I have been a member for a couple of years but haven't posted that often. I have been a prepper for almost thirty years. You would think I would be ready by now, eh? But I am not. For years the money went for other things that came first like kids and getting rid of all of our debt. The first thing I really did to prepare was to move my family well away from Chicago where I worked. I ended up commuting 70+ miles one way every day just so my kids were, well, 'safer', than they would have been living on Chicago's north side. We moved to a very rural, very small agbiz town of about 800 residents. To show you how rural we are, I remember how excited the kids were when the first McDonald's opened for business in a town twenty-one miles away. There was a lot more excitemnent a couple years later when that same town put in their first traffic light and we joined with all of our neighbors who drove over there just because we wanted to say that we had actually been stopped by the red light. Oh well, back to the post. I am a retired LEO and also a retired Infantry soldier so I have some pretty strong feelings about firearms. They have to work, they have to be able to take a beating and they have to be repairable at my level when something goes wrong. I also believe that to have guns in a multiple calibers is stupid because I really don't have the kind of money that would be needed to stock up more than a couple of calibers. So, I decided I would keep my calibers to .22lr, 9mm, 5.56mm and 12 gauge. I don't care what anyone says, I have first hand experience in real firefights and I know what has worked for me. I am not saying they are the be all end all choice because they are not. But they are all affordable and they all work. Over the years, I have owned a LOT of firearms. I was always the first on my block to have whatever just came out and truthfully, I still have to fight that urge every day. But, I was also smart enough and experienced enough to know that KISS or keep is simple stupid has to be one on the primary rules along with "if it works, don't fix it" I decided I really like AR15s. I like them as a truck gun and I like them as a varmiter or long range gun. Now to me, long range is actually anything over 250 yards because I cannot imagine how or why I would need to shoot something any further away then that. But I can and for that purpose I have a mid-length HBAR Palmetto State Armory with bipod and Nikon M223 scope that I assembled from a kit. Using M855 surplus ammo, I tapped a 'yote two weeks ago at a measured 470 meters so I pretty confident that I can hit anything out to 500 meters with my first shot. My M4gery truck gun is a Smith M&P15A that I replaced the butt stock and handgrip with Magpul MOE (in black)and an Ergo pistol grip. It has taken a beating over the years and I have detailed stripped it several times for cleaning and replaced some of the springs just to be safe but other than that, it just works every single time. My last rifle is a .22lr and for years it was a Ruger 10/22 but then I fired a buddy's M&P 15-22 and fell in love. With a rimfire 3x9 scope (and no wind) I can shoot a $.25 piece hole in a aper target at 100 meters and do it with a 25 round magazine. That is so way cool. I also have Smith and Wesson M&P 22 pistol that is new to me but is turning out to be a great buy. It only came with one magazine so I had to pick up some more but wow! can it shoot. And the barrel is factory threaded! Now I need to move to a State that allows suppressors. I have an old Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer 12 gauge. I have a rifled 18 inch barrel and a modified choke 24 inch barrel for upland game. Old shotgun for an old shooter. Totally reliable, bottom ejecting and easy to repair if needed. I left my first love, the 1911 several years ago when I took a tactical pistol course and shot a Glock 19 about 800 times in a 24 hour course. Love 'em or hate 'em, Glocks work, they have very few parts, a huge after market support and they will fire every single time. I clean my 19 only on the odd years so it's not due again for another six months. Meanwhile, I am at my local range every Monday morning banging away with it. I think a good sized pistoil is really nevessary but i also think you should have a gun that is easily concealable either as backup or as a primary depending on the situation. For that reason I have a Kahr PM9 that i carry every day. (I have an Illinois concealed carry permit as a retired LEO) Because I live in Illinois, it is incredibnly important that my firearm never be noticed and the Kahr does that real well. Within ten meters, using Gold Dots, I would trust my life to my little Kahr. Just lately, I decided I wanted to carry a long gun in the car when we are traveling and I picked up a Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm that accepts Glock 17 magazines. They work in my G19 also so that's a plus and I now have the Kel Tec and 10 magazines in a lap top bag and no one ever suspects what i have when we check into a motel. So, that's my idea of what perfect is. Not looking for a flame war, just offering an opinion.
While I have a large array of firearms, I have managed to stay within a set of personal guidelines with the exception of some of my treasured pieces. .22LR, 9mm, .45ACP, 5.56mm, 7.62mm, and 12ga. These are the primary calibers of firearms concidered to be for defensive and food gathering use. Like I said, I have stuff in other calibers too.... such as .375 H&H Mag., .300 Win Mag, .50 Beowulf, .44 Mag, .357 Mag., 28ga., 10ga., 10mm, etc. but I dont generally keep large quantities of ammo or spare parts/specific tools for those firearms like I do my primary defense weapons. My primary choices are my Ruger 77/22, Mossberg 590, AR-15 Carbine (Stag arms upper, Bushmaster lower, RRA NM trigger, ACE stock), CZ550 Varmint .308 w/ Leupold VXIII, and my Dan Wesson Valor.
Bud, You need a .308 battle rifle, because when shot at people have a strange habit of hiding behind stuff, and the .308 turns cover into concealment.
Hmmmmmm............................ I have actually shot people with 7.62mm. You're right, it works real good. I have also shot people with 5.56mm and you know what? Same result! Not to be smarmy, but here's me about 40 years and 100 pounds ago. I am actually shooting at people with 7.62mm: Like I said in the OP, I actually have a LOT of experience. If I had to shoot something more than 300 meters away, I will probably run and hide first.
Your conclusions seem to be from practical experience. So in "My opinion" you should stay with what you know.... although, as others have, and will point out, Times, Locations, and Dispositions, can change, and it might not be such a bad idea to consider a .308, for it's strengths, just because..... ...... YMMV....
Bud I can't find fault with your choices. I've used them all, and it's the shooter, not the gun that counts. I'd prefer a bit more penetration for that sort of work, but everything you listed will work very well. jim
I found in the last few years my choices have become the product of having something that will work all the time and not just sometimes when it needed . I keep the following ammo choices on hand now -22.lr pratice ammo for both rifle and pistol pratice uppers that i have -177.cal pellet rifle ammo for pratice -410.ga shotgun ammo for back up gun a six shot S&W model 410 cal Governer model handgun -38.special for back 5-shot S&W model 49 hamerless handgun call me old fashion but years of carrying that little revolver as a backup handgun in the line of duty it has served me well and it has not failed me yet in that area -9mm for main go to SHTF type handgun a glock model 34.that been reworked more to my specs -5.56.mm rifle cal for my main go to SHTF rifle As far as a hunting cal i have a Ruger n1 in 308 cal for hunting and a S&W custom reworked 44.magnum as my basic field handgun for use as need
As claymores, C4, indirect fire and tact air etc aren't available, I can't stay with what I know... My opinion, any caliber issued since WWII works and any lesson learned in war applies. Some factors stay constant, combat load or how much weight a person can carry is a good example. One of the deliverables of the 5,56/7.62 x 39 or "assault" rounds was the ability of soldiers to carry more ammunition or adds hours until a re-supply is required. Re-supply was the reason the unstoppable Nazi Blitzkrieg stopped. If I was in a "situation" as an ex-11B4, I would already know what weapons my team had and how much ammunition. The situation would dictate how I would "apply" them. The key is team; if I was alone; hopefully, you'd never know I was in your AO. Although similar in intent, regular and irregular small unit tactics are different.
There is so much that depends on the scenario. For holing up I'd prefer to have my '06, 12 gauge pump with buck and slug, Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 and my .40 Baby Eagle. I have a Russian made SKS that would be handy for throwing lead around in case I was rushed by some rampaging lackys, quislings or marauders. I hope I never have to defend my home, but if I did that seems to fit the bill for me. If I had to take an extended 'vacation' to avoid certain people, my purpose would be to avoid all bipeds. That being the case I would have to think weight and other things like how many rounds can I carry and for what. I would take my M6 Scout and .22 ammo from cb's to stingers as well as .410 3" buck, slug and bird shot. The plan is to feed my face as efficiently as possible without drawing unwanted attention. I'd probably avoid any gun fire as much as possible. I'd take my .40 along too incase I got surprized at close quarters.
Ive downsized over the years to this---->subsonic 22lr:Hunting critters,the kids can shoot till their little fingers get sore, due to the price,nobody wants to be shot no matter the size of the bullet,and seemingly endless supply of bulk if all my other rounds dry up. 9 mill: What I use in my personal carry. Ive used a Glock 19 for most of my carreer and it just feels right.Cheap ammo.Easy to find. 5.56: Ovious reasons.My bug out,mobile,and working round for the past 14 yrs. .308:My fave round of them all,but plays more of a defensive role at the homestead or occasional large game hunting.Expensive and weighs more so id be more likely to loan my personal .308 rifle to a trusted friend than carry it myself if I had to get mobile and leave point A for B. I used to be a gun hoarder like most survivalists are,but reluctantly sold almost all of my collection a few months ago in one bulk sell.Now im lighter and meaner.I like the fact that my wife and I can now carry everything on our own if we had to and not leave any weapons behind. Wouldnt be easy,,but possible.Well the dog might have to carry something.
Everyone today seams to over look the base for all shooting, "it must feel right in your hand and an extension of you". " "kiss" and practice". Use and store for your needs. OP SEC.
I like your setup and practical approach to what you want to keep. If I had more "spare" money, I'd be a happy hoarder buying guns just because the Axiom of Redundant Redundancy redundantly states you must have duplicates or better. Training is another item everyone should consider. My wife doesn't know it yet, but she's going to be sent off for a two- or four-day handgun and/or rifle course - which is really for selfish reasons: It will give me peace of mind knowing she knows and has practiced firearms handling, plus I'll get to take a class too.
I downsized as well. First of all .22 rimfire is the MOST important rifle caliber a survivalist can own. Somewhere on these boards I posted penetration results shooting a deer skull with just a cheap Remington thunderbolt. In Michigan where I live there is no game here that cant be taken cleanly with one well placed .22 round. We have three rifles in .22 with my Marlin 981t being the hunting rifle. Scoped with a Redfield revolution this rifle is deadly accurate out to 100 yards printing tiny 1.5 to 2 inch groups. Its greatest asset is that it has a tubular magazine and will shoot shorts, longs and any long rifle . Small adjustments to the scope have to be made when shooting shorts and longs but I have the number of clicks written down. My Ruger 10-22 is a back up defense rifle. I have six 30 round magazines for that and 2,000 rounds of CCI mini mags in 40 grain solid bullets. This rifle is kept clean and ready for that one purpose. The third is an old Remington nylon 66. It works great. I have 14,000 various rounds of .22 ammo. I also like the 5.56/.223 . I have Stag AR-15 with all magpul furniture and like your Smith mine goes bang EVERY TIME. I have it topped off with Burris 3-x 332 which works with or without batteries. Out to 200 yards Im very proficient with it. I keep a couple thousand rounds for it and am still adding. I have seven Magpul 30 round mags and am still adding. This is my number one defense rifle. I like the 30-06 for power. I have 4 of them now and just over 600 rounds in 150 grain and 180 grain. Three Remingtons (one older 740 and two 7400 ) I have 22 TEN round mags for them. They are back up defense rifles. My best 30-06 is the new TIKKA Varmit 26 inch barrel bolt action. Redfield scope 3 by 9 Chrome vandium barrel. I have some special rounds for that one. It will reach out there to 1000 yards but I am only dialed in at 300. For me Ill never need more range then that. We have 2 Ruger P-89 9-MM Hand guns with around 500 rounds. My Shotgun is a Remington 870 in 20 gauge. I have about 400 rounds for that. We have one odd gun which is an older Remington 1187 in 28 gauge. I sold a win. 32 special, .410, 30-40 Krag, 35 Marlin, and a an old 6.5 Norma Jap rifle. I dont have any more odd calibers. Here in Michigan its 30-30, 30-06 and .223 as far as the most common calibers. 12 or 20 gauge are every where and .22 goes without saying. All our ammo is kept stored in a cool dry place in Military ammo cans with desicants . I feel that your choices are a lot like mine. Practical and common calibers will be much easier to scavenge if things go bad. KF
I have chose to go with the Stag Ar-15 5.56 , Moss 590 12ga, G-21 45ACp, Springfield 1911 45Acp, G-26 9mm back-up, a Charter 38spl and a S&W 686 357mag, I have 2 Ruger 10/22. and my old Mod 94 Winchester 30/30. I Keep extra parts and a tool kit for the above and a stock of ammo. Alot of people over look the lever action riffles for SHTF guns but if you look at the they have been time test and are tough as nails. I do have some others but they are just toys I shoot to burn some range time and them use them for trade. I tell you guys I would like to test one of the 6.8 SPC from all the talk they are a good choice I prob wouldn't odd one to my private stock because of obtaining ammo in a SHTF but would still like to run some rounds. Plus I would like to have one of those that Bud was swinging on out the chopper door Nice
+1 on lever guns. IMO, They will be less likely to be looked for by the PTB after everything else is lost in a boat accident. I'm particularly fond of a Savage 99 in .308 Win and a Marlin 1894C in .357 mag/38 Spc
IF I owned guns ever again, I'd probably make sure that i had: OPSEC, Opsec, a couple of OPSEC and OpSeC to feed them. and if I ever hit the lotto .. erm. Get Some
Oh what I wanted to say is that would be my wish list if I had the money to buy my choice of guns. After crackhead Johnny stole mine while I was out of town I have never had the money to replace them. This economy is a killer!!!
Prior to the horrible pontoon boating accident: Basic 4 Ruger 10/22 1911A1 .45 acp Mossberg 500 12 gauge M14 .308/7.62x51 NATO or (MY fun guns) Marlin 22LR bolt Ruger single six 22LR / 22 Mag convertible Ruger blackhawk .45 LC / .45 ACP convertible Marlin .45Long colt with octagon barrel Marlin 45/70 cowboy Double barrel 12 gauge Fox with shortened barrel and express sights and sling added. Best woods loafing duo: Ruger GSR in .308 Ruger Blackhawk or single six (as mood dictates.) Of course YMMV< JMHO Of course since the pontoon boating accident last fall on the way accross the lake moving my gun safe, I'm actually down to an old red ryder BB gun. BUT someday I will win the lottery and will buy all of the above and probably a few more.
