The Beast Revelation

Discussion in 'Faith and Religion' started by michae1, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. michae1

    michae1 Monkey+

    The Beast Revelation
    This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

    The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

    The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

    This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

    Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

    Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

    Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

    Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
    It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

    In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

    Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

    Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
    Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.

    Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

    The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similtude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

    May God bless all who read this letter.

    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  2. michae1

    michae1 Monkey+

    Sorry folks for the length of the preceding post. They all get smaller after this one. This site seemed to me to be this threads perfect home. I hope everyone likes it. Michae1
  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Thank you for the contribution to the forum. A couple of questions. The post is in the first person, did you write it or is it copied from another source? Also what supporting references do you credit aside from your own personal interpretation of scriptures?
    I'm not trying to challenge you, I'm just curious. I have never heard these conclusions and interpretations before and am curious as to how they are arrived at. My first impression is that the conclusions drawn are highly speculative and take quite a stretch of the imagination and very creative interpretation of scripture to arrive at.
  4. michae1

    michae1 Monkey+

    Yes, I wrote this article. No plagiarism problems here. Not too many people hold my views on this subject. Also, since my views are relatively fresh and new, as you would expect, there are not too many supporting references. It is that way with any subject when someone comes to a different conclusion, you would not expect to find too many backing sources.
    I know that my letter is new and it requires alot of thought, but if you investigate all of my findings, you will be able to corroborate them. The main thing is that it requires a little different way of looking at the same information in scripture. I don't change the scripture, I just change how it is interpreted. Every generation has interpreted the Bible how they thought it best fit their circumstances. We all should know that there is only one correct answer. I'm saying that mine is the correct interpretation. Although, I'm not asking for everyone to just change everything they have previously thought to be correct. I am only asking for those Christians to consider what I have written as a viable alternative to the verses in question. Michae1
  5. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Revelation is a very cloudy ambiguous crystal ball

    On this point I tend to agree. My own view is that the "Revelation of St John The Divine" was pitched at people, places and events closer to his own time when the Kingdom of God was believed to be imminent. Much of the imagery is ambiguously indirect told in the style that nursery rhymes once were, to relate things indirectly in code that which could not be safely conveyed directly for fear of persecution. It is difficult to sort out that which should be read literally from that which should be read figuratively as metaphor.

    It seems a fruitless exercise in trying to do Nostradamus like interpretations of predictions of the book of Revelation from that which was written in one particular historical and cultural context and then massage the meaning of the text to fit current historical and cultural contexts: Though doing so undoubtedly sells books (and makes a pretty penny for the authors) to those of the faithful who are fearful of being left behind. : S

    There have been several antichrists touted over the millenia since the Bible's creation, including Napoleon, Hitler and several others. Apparently HRH Prince Charles is one of the current contenders for the antichrist laureate, but why would Prince Chuck, a dotty Anglican divorcee who talks to his vegetables warrant such a job as master adversary of the universe against God? God only knows : O

    Antichrist Identified From 666 and Revelation 13?
    Witch Doctor 01 and tulianr like this.
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Interesting. I will take a closer look when I have time. I just finished a book, and I'm not endorsing the conclusions I just found it interesting also, "The Islamic Anti-Christ". Very thought provoking and a new way of looking at prophetic scriptures.
  7. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    The article contains one fatal flaw. Recognition of Israel and honoring of all Palestinian agreements cannot happen because the original agreement as outlined in the McMahon-Hussein Correspondence would require that there be no Israeli state occupying any of the land within it's current boundaries. The Palestinian/Israeli conflict doesn't simply stem from post 1947 issues. It in large part is the result of the Allies stabbing the Arabs in the back after aiding the allied cause and overthrowing the Ottoman empire.
  8. cdnboy66

    cdnboy66 Monkey++

    Is the flag of Wales not a Dragon, therfore "he spake as a Dragon" would

    just an observation, I have no dog in this fight.
    It will be as The Lord wills it to be. I have but to hold fast
  9. oth47

    oth47 Monkey+

    In my reading of Revelation,it seems obvious,to me, that John talked in riddles because he didn't understand all he was seeing.If the recipient of the Revelation didn't understand it,who are we as mere humans,2000 years or so from walking and talking with God in human form,to understand it? This is not a put-down to anybody,just my interpretation.
    tulianr likes this.
  10. cdnboy66

    cdnboy66 Monkey++

    I agree, but I also think we need to continue to try, as only in the seeking of wisdom can God open our eyes and grant understanding.

    There is much that is scriptural and also a mystery as yet to be understood, but revelation comes to those who seek wisdom.

    I think a lot of what what written in Revelations is understandable, from a historical reference, Got wrote was "is" and we can only understand according to our limited ability to comprehend based on a timeline.

    Even the Apostles were often fluxomed by what Jesus told them
  11. michae1

    michae1 Monkey+

    Does anyone agree with my conclusions?
  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    After two years?
    chelloveck likes this.
  13. michae1

    michae1 Monkey+

    Yes, especially after two years. The situation is getting much easier to see by the day. The people haven't changed. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take for the rest of Christians to notice. Is that the answer you expected to hear?
  14. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I found your interpretation very well studied, in fact you could be correct..... And like a good Christian I am not going to worry about who the beast is or when he is coming. For The Lord is my shepherd and he asked me not to worry but to stay in faith. Today there are many beasts and mountains of Anti Christs. Satan has expanded his dominion all over the world. I have to deal with beasts like George Bush and Bill Clinton . I have no time to worry about the middle east. God is in control.
    D2wing likes this.
  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    No...not this unrepentant skeptic. Not then, and not now.

    You have obviously put considerable effort into your research, and it is possibly disappointing that no one has shown much notice of your efforts. However, I suspect that long after you and I are gone, there will be someone like you who'll try and make head from tail of that book with not much greater success or recognition.

    The Revelation of John of Patmos was a brain bender for those who were around, closer to the time that it was written, and who may have been privy to the secrets of the allegorical code embedded in the book's text. The book very nearly didn't make it into the canon, and had that have been the outcome in the early days of the church, it may well have been relegated to the dusty and uncommonly referred to, and much less authoritative collection of the Apocrypha. Had that been the case...I doubt that there'd be much mark of the beast speculating, though I guess rapturous fiction would probably not have been left Behind.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    tulianr likes this.
  16. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey+

    Many of the prophesy's in the Bible cannot be correctly interpreted until the events happen. It says that Anti Christ will be revealed. Well many men have been good examples of what antichrist will be like. Prototypes perhaps. I do not think that revelation has come. I don't think it is very useful to try to predict events of the times. It is more important to recognize what is happening as it happens. We have seen several stunning turns of events lately. Particularly that our government for some time has ignored the threat from Islam and concentrating on slandering Christians and trying to paint us as terrorists. We are in the position of the Jews in Germany before the Nazi's attained power. Those that attack Christians and slander Christians like liberals and militant groups like the Southern Law and Poverty center are the Brown shirts of today.
    Sapper John likes this.
  17. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    WELL STATED, We are surrounded by the beast today. The world order which is secular humanism is centered around money or wealth,oil etc. I see this as the real beast which just needs a leader to be labeled the antichrist. I feel that the United States has been on the wrong side of this for a long time. When we support globalization , when we force others to accept westernization etc. in the name of the U.N. or the world order we are playing right into this dialectic. W e were never really a Christian nation but founded on many Christian PRINCIPLES. Jefferson rewrote the Bible in his own image leaving out the miracles and such. I think many Christians have been fooled into supporting globalization. Ron Paul was right on target about our flawed foreign policy starting with Bush sr.
    D2wing likes this.
  18. D2wing

    D2wing Monkey+

    Yes, it is interesting to me that Bush senior pushed trade agreements and Jr Bush put us under the Patriot Act. One undermined national sovereignty and the other individual sovereignty. Both are one world government supporters. Of course Obama is an extremist but other leaders have been pushing us down the road for a long time. Young people may not be aware but until after WWII, most people lived on small farms and supported themselves. Urbanization was planned to convert people from living off the land to cheap labor for commercialization of America in the 1950's. Beware of when Corps take over family farms and control the food. This is what Obama means by taxing inheritances. Destroying the family farm. I am against Islam, but they do have a point about the corruption of Western civilization. To bad they are even worse.

    Jefferson aside, most of the founders were Christian and all strongly supported religion as essential to Democracy. They even imported Bibles for soldiers as one of the first acts of the federalist's. Read Washington's speeches. Also read the Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn. You are correct, that they decided freedom to practice religion was a major founding principle and did not want a state religion. But also many were Mason's. American was also founded with an influence of secular humanism and the seeds of one world Government and also socialism from the French.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
    Brokor likes this.
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