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The Archer - Trick shots, hardware and history

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MountainMariner, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. MountainMariner

    MountainMariner Clearly Ambiguous

    Enjoyed watching this one today. This guy is crazy good with a bow.

    Cruisin Sloth likes this.
  2. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    kellory likes this.
  3. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Being an archer myself, I'd say Lars is using a bow with about a 30-pound draw, based on the way the arrows can knock over tripods, and the relatively flat trajectory in the longer indoor shots. Possibly 40 lbs., considering that the bow isn't always taken to full draw.

    30 lbs. might not seem like much compared to the 200-plus-lbs of period English longbows--but even 20 lbs. is enough to take down a deer.

    Or a man.

    It really doesn't really matter if it took twenty takes to hit the flying arrow or shave the shaft on a knife--what matters is the fact that it can be done at all.

    Likewise, catching an arrow and shooting it back is a bug-yer-eyes-out demonstration of skill and courage.

    Almost no one will even try to catch an arrow that doesn't have a great big, fat, (safe!) blunt head on it.
    And that definitely includes me.

    Make one small error catching a pointed arrow and it can wind up sticking through your hand. Make one large error catching a pointed arrow and it can glance off your hand and wind up sticking in your body.

    Probably not in the throat or eyes, but you never can tell. Sometime being unlucky goes right along with being unskilled.

    In checking up on this at three different sources, I do agree that some of Lars' statements about the history of archery are inaccurate. Quivers, for example, were not invented by Hollywood. But the use of quivers does not conflict with his arrows-in-hand style of shooting.

    Quivers are suitcases for arrows. They are for getting your arrow supply--usually about two dozen-- from point A to point B without them being damaged. REAL quivers, by the way, have a rain-proof closure. That's the flap-like thing you sometimes see on historical examples.

    The simple tube quiver is a fair-day sporting accessory.

    In war, an archer would/could load up a fistful of arrows from his quiver and fast-fire them. Then reload his hands again. (And that is actually shown in the film.)

    A big deal is made out of the fact that Lars used a fat headless bamboo arrow as the target in his arrow-splitting demo. I don't consider that a "trick". The arrow to be split has to be splitable in the first place. Shoot a standard wooden arrow and it will break, not split. Shoot an aluminum arrow and it will bend, not split.

    Ditto on splitting an arrow on a knife blade. Lars used a headless arrow because a tipped arrow would just glance off the edge of the knife. And that level of accuracy, BTW, is no big deal. Watch the archers on the program "Impossible Shots" and that will become obvious.

    I thought the one extra-long-range outdoor sequence was pretty impressive, BTW. Even if the tripods were set up to be easy to knock over. You still have to hit them in the first place, and it took a fair poundage to send the shafts that far downrange, as well.
    chelloveck and Motomom34 like this.
  4. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    He is a good trick shooter. And when you film every shot, you will get lucky from time to time. There is another video debunking lars. His skill with a very light poundage bow is impressive, but his claims, sources, and "proofs" are complete nonsense.
    I can and have hand caught arrows, it is NOT hard to do. We did it as kids (mom would not have approved, had she known, but I had to patch the hole in the roof as well, due to trying to catch falling arrows).
    Splitting is another story. Aluminum arrows either stack or break. The knoc breaks, and up to 6-8" of shaft is shoved together, done it many times. If a point hits a shaft, it will usually snap where the point hits. I've broken way too many wooden cedar shafts, and only a straight grained shaft COULD be split endwise. (Assuming the ossolation of an arrow in flight allowed it to strike at the right time anyhow).
    20 lbs enough for a deer? That's a real big maybe. If it were close like a deadfall trap perhaps but I remember 25 pound bows from physical education in school that had an arc like a rainbow at 20 yards. I brought my hunting bow to class and tested out of that subject. Using a 45 pound fiberglass straight longbow and cedar shafts I broke one wood arrow with another wood arrow, and was no longer required to participate in an entry level archery class. At a range of only 20 yards what deer hunter could miss? ( my proud father gifted me with Indian stalker compound bow I still used to this day. I was 15.)
    Lars is a talented trickshooter who belongs in carnival. He is not a war Archer.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
    chelloveck likes this.
  5. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I eat vegetables. My friends are not vegetables.

    Good points all.

    The use of a 20-lb. bow for deer is not recommended--but often a 20-lb (ish) bow is what you wind up with when you make an expedient survival bow. And even in the reference I'm drawing on, that light a bow requires a close stalk--like 25 feet or so--to be sure of downing the deer.

    Which means you have to be a ace stalker to take a deer with sissy-bow. So, like any survival skill, learn it before you need it.

    There's no telling how many takes were required to get Lars' perfect shots--but Jackie Chan sometimes has to do eighty takes to get one fight scene gag to come out right. And no one considers him less than a expert martial artist.

    No one is War Archer until they have gone to war and killed their enemies. Until that day, it's all training and/or make-believe.

    I would really hate to have Lars, serving on the other side, stand up from behind a bush at twenty feet with a big handful of pointy surprise while my pistol was in it's holster, my rifle was pointed at the ground, and my trigger-finger was three knuckles deep testing the consistency of my nasal mucus.

    I'm pretty sure he would be more than enough of a War Archer to handle me.

    Now, sissy-boy that I am, I'd do the arrow catch on a blunt arrow from 26 feet, fired from a 35# bow--if it was a flu-flu arrow that was designed to decelerate sharply after 25 feet or so. The "air-brakes" would make the catch a lot easier and safer.

    Maybe that's what Lars did. If so, he's a smart guy.

    Show me anyone that will try to catch a four-bladed broad-head arrow fired from a 45# bow at say, 25 feet, and I'll show you a flat-out lunatic with a high probability of having a very short life. Or very high doctor bills at the very least.

    But then, that's show-biz! There's certainly no lack of lunatics in that occupation.
    chelloveck likes this.
  6. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I have seen his videos many times. Watch closely when he does that arrow catch. His assistant does not aim at him, but at the target near him. Catching that shaft as it passes is no more difficult than snagging a fly ball.
    There's a group of Russian archers that are much more accurate when it comes to war speed shooting. If I recall correctly witchdoctor and I both have some experience at war speed shooting. I no longer use a back quiver, but I still draw and shoot with the same motion. ( single shots these days, but single shots are all that I usually need.)
    Stealth matters more than the weapon, but with a weapon that light in force department, you better be close enough to stab the deer, and your razor heads better be well honed.
    A bent sapling and a bootlace will provide enough force to kill a deer. ( I know I've done it) it's the ARROWS it take work to craft.
    chelloveck and Witch Doctor 01 like this.
  7. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    The back quiver as we know it was basically invented for Errol Flynn for robin hood. You can look up Ares Tactical or Schola Gladitoria (?) on Youtube debunking his shooting.
  8. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    the back quiver for Europeans is Hollywood deal, but it was used over the rest of the world. I can cite hundreds of examples with pictures.
    chelloveck likes this.
  9. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey++

    Even then, most of the ones that I have seen were hung low, and pulled from the rib area, and not over the shoulder.
  10. lonewolf88

    lonewolf88 Monkey

    20-35 pounds BARELY has any penetration as far as hunting large game or combat archery. 20-35 pounds is a childs bow, a trainer. I do believe this guy knows what hes talking about.

    Ares Tactical Solutions also has a video of a live demo that shows how little penetration a childs bow has. Cant find it currently. will look asap.
  11. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  12. lonewolf88

    lonewolf88 Monkey

    Im not a historian, but I believe the true, traditional recurves aka shortbows or horsebows were between 40-60 pounds of draw weight. Judging from a rough estimate of balanced power and speed. The main reason for the bow was ranged defense and war. So I highly doubt the shortbows were less than 40 pounds.
  13. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    kellory likes this.
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

  15. lonewolf88

    lonewolf88 Monkey

    Shes not only good, shes very attractive. :)
    chelloveck likes this.
  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    kellory likes this.
  17. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

  18. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    1456599637782967500056. 1456599637782967500056. 14565996817731783227299. 14566000086781280720878. quivers could be worn on straps, on belts, or even ground spiked for easy access from a static defense position. 14566002389161990199272. 1456600553740149688051. various grips. And note, another shoulder carry 1456600599877-1505339363. bow cases like this were more common on horseback for easy carry and access. Slung from saddle rings. 1456600758282-1349916544. 1456600781153-542616206.

    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    chelloveck likes this.
  19. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Only release method not shown is the apache release...
    chelloveck likes this.
  20. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    i would take this guy much more seriously than Lars.

    this guy is scary good.
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