The Assasination of Benazir Bhutto

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by andrew414, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. andrew414

    andrew414 Howdy.

    I don't want to put my tinfoil hat on. I won't do it. But I'm putting this in F&L because I'd like to keep it inside the board.

    Normally, I post about "how should I store this" or "what caliber" or "Ron Paul, etc." This is different.

    In this thread: let's throw some conjecture out there. What does this mean to us. The media are ramming Pakistan's nukes down the public's throats. The president and every other person along his line identically blame terrorists before the first piece of real data is examined. Sound familiar.

    The punchline: I think this is the start of a horrible chain reaction that ends with a nuke set off on American soil. This will suspend the election and dramatically change the terms on which we identify ourselves as a free people.

    There, I said it. I'm going to go eat some Mexican food now.


  2. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    What exactly would you call someone who assasinates for former PM, blows himself and 170 others to bits with body bombs. I don't think its a tremendous leap to call that person a terrorist intent on affecting a particular political outcome.
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Yea, terrorist no doubt but they were blaming our particular favorite terrorists ...that is the difference that takes the leap.
  4. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Well according to an e-mail that was to be released in case her death she puts the blame squarely on musharraf administration specificly those around him. It has also been said that her spouse has called to make sure the email has been released.
    I tend to put a lot of weight on the victim's opinion since she literaly is right in the thick of it.

    Personally I think the terrorists have the most to gain from her death. They don't like musharraf to begin with and they hate her for not having a penis. Who knows maybe the terrorists have a secret gay fetish for male politicians. Anyways, by offing her they get pakistanis to hate musharraf even more. Kind of like getting two birds with one stone. But if Bhutto herself thinks it's the musharraf administration......
  5. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    From what I have read today, several groups have claimed responsibility - a dubious honor to be sure. Nonetheless, OBL is not the only face of terrorism. Her gender was certainly a thorn in the side of the fundamental Islamics. Have we already forgotten what it is like to be attacked simply because we are seen as infidels?
  6. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    From Nov, 7th.

    Somebody once stated that nothing political ever happens by accident. Whoever did this, lone bomber or dark group hiding in the shadows, the US will pounce on the chance to react.

    IMHO, the American Citizens are the biggest victims of the WoT. We get spanked everytime some nut blows something up.

  7. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    What I found particularly disgusting today was to hear all of the candidates recount how they had been in contact with Musharraf following the assassination to discuss US/Pakistani relations. Such a display of opportunism is contemptible
  8. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Everyone thinks this will turn into a civil war that waill spill out of the bottle and create a nuclear meltdown. We seem to forget Mushareff's penchant for clamping down on the enemy and his own people to get the desired response. He will do it again here, if this starts getting out of control, he will lock it down and kille everyone and anyone he thinks he needs to, to get this under control.
  9. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Agreed. Reminds me of a similar opportunism seen a few years ago in the passing of the Patriot Act . Reprehensible. taser1

    We need to break free of this formula:
    status quo---> Problem--->Knee-Jerk Overreaction=Erosion of my rights in the name of Security.

    Ask a computer programmer if total security exists.
  10. hartage

    hartage Monkey+++

    Both sides east/west, muslim/nonmuslim just slipped a little more as we have with the partriot act and them radicals getting stronger. Each side looses a bit more rights, a bit more freedom as we inch ever so closer to an us vs them confrontation.

    Sad part is we as the western countries are just as guilty as they are in this march towards conflict.
  11. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++

    Here's my not so humble take. They can't agree on what killed her, or even whether she was shot. They buried her in record time, so we'll likely never know. Someone with power is going to ludicrous lengths to cover something up. As only Bhutto's people or Musharraf's people would have the ability to cover up the cause of her death, I think Al Qaeda can be reasonably ruled out.

    The fact that our government is pointing at Al Qaeda suggests, in my mind, that they're trying to protect
    Musharraf. They're probably right to do so, since he's still the closest thing we have to a friend in all this. But it certainly reeks of the possibility that our government was involved.

    As I see it, if we or
    Musharraf were behind the assassination, that's the best possible case for near term stability. It would mean that Musharraf knew it was coming, and Al Qaeda didn't. That, in turn, would mean that Al Qaeda probably doesn't already have a plan in place to take advantage of it.

    The bottom line is, while I was worried yesterday, today's cover ups have convinced me that not much is going to change because of this.

    If I'm wrong, and this situation leads to bombs going off here, we'll deal with that when it comes.
    And if the election is canceled...
    When 8:00 pm on November 4th comes around, if I haven't voted, I'll already be dead. Take that as you will.
  12. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Islamic religious laws require burial within 24 hours.

    I don't see that the U.S. had anything to gain and much to lose by Bhutto's death. Mushareff on the other hand had everything to gain and nothing to lose.
  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    The thing I can't shake is that many times the splinters that stick up against the grain get sanded off to ensure a smooth surface. Freedom fighters with a message of truth tend to get snuffed out more often. Mushareff, hardly has freedom for his people on his mind in anything done the past 2 years.

    Al Queda? Or is that everytime we see people running in the streets with AKs and fire it's Al Queda. Those folks are the ones pulling off hi tech terror... Nuclear materials and such.... Not petty street bombs.

    You can't have Al Queda both ways. I think we see boogiemen in lots of places and its a neat marketing /PR package too call them all Al Queda.

    One mans Rebel is another man's Freedom Fighter. It just depends on who is doing the reporting. Putin just publically supported the Lakota. So if the enemy of my enemy is my friend rule still applies...

    I think we need to keep all of this in the current context of Oil, Dollars, and Globalism. Then these things tend to make sense. Maybe if we lose our guns and they kill Dr Paul a few more will see the patterns.
  14. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Monkey+++

    Breaking News!!

    Local nuze just reported that she wasn't killed by bullets or shrapnel. Cause of death was the shockwave from the blast caused her to hit her head.

    I figger that by Wed there will be a couple more reasons. Muddy up the water more.

    She was a tool of the TOP (tribe), Oxford educated (think Clinton and big wigs here...) Was friendly with the trouble making small state to the west, and in the middle of all the crap over there.

    As Sniper said, it was obvious she was toast.
  15. Evenglischatiest

    Evenglischatiest Monkey+++

    I did not know that. Thanks. I still see an obvious coverup, though.

    What we had to gain was Mushareff staying in power. Bhutto didn't have the support of the military. If she'd won the election, it's unlikely she could have kept the country together. Good or bad, Mushareff is about the only thing standing between muslim hard liners, and Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Interesting. I don't see Mushareff as doing much of anything. Cept for refusing to give up his Uniform and Declaring Martial Law. Is Martial law desirable? Was he elected or was it a Coup?
  17. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The only thing I know with any certainty is that we will never know exactly what happened and who were the players.We will be lead to believe whatever is the most politically expedient
  18. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I actually heard them say that it wasn't the bullets OR the shockwave, that she cracked her skull trying to duck inside the sunroof.

    What a joke.
  19. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    He resigned his commission a week or two back, he took office in a coup that followed fair elections. Still maintains the presidency. As of today, he had not postponed the elections (Jan) but very well may if things don't settle down. That said, nothing is cast in stone yet, and the military is still loyal to him. Methinks if things don't settle down pretty soon, he will be needing to take a firmer hand and the mess will get messier. We need him, like it or not, to control the nuclear option. If he is replaced by a weak coalition, chances are greater that the bomb will get away. I don't care for that scenario, no matter how much I'd like to see him off. A strong, west leaning coalition is appealing, but the way loyalties shift left, right, and center in the mid east, there is just no way to predict an outcome. Cross you fingers, we may well get out of Iraq and into Pak. I have little faith in shifting loyalties that are money dependent.

    The ugly part is that operations like Al Khaida are landless, therefore have no loyalty to a garden, just want to exploit others.

    Sickening. If I drank like I used to, I think I'd crawl into a fifth of Scotch and stay there. [booze][booze]
  20. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Funny. I've found myself hitting it a bit harder lately and trying to stay away from both the News and the Monkey. The psyche can only digest so much bad news before it starts to crack. Mine started to.

    Just having a few Coors tonight before bed.
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