The AR-15 Is The “Musket of Our Time”

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Motomom34, Aug 9, 2016.


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  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    10430893_977545388976462_8099705155204524015_n.
     
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  2. jim2

    jim2 Monkey+++

    I find it laughable and pathetic that some modern Americans think these is a limit to military arms for civilians. First, everyone is in the militia whether they like it or not, and second, Americans have always had as good as or better than weapons supplied to the American military.

    Civilians had rifles capable of far more range and accuracy than the military. When lever action repeaters came along, guess what? Same for Colt revolvers and the like. It wasn't until the Garland came along that we started to fall behind. Of course NFA rags started making things difficult if not impossible.

    I would not want to see civilians owning ICBMs, WMD or the like, but see no problems with anything else.

    Jim
     
  3. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Serious question: what makes the government more trustworthy with WMD than civilians? Indeed, which has actually used them? ;)

    IMO, if it can't be trusted in the hands of the people, it DEFINITELY cannot be trusted in the hands of government.
     
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  4. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Serious answer --
    If you choose to ignore the conspiracy and invisible corporation theories, the gov't is us. Distrust the gov't, distrust yourself. Sorta like pack theories, if the pack is moral, the individual will conform (and vice versa) in pack settings. Individuals will act within their own set of standards if alone.
     
  5. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I'd rather that potential invaders be afraid of the citizenry armed with modern arms, than fearlessly march in against single shot black powder.
     
  6. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    If the government is us, why aren't we trusted with the same weapons that we buy for them...WITH OUR MONEY?

    The government hasn't been us in a long time, bucko.
     
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  7. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Do you see the point? I suppose not, and further suppose you did not read the whole post. Can you read disclaimers, or do you simply jump on sentences? Read the post again, chimo, and read the CoC item 1 again as well.
     
  8. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    To @chimo.....

    I think that ghrit was suggesting that if individuals are not acting within the moral constraints of the pack, which they themselves as individuals contribute to, and in turn gain benefit from upholding and supporting, then as individuals outside of that moral system, they will act according to their set of standards alone: which is ok, if their moral standards and values are on par with, or better than the standards of the pack. However, if the individual's self interested moral standards and values are substantially less than the pack, they may represent a serious threat to the pack as rogue agents (as criminals, political / religious motivated terrorists / psychopaths etc). A rogue agent represents a potential risk with a gun that they can buy with their own money, which may if used against the pack can be damaging enough; but a rogue agent with a WMD who can afford to buy it with WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, that takes the risk to the pack to a whole other level of mass destruction to the pack.

    There are more checks and balances with the pack controlling a WMD: an individual, subject only to the vagaries of their own decision making in its use, has far fewer constraints.

    My reply may not be as pithy as ghrit's might be, but I hope it makes the issue clearer.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Reduced to simple terms, we got what we asked for (or more accurately, allowed to happen to us.) Another way of saying it, "Silence gives consent."
     
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  10. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    I, feel I possess the maturity to own an ICBM. Hell, it makes me some kind of mad that I can't legally own a howitzer or a GE mini-gun. Why doesn't the hardware store sell C-4? For that matter, regular old 40% dynamite for clearing stumps. I'll tell ya why, because too many before us, and even a number of us, have stood by while rights have been taken a piece at a time. The AR is Americas new musket, and sadly we may one day have to use them before becoming emasculated like our Aussie and Brit brethren. Daily I wonder how the country that won WWII became such welfare suckin', Hitlerly supportin', limp wristed bunch of girly men who let some sh*t heads that can't get a job other than politics decide the fates for us all. I guess tonight we shall see where the majority of our fellow countrymen fall. I for one stand by with musket ready and powder dry.

    Chimo, 2/2!

    17-17-14-3-5 3-1-21-5
     
  11. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    You had no point that made any sense...and if saying so...or calling you "bucko" as a term of endearment is against the CoC just freakin ban me and you'll feel all high and mighty again.

    You ignored my point...THE GOVERNMENT IS NO LONGER US. We are not part of any pack, we are the servants of the political class unless they see fit to include us into their little club (which usually starts with a pay off).

    AGAIN: If the government is us, then why are we individuals less trustworthy than the collective of government?

    If it's good enough for government use, it is good enough for individual use...ESPECIALLY when the individuals are those who are paying the bills...ironically under threat of the same weapons we bought for them in the first place!
     
  12. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    FREE people are considered to be sane, responsible and law-abiding in FREE countries UNTIL their ACTIONS prove otherwise - you know, the same way you think of government.

    If you can't trust the individuals of a country to own whatever, then the government of that country DEFINITELY cannot be trusted to own it.
     
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  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I hate to break it to you, but not all free people are necessarily sane, competent, law abiding and / or responsible. It's cold comfort for those who have died or have been injured at the hands of the insane, the incompetent, the criminal and / or the irresponsible, that other's freedoms haven't been infringed, until a perp's actions have proven that trust in them was misplaced. No doubt about it, it's a dilemma, that is cause for much hand wringing and heart ache each time tragedy strikes the innocent.
     
  14. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    In legal matters, this is true. But, not in every instance. It is a most relevant thought, however.
    It's normal for acquaintances to banter and poke, but it is always best not to do so if the conversation becomes serious. We can debate calmly and be civil, or get heated and slip from time to time, but I like to think we can also stop and recognize an error in judgment, too. The only thing that matters is how the other person feels when you use a name to refer to them other than their forum name. This is why this particular CoC rule was made, as is my understanding. It doesn't matter if you are right. Now, can we carry on with the topic, folks?

    :) I would not like to see this thread locked. But, I'm sure it will be if this proceeds. No need for official warnings yet, I imagine. There's still time to come back and find an accord.
     
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  15. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    You miss the point...while of course any person can be a criminal, terrorist, wacko, etc, in FREE societies, FREE people are considered to be sane, responsible and law-abiding BY DEFAULT, until their actions (and due process) prove otherwise. Thus a MIRV in the hands of a citizen is no more a danger to others than a MIRV in the hands of a collective of citizens called government UNTIL their actions prove otherwise. Granted, the actions of our government with nukes might be debatable (in another thread of course).

    Dangerous? Oh yeah...that individual...or government...can easily go rogue (Invasion of Iraq anyone?) and kill a lot of people...but nobody ever said that freedom was risk-free, safe or even purdy. With freedom comes danger and risk...those who can't handle those dangers and risk are "free" to become subjects...but they are not free to subjugate others who want to remain free and accept those risks. That means, if you don't want me to own a rifle or a nuke, you can either PROVE me to be a criminal/terrorist/wacko via due process...or move to another place where you will feel safer. This notion that we, as a collective, can restrict the rights of others due to only our fears of what they MIGHT do, rather than by their actions and due process...is not one that is compatible with an actual free society.

    Yes, I know, under my definition, we have not been a free society in quite some time. :(

    Back to my original premise...again...why should government be considered more trustworthy than any of the individuals who allegedly own that government?
     
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  16. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    My bad...I considered "bucko" as lighthearted, Happy Days stuff.
     
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  17. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    At least you didn't tell him to "sit and spin"...
     
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  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    My question would be..... If you did tell Chellie to "Sit and Spin" would he Spin CounterClockwise, because he is Down-Under????[lolol]
     
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  19. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Most contrarians in the Southern Hemisphere would spin clockwise (to the left), but my guess in this particular instance would be about the X or Y axis randomly changing direction and speed..
     
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  20. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    Did you like hack my laptop's camera and wait for me to be sipping coffee to post this?

    [​IMG]
     
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