1. Given the media intensity given to the Covid 19 (otherwise known as Corona or Wuhan) virus, there seems no reason to have posts on that very specific subject in several forums Accordingly, all of those posts will be moved to "Headlines". All new items on that subject should be posted there as well. This notice will expire on 30 June or be extended if needed.

The 6.5 is still in the running for Sniper Work, so many projects, so much misinformation.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by HK_User, May 19, 2020.

  1. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    As in the previous 6.8 Thread in which more than one intell report it was stated the two 6.8 rounds were the same and in other articles they are different, at least here it is (as of now) listed as a singular project, sort of!

    SOCOM Wants 6.5mm Sniper Weapon for Longer-Range Kills
    A U.S. Army Operator assigned to 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne) finds a sight picture during sniper training on Fort Carson, Colorado, Dec., 6, 2018. (U.S. Army/Spc. Jacob Krone)
    18 May 2020
    Military.com | By Matthew Cox
    U.S. Special Operations Command will wait for the Army's 6.8mm rifle and automatic rifle, but it's moving forward to adopt a new sniper support weapon chambered in the longer-range 6.5mm Creedmoor round.

    If all goes well with the Army's 6.8mm Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) effort, special-ops weapons officials plan to field both variants to units such as the 75th Ranger Regiment after the service begins its planned fielding in fiscal 2023.

    Program Executive Officer Special Operations Forces Warrior officials said recently that plans for the 6.5mm Creedmoor lightweight machine gun have been put on hold to see whether the NGSW can fill that role, but "we are pressing forward" with the sniper variant of the Mid-Range Gas Gun, or MRGG, chambered in 6.5mm Creedmoor, Col. Joel Babbitt, of PEO SOF Warrior, told defense reporters last week.

    Related: The Army's Next-Generation Squad Weapon Is a Big Hit With SOCOM

    "The Next Gen Squad Weapons are not sniper weapons, and the 6.5mm Creedmoor really fits that sniper support role," Babbitt said recently at the National Defense Industrial Association's vSOFIC 2020 industry conference. "We are replacing our 7.62x51mm sniper support weapons, which have a maximum effective range of 700 to 800 meters, with 6.5mm Creedmoor sniper support weapons that will give us a maximum effective range of around 1,200 meters."

    SOCOM intends to release a request for proposal to industry for 6.5mm Creedmoor ammunition in the fourth quarter of this fiscal year and hopes to award a contract in the first quarter of fiscal 2021, according to a PEO SOF Warrior slide presentation.

    The request for proposals for the sniper 6.5mm Creedmoor MRGG is also expected to be released this fiscal year, but program officials don't plan on awarding a contract until the end of fiscal 2022, according to the presentation.

    In 2019, SOCOM adopted Barrett Firearms Manufacturing Inc.'s Multi-Role Adaptive Design Rifle, or MRAD, a bolt-action weapon that can be converted to fire 7.62x51mm NATO, .300 Norma Magnum and .338 Norma Magnum ammunition.

    The Army plans to buy the MRAD Mk22 sometime in fiscal 2021 to replace the .50 caliber M107 sniper rifle and M2010 Enhanced Sniper Rifle in .300 Winchester Magnum.

    The Marine Corps also plans to replace its Mk13 Mod 7 sniper rifle, chambered for .300 Winchester Magnum, with the Mk22 MRAD.

    -- Matthew Cox can be reached at matthew.cox@military.com.

    Read more: Army and Marines to Arm Snipers with Special Operations Multi-Caliber Sniper Rifle
  2. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Funny, but the claims of the 7.62X51 only being effective out to 800 meters is horseshit, we were consistently getting them out to past 1200 meters day in and day out! Oh well, The Creedtard does a good job bucking the wind, but lacks the punch of the 30's to put a kill on the ground in one shot at range! Not my Military anymore, don't really care, but this is not helping! There is a good reason for such things as the .300 Win Mag!
  3. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Had a really nice Colt Saur 300 WM. Things got tough because I had to do a self pay for back surgery. Sold it to a friend at a fair price. I Miss the Colt, I do not have the pain and really miss the 300 for those long shots in Kansas
    Best thing at the time.
    Things happen and you go with the flow and adjust.

    Yes I have shot matches with the Garand (30-06) and know what it can do. Never did a match with the 308.
    Ura-Ki, Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  4. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    Friend has the 6.5 creed
    Its nothing for him to cover leaf at 100 yds
    Ura-Ki and HK_User like this.
  5. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    Never shot the 6.5, but I do like the less recoil of the 6.8 spec ll and if crooks who ran the the first test of the 6.8 had been caught early on this might all be over long ago.

    But just another Mil/Gov cover up.
    Ura-Ki, Tully Mars and Gator 45/70 like this.
  6. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Never understood the reason for the 6.5 Creed. The .260 Rem is flatter shooting and stands up better in crosswind. Close behind is the 6.5x55 Swede-my favorite of the 3. Not quite as good as the .260, but I like it-it's a shore nuff bell ringer. I'll add my ever favorite in the class the .264 Win Mag. Absolutely love this cartridge. I have an old FN Browning chambered in this that was made when John hisself was still around and it's still a tack driver.
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Gator 45/70, Ura-Ki and HK_User like this.
  7. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    7mm Win Short Mag for the WIN, best ballistics for what the Mil actually is trying to do here!
  8. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    My oldest brother and his best friend each had one (264 WM) - model 70 Winchesters bought new in the early 1960's. Both rifles were total tack drivers.

    The 6.5x55 is probably my all time favorite cartridge, even though the design of the newer ones have improved taper and shoulder angles. A hand loader can take advantage of a long action and seat one of the heavier bullets until it's within 1/4 RCH of the lands decreasing bullet jump. IMO at 140 grains and heavier it outclasses all the short action 6.5's.
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Gator 45/70, HK_User and Tully Mars like this.
  9. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Swede's LOVE the 140 grain.
  10. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I have been squirting 140 gr, 6.5's for YEARS out of the Swede's and even the 6.5/06 wildcat and the 7mm/6.5 magnum, absolute tack drivers that buck the wind like no others!
  11. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    I have plenty of 308/7.62 rifles and one 7mm Rem Mag. If you wants to extend the range of the work horse 308/7.62, use the uld /VLC bullets now available. If I ever go to a 6.5, then I will go to a 6.5 magnum type cartridge.
    Tully Mars and HK_User like this.
  12. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    While the 6.5 mm caliber's accuracy and BC is almost legendary, I hope the military doesn't get caught up in having weapons of too may different calibers. In times of war that turns out to be a logistical nightmare. The Japanese in WWII found that out the hard way.

    Some rifles were chambered in 6.5 mm, others in 7.7 mm, and still others in 7.7 mm rimmed versions. Of course getting the correct ammunition to the guys with the corresponding rifles didn't work out so well.
    Tully Mars, 3M-TA3 and HK_User like this.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey

    So True
  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    If I was a young high speed low drag guy in the ME today my preferred calibre would be either the .300 or the .338 Win Mag. I have spent many hours in the past shooting both at long distance and have pet loads for each. With todays options of bullets I just don't see how the Creed can compete with either in the real world for stopping power at long distances. But I'm just an old balding fat cowboy that's gotta lot of drag and no speed..
  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I'm right there with ya, I have no idea why they are chasing a problem that doesn't exist, it's completely stupid! I was there when the .338 L.M was first brought out, had a small part in it's development and was one of the first to field it for real, VERY impressive results in a good package that smoked everything else around it that wasn't a .50 BMG build! Was it heavy, YUP, by design, Did it kick, Oh Hell Yea It Did, What did any one expect, Was it slow, Yup, Again, by design! We used the ART-II System on the early versions, and NOTHING could match them, and still to this, day, it is unmatched for what it was designed for!
    Same deal with Maw-Duce, don't fuck with a good thing that has always worked! As to the .300, they never should have pulled away from that and the Winchesters built specifically for it, Yes, times have changed, and the needs have evolved, but there is no good reason to go smaller then the .300 for serious work, sure, the 7.62X51 can reach to 1600+ with every thing perfect, but why impose limits. I would rather have too much power and reach and not need it, then sit there lobbing rocks or having to call down MILLIONS of tax payer ( A-10 Strike) dollars to solve a $9.83 problem!!!!!
  16. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    The only reason I can think of to worry about a short action sniper cartridge is that you want it to work from a semi auto DMR platform. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to me, unless maybe as a DMR have quicker follow up shots? The 6.5mm and 7mm short action rounds ballistics outperform the 7.62/308 after a few hundred yards and have better penetration, but realistically, what's the point?
  17. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Even as a DMR, it still takes time to align the next outgoing care package, and I don't care who is making the claims, its a human element no machine can fix! As some one who did the DMR thing, even the M-21 for all it's goodness ( and it's faults) still took the same amount of time as the M-24 and M-40's to prosecute the next targets, in rare instances, semi auto does help, but isn't all that important, and I would rather have the capabilities afforded by those Bolt actions then the semi's lack there of!
  18. Big Ron

    Big Ron Monkey++

    6.5 cm shoots flat with minimal recoil. I have one for deer hunting. I imagine it could kill about anything depending on who is shooting it.
    Gator 45/70, HK_User and Ura-Ki like this.
  19. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    Agreed. Arm the spotter with a M21, PSG1, even a worked over AR10. There's your semi auto for "speed". Carlos Hathcock, Vasily Zaitsev, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, and Simo Hayha didn't seem to be slowed down by a bolt gun;)
    Gator 45/70, Ura-Ki and HK_User like this.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary