The 22lr is badass and here is why

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by tacmotusn, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I have done a lot of penetration tests with .22. This next picture is a cheap Remmington thunderbolt 1250 fps into a fresh deer head at 30 yards. The bullet was recovered and mushroomed to .36 caliber and blew out the opposite side of the skull. The deer itself was harvested using my crossbow and I took the still warm head as soon as I got her home and performed the test. The first pic shows the entrance hole the second shows the exit and the third shows the exit after I inserted my finger into the brain. The entire area around the exit hole was shattered and trama was severe.

    This test proved to me that I can use my .22 for any Game harvest up to deer size animals. I also keep over 14,000 rounds for our .22 rifles. Unlike Gun Kid I do noy see the .22 as a first line defensive weapon BUT;;;; If I was on the run with no re supply I would carry my Ruger 10-22 and 2,000 rounds. My AR-15 would be left behind. I use a Marlin 981-T bolt action with a redfield revolution scope for game taking. It is deadly accurate. I can make this head shot on a deer every time.

    entrance2.JPG exit1.JPG exit2.JPG
  2. Nadja

    Nadja RIP 3-11-2013 Forum Leader

    Kingfish, I grew up with owning my first .22 rifle at about age 11. It was a remington , octogon barrel, pump action, chambered in .22 long only. I killed many many cottontail rabbits with it for sunday bar be que's and my grandfather would kick my tail end if I body shot any of them. It destroyed the meat. They all had to be head shots.
    Anybody who has never used one, has a new experience waiting for them. Mostly pleasant. I have often thought that should push come to shove, I would take my Marlin bolt action, clip fed .22 to escape with along with about 500 rounds. I am old you know.
    While it is not the best defense weapon by any scope of the imiganation, it will do in a pinch.
    Dunerunner, Brokor and tacmotusn like this.
  3. Stillwater

    Stillwater Monkey+++

    He is back, and has been banned from several forums...

  4. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    He has been banned from her no less than 15 times under different names.
  5. Rich Seal

    Rich Seal Monkey

    i've never doubted the .22LR as a killer, but not a first choice as a primary self defense weapon. however, round placement is obviously the most critical part of any shooting. a .45 in the shoulder is nearly useless; a .22LR square in the throat -- showstopper. i would however be inclined to tote a .22 mag as a self defense weapon just a bit more than a .22LR; something like a PMR-30. i will say my S&W 22A & Chiappa 1911-22 are extremely accurate up to 25 yards of indoor shooting & my Ruger 10-22 is spot on up to 100 yards so far. i'd be comfortable having either pistol by my side if i have a SHTF moment. the 10-22 coupled with the 30 round clip & 3x9x40 scope can keep folks at bay if needed & fill a meat pot for sure. just my two cents.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  6. Warscent

    Warscent Corus corax

    .22LR is a survivalists most important round period. Everything else is just lagniappe.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  7. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    ONE of the good points about the 22lr in a bug out situation is that it keeps stealth and E&E in the fore front of your mind.
    Lone Gunman likes this.
  8. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    As the High Standard HDM has been in the inventory since the days OSS in WWII, it served in the Cold War, and Vietnam; the "study" missed the opportunity to include few others. To "them", the 22rf is a narrow focus special purpose tool. It is used for assassination and/or when being discovered almost certainly includes being dead.

    IMO, as a survival weapon, the 22rf is practically unbeatable. In a survival scenario, the 22rf leaves a lot more of the squirrel to eat than 5.56. ;) Looking to the other extreme. very few tests of penetration and terminal ballistics compare the 22 rf to 5.56 or 6.8SPC. The 5.56's version of a 22 rf flesh wound will blow "chunks" same as the squirrel did.
    Again IMO, the pistol is for when you can't carry a rifle. If a nut job starts swinging a samurai sword, a pistol or revolver will stop them and save a lot of people. How about against a team of terrorists who open fire with AKs?

    The problem with firearms is each is both a specialist and a generalist. With apologies to Clint Eastwood "A man's got to know his and his gear's limitations."

    To me that means if my "evasion and stealth" skills are good the 22rf will do just fine for surviving but not brawling. A good friend and wife enjoy nature walks in Colorado. For them, 22 rf rifle and 357/41/44 mag revolver is the best "eat good" and "feel safe" combination. :D
    tacmotusn and oldawg like this.
  9. mason78

    mason78 Monkey

    Love my mossberg 22lr, would be one of the first things I grab if I gotta bug out!
    melbo likes this.
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    A 22LR Rifle is a "Dinner Getter" inside 50 Yds.... It would NOT be my choice, for a Defensive Weapon in ANY Senerio... A 22Lr Pistol is a "Dinner Getter" inside 10 Yds..... It ALSO would not be my choice for a Defensive Weapon, unless it was all that was available. There are better Rounds available for Defensive Weaponry, that are as common as the 22LR, in most circumstances. Think, 30-30 for a Rifle, or Lever Action Carbine, and .38SPL/.357Mag for Pistol, or Lever Action Carbine. Any of these can do Dual Purpose, like taking Bigger Game, or Defensive Ops, out to 100 Yds. All of the above, should be available in any Shop that sells Ammunition, in the Normal World.

    All the above is true, even though I never shot a Deer, with anything bigger than my 22LR Winchester Model 69A, clip fed, Bolt Action, Rifle, until I was 22 Years Old, and bought my Winchester 94 Saddle Ring Carbine, in 30-30. All of the above weapons are in the Gun Locker, and still used...... .....
    Gray Wolf likes this.
  11. Wheelsucker

    Wheelsucker Out of Airspeed, Altitude & Ideas

    I'd imagine a pro with a 22 would have something bigger on his belt as a backup in case an assassination turns into a gunfight.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Quite possibly, and I would agree that would be prudent, however many who post here are missing the key points. #1 every prepper should own a couple or a few 22LR firearms (if you disagree with that premise we have nothing further to say). #2 ammo per shot with a 22LR is cheaper (or it once was at 3.5 to 4 cents per round) than any other cartridge. At 5 to 6 cents a round and under I would suggest stock piling all that you are allowed to buy or can afford. Why you may say? #3 The 22LR round is the most common and popular cartridge in the world; it can be used for barter (and will be a high demand item post shtf). #4 If you are sitting on a mountain of a stockpile of 22LR (50,000 to 200,000 rounds), in your area of operations post shtf, once everyone else around you has run out of centerfire ammo and reloading components, those with muzzleloaders and 22lr rimfires will be top dogs in a firefight/repelling attackers.
    I am not nor have I ever said the 22lr is all you need or should have to protect you and yours or to harvest game.
    The 22lr is what it is: a very cheap training platform, game getter, and in a pinch a self defense or offensive tool.
  13. Georgia_Boy

    Georgia_Boy Monkey+++

    I have enjoyed this thread. I have 1022s and m60 but after I got my Ruger .17HMR a few years ago I stopped using the 22s as I had much longer distances to shoot with the HMR vs the 22LR. The major drawbacks to the the HMR are 1. Cost per round and 2. damage to game. Unless it is a head shot most varmints end up in chunks. I also wonder if these HMRs would penetrate vests better given their more slender profile?
    I apologize for the thread drift.....
    tacmotusn likes this.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I agree with tac's reasoning pretty much.

    Having a few extra 22LR rifles on hand may also be useful for arming relatives/friends you may admit to your holding who arrive empty handed.

    Having a .22LR allows you some flexibility in engaging intruders without giving up your strength in firepower prematurely.

    A sound suppressed .22LR may make taking small game and varmints (2 and 4 legged) a little more safer from detection than larger centrefire calibre weapons. Estimating distance to a firer becomes something more of a challenge when the thump part of the crack-thump equation is disguised. 101 Part 82 - RANGING ENEMY FIRE - Crack Thump Method
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
    tacmotusn likes this.
  15. tract

    tract On Hiatus Banned

    no, the .22lr is not more powerful than the .32, not in the same length barrels. And if you get European .32, it's loaded much "hotter" than the wussy US .32 ammo. As in 120 ft lbs, not 70.

    when the ammo is subsonic and a suppressor is used there's no crack or thump. :)

    22lr's, from the same length barrel, say 3" long, as the .32, have 70 ft lbs, at best.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Yet, your choice includes carrying a 22 conversion when on the move? Consistency counts --
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  17. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yeah, my .22 conversion in my AR is nowhere near as accurate as my .22 Mossberg 151K or the Savage MKII bolt action .22

    @tacmotusn check this out

    No need for those WIMPY little SUB SONIC rounds. No need for stealth when you can DESTROY everything! Notice the warning: Keep out of the reach of children (ONLY REAL AMMO HAS THIS WARNING!)

    DSC00015.JPG DSC00014.JPG

    Who cares if the Swartklip factory BLEW UP? You can't get these rounds any more! THEY ARE THAT DEADLY!
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  18. TonyinCNY

    TonyinCNY Neophyte Monkey

    To add my 2 cents - one poster mentioned how most handgun encounters take place within 10 feet. So, he reckons, that the larger the caliber the better the chances for stopping power. That is good reasoning perhaps - for a trained person.
    But, how many folks, especially women, really have that much training. The loud explosion stuns both shooter and those shot for a second or two. Then, you have to determine if your shot was effective. If not, re-aim and shoot again.
    With a .22lr, no big noise, no big flash, no big recoil. Just keep pulling that trigger until the perp decides he has enough holes in his body. At 10' it's hard to miss with a no recoil gun.
    AND, which is more effective, multiple .22 holes in the body or one .45? Two .22's is about equal to a .45, isn't it? With the no recoil .22, you can place the shots all over for greatest effectiveness. Shoot 'em in the legs, shoot 'em in the balls, shoot 'em in the face - ALL AS FAST AS YOU CAN PULL THE TRIGGER. Try THAT with a .45 at 10' and bullets will be sprayed all over the place.
    Cops and judges don't like it when you use your gun and hit innocent bystanders.
  19. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    @TonyinCNY Nope, Not even close on the .22LR/45ACP Projectile comparison.... .22LR Projectile is 40-50 Grains.... 45ACP is 200 - 250 Grains.... 4 to 5 times the Mass, and if we assume the same Muzzle Velocity, GIANT difference, in Muzzle Energy....
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Even if you don't consider velocity differences (assume 45 cal at about 850 fps, a run of the mill load, and 22 cal at barely sonic, say 1200 fps again run of the mill) the energy delivered on target is rather, um, heavily in favor of the 45. If you take the real possibility of drug induced bravado on the part of the oncoming perp, a 22 will add up to a perceived skeeter bite and won't even slow down for a series of hits to happen before the knife is between the ribs. A 45 will cause a pause long enough for a follow up.

    That 10' mention puts even more emphasis on heavier calibers, at that distance the perp will be on you in way less than a second, but that's another story. You wait for that, and you've waited too long; 30 feet in a second at full speed is not unrealistic.
    Yard Dart likes this.
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