections. I chose 3/8 inch for the heavier size, and the 24 thread for the coarse thread, as opposed to a fine thread. Ease of assembly!
    So far, it has taken MUCH more time to assemble the spring system than I originally imagined, but it appears to be much better than I had planned!
    Still waiting for that danged silicone to cure!
    Picture 014. Picture 015. Picture 016. Picture 017. Picture 018. Picture 019. Picture 020.
     
  19. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Going back to the basics....I am returning to the original design mode, and trying to simplify the parts, and assembly of the "buffer" unit.
    Here are a couple more pics...
    Here are 2 with nylon "buffer" end pieces, and 4 with rubber type end pieces....Then I went back to the pvc pipe and using larger rubber stoppers/corks, which were rasp cut to fit tightly into the 3/4 inch schedule 40 pipes.The rubber pieces will be the fore-end parts where the springs will butt up against inside. These rubber corks, will be drilled and pinned into the pvc pipes. That eliminates the need for pvc caps, glue, and silicone. ( no more curing times! YAY!!!)
    Not everyone has an access to a lathe, collets, drill presses, mills, taps and die sets, much less all the different drill sizes needed for all the modifications in building some of these....So, I am stepping back and going basic again!
    Picture 021. Picture 022.
     
  20. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

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