The Days After

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Let us assume that our worst fears are realized and the system totally collapses, what rebuilds? Or maybe more importantly, what does it rebuild into? We have to recognize that there are pockets of tremendous power, technology, and wealth measured in means beyond what is available to any of us. When a true power-base is established, then the lesser of us all become expendable little ants. I saw this in New Orleans in the wake of Katrina, where the individual's rights and liberty wasn't even considered on the day-board. Brute force was used to quell disturbance, to disarm citizens, to relocate people, and all done under the guise of public welfare.
    When a locale becomes too demanding verse productive, will it simply be eliminated? A forced balance sheet will probably be the first level of decision making, probably based on ISO 9001 and anything, including communities may well be red-tagged. Priorities will have to be based on sound business practice and no longer, will the squeaky wheel get the oil, it will simply be replaced or out-sourced. Transportation routes will probably be reduced to the arteries that are essential to the survival of the power-base, much like the "cold-water drowning reflex", where the body shuts down and all available resources are diverted to the brain and central nervous system. The reconstruction will recognize this and also recognize the non-essential burden of society as a free entity. What happens next?
    Motomom34 likes this.
  2. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Well I suppose it would depend on what prompted the societal collapse in the first place. And of course certain 'catastrophes' can result in other issues too. A pandemic can result in economic/infrastructure collapse, and vice versa.
  3. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Well when little folks (ants) are being treated badly, and rule of law and the law of the land is suspended. All bets are off. Overbearing local lords of their AO will become targets for assassination both from without and within. Chaos will reign for a time no doubt. That is rather simplified, but it will be simple times. Not easy simple, but basic simple. There are no immortals
    oldawg likes this.
  4. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Strictly speaking hypothetically, and the parameters of the situation include monetary collapse and martial law, as well as civil unrest, possibly even natural disasters as well...

    Transportation would be greatly restricted, there will be food shortages, fuel shortages, roadblocks, curfews, police/military patrols, unwarranted searches and seizures, violent uprisings and riots, looting, violent neighborhood battles, burglaries, water and sanitation dilemmas, and with time -sickness and quarantines, possibly evacuations and relocations.

    That's a lot to try to factor into one hypothetical. We could try to focus on one or two, possibly just the most likely. I would say, short of a natural disaster, most of these would come into play to some extent. With a natural disaster, perhaps all or more of the above. It's a very stark situation, and only those folks who got a good look at Katrina in New Orleans will know what to expect. Constitutional law simply doesn't exist -it should...but it doesn't. After the fact, sure, there may be some lawsuits, but folks won't get their property back (guns, etc.) and they won't even know who specifically to blame because the men coming to knock down doors will all be in black and they will be of the "shoot-first" category.

    Most of what *could* happen ought to be broken down into stages based on time. We may use any time table, but I will just throw one out there based on some variables I am familiar with. The reaction time to any emergency should reflect the most critical stages. I would say these stages are 1) the first 24 hours, 2) the first two weeks, 3) the first two months, and 4) a six month to one year window. Now, I am only breaking this down on the fly, so please feel free to modify any of this accordingly to suit your own experience and findings. There will be an overlap between stage #2 and #3, depending on reaction time of the .Gov --this is only an estimate.

    The first two stages deal primarily with reaction, while the second two stages deal primarily with continuity.

    1) The first 24 hours (reactionary)
    Most critical stage. Beyond this point, much of the criteria listed above may become restricted and off limits. Some of the criteria will not be implemented, so this time period may be the most critical so you can move and get things done if needed. This is a window of opportunity, and only in a natural disaster would this stage take on more of a defensive reactionary role. (primary concern: Action)

    2) The first two weeks (reactionary)
    Depending on the severity of the event and the level of government involvement, within the first three days this period will demonstrate the full scope of what has transpired and will take place. We will know what our options are, the level of government involvement, how critical our personal and neighborhood security will be, and we should have a fair assessment of any threats. As this stage develops past the first three days, all criteria will become elevated. Shortages of resources will compound and locally obtained food, water and store merchandise will diminish. After the first three days, security will become a primary concern as society breaks down. The closer we get to two weeks, the worse the situation may become. (primary concern: Risk assessment)

    3) The first two months (continuity)
    It is at this time, after the first two weeks has gone by that we may begin to see what the .Gov establishment have in mind if they have not already taken direct action. Naturally, depending on the severity of the event, the presence of the .Gov may already be well known and curfews could be set up, searches and seizures taking place, virtually anything within the sphere of governmental 'authority' could have been implemented. Typically, I would say riots and uprisings may not always be a concern until after the first two weeks, but this is only a hypothetical assessment, not a prophetic revelation. I base this assessment on resources and .Gov response time (not including disasters) and the average estimated time most people could last before resorting to violence. Most fresh water may be exhausted and communal charity may reach a critical point after two weeks. This is why the stage of weeks 3 to 8 will include the greatest challenge to survival if the event extends into this stage. As we progress, we may see everything from increased military presence to riots, looting and violence, fires and evacuations, to disease. (primary concern: Security)

    4) The 6 month to 1 year window (continuity)
    The time period leading up to 6 months indicates whether or not we have survived and maintained continuity of our family unit as well as our community. It should indicate at this point that we can defend ourselves and provide for ourselves, or suck off the teet of government. If we make it to 6 months, and provided we have not been evacuated and relocated for our own safety (sarcasm), or if we have not bugged out, this stage exhibits the advanced stage of surviving whatever we may be facing and a normalcy depending on how well we have adjusted to the situation. This does not always mean our neighbors all get along and everything is shaping up. But, if we have some breaks, we may begin to form a community again. Some areas will fare better than others; a strong community before the event will prove to remain throughout the event. The greatest risk after the first two months concerns sanitation and disease/infection. (primary concern: Health and community)

    What could take place with .Gov along the way? Maybe forced labor camps, which may also mean confiscations previously and relocations. It's also likely we would see military patrols and all out war as some communities rebel and defend themselves. One thing is for certain, the government will not be there to "help" you -not unless you are disarmed. The current government does not like competition, and in their mind (and too many of the people) they are in control, not YOU.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    I could tear into your post point by point, but in fact agree with very much of what you say as it certainly will apply to high population areas.
    Here is where I veer off from what you have said. RURAL AREAS have not been addressed. They are HIGHLY ARMED, have stockpiles of FOOD and SEEDS and LAND TO GROW FOOD, LIVESTOCK, FUEL reserves, WATER, wells not necessarily dependent upon grid electricity, working sewage disposal, fences, guard dogs, neighbors they know, ...... or as Jap Admiral Yamoto said, "armed hostiles behind every blade of grass".
    All out war in rural areas won't be pretty or ultimately beneficial to an overbearing tyrannical Government. In fact if things go down the toilet the way I think they will, Government may be trying to stave off a resurrection of the French Revolution. No doubt every one of you reading this can think of some of the Elitists who should and will have Wanted Posters ... Dead or Alive placed on them. jmho
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  6. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    This is why I am concerned over the current Ebola out break, Let's say that the CDC's worst case forecast concerning the current West Africa Ebola out break is realized, CDC’s Worst Case Scenario: 1.4 Million Ebola Cases - The Daily Beast Now then, what are the chances that this out break reaches the rest of the world. So far the US has been lucky to say the least, but if the worst case forecast do happen, then the current out break will reach the US and other highly populated nations.

    To even begin to try to keep the out break from spreading any further, what would our PTB, let alone other countries like China, India, or other nations that have far more restrictions on their populations do.

    Transportation, food, energy, and every thing that we all rely on would be greatly affected. Our economy would tank, along with all the finance markets. For this current Ebola out break could very well be a natural disaster, economic collapse, and a government clamp down all wrapped in one. Now then, let's just add the one last major factor regarding this current out break. This Ebola strain mutates and becomes air born, well this may well be TEOTWAWKI.
  7. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Oh, don't "tear into it", that would be awful! [lolol]

    I generalized as much as I could (without going overboard) and made it eminently clear that YOU are responsible for filling in the gaps. My post is only a guideline, it is NOT a prophecy.

    Most of what I posted can be applied to inner cities as well as rural areas. Some criteria will have varying effects, and some people will be affected more than others. Some criteria will not even play a part at all. My guideline is not to be misconstrued as a psychic vision, it's supposed to be a primer to help you build upon it if necessary. If it is NOT necessary, then go about your day and carry on. [winkthumb]

    Not every rural area is the same. To assume as much would be foolish. There is no single absolute here. In fact, in many areas, and I would dare to say more than not, the ONLY significant differences between a rural area and a small town dweller would be the location and how well they know the neighbors. Most folks today DO NOT live with stockpiles of food, nor are they self sufficient and well armed. Most people own some hunting firearms and a small stash of ammunition -that's about it. As for farming, MOST farmers today are sucking off the .Gov teet for seeds, which are GMO, they are NOT heirloom. I think my assessment in this post is more FAIR and HONEST than yours is.

    War in any place won't be pretty. As for your assumptions about rural defense, try to bear in mind location and communication and I will get back to you in a moment...

    It doesn't matter WHERE you are, if you cannot effectively communicate with your neighbors, relatives, friends and fellow patriots -you are ALONE. Your theory on rural defense is therefore critically flawed, because where you see "HIGHLY ARMED" people behind "every blade of grass", I only see sparsely separated yuppies who still go to the grocery store for food and have zero emergency communications in place for the most part. Now, there are always exceptions...there's always that ONE GUY up on the hill who may be better off than most. But, by and large, MOST PEOPLE are not self sufficient, organized nor have effective communications in place in case of a grid down situation. You cannot organize and work together if your closest neighbor is 2 miles down the road pulling weeds out of their garden as the Gestapo come to round you up. And, anybody can own dogs and guns, it's not just folks who live in the rural areas.

    Bottom line -every area has significant advantages and some disadvantages we can factor in. We also do NOT know everything, and most of what we are talking about is HYPOTHETICAL to begin with. It's better not to generalize TOO MUCH, because we tend to miss important facts if we do so.

    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  8. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Okay maybe I have over simplified and over generalized a bit too much, and I will gladly admit I hate the idea of living in town or in any city of any significant size. In the cities I see nothing but drones and sheep who have no clue how easily they will be at the mercy of the Government, the infrastructure which provides ALL their basic needs, and the mass of degenerates who will become wolves and zombies minutes after the collapse. The old country song, "a country boy can survive", comes to mind. Generally I abhor all most all things major population centers are. In the city I mostly would be considered an undesirable non-conformist and shunned, or ignored, or persecuted. Cities are hotbeds of Liberals/Democrats/Socialists/Progressive/Communists/Elitists who have either no understanding of the Constitution, that we are a Republic, not a Democracy, or they are fully aware and are doing everything they can to subvert and make it meaningless in their sphere of influence. The bottom of the barrel of these city dwellers are leeches sucking on the government (local/state/federal) teat, doing nothing positive to improve their lot, and they believe in mob rule. They also almost across the board vote Democrat, which might as well be a vote for Mao/Hitler/or the Devil.
    The cities are lost. No matter what the cause of a collapse, cities will be ground zero of the country tearing itself apart. Of this I am sure! I do not consider this HYPOTHETICAL, or generalizing TOO MUCH. If you do not have a rural location to fall back to and you live in the Major population centers you will most likely die sooner instead of later.
  9. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Oh yeah, man. Many of the cities will become death traps.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    and when it DOES collapse, and you are still there, do NOT come out here, Looking for Salvation, because you will NOT find it.... You will have lost your place in the Survival GenePool, long before, by not heeding, the WARNING Signs, and already having built your Infrastructure for Survival. Those of us who are already here, are NOT really interested in your issues, and will make you "Move ON". by force if necessary.
    tacmotusn likes this.
  11. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    We are in a rural area, and I will say quite a few of our neighbors, while they do garden and hunt, raise meat animals, etc, they don't really bother with 'prepping'. It's something that seems to be beyond their ability to comprehend. I haven't actually talked specifically about prepping with them, but things they've said about other things make it clear I'd be wasting my breath.
    Dogfood likes this.
  12. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    It depends on how quick it happens where we go. We have a camp 80 miles from home in the middle of a bunch of state land and another batch of land 500 miles from home. That land is far from any city.
  13. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    You could do with some editing skills. Was this post aimed at anyone in particular? I am fairly certain it wasn't directed toward me, but how is anybody supposed to tell?

    1. You started your post without capitalization.
    2. You typed your response in a manner which indicates a single person is the focus of your statement. (You keep using "you")
    3. You are telling a board full of survivalists, preppers, ex military and hunters they aren't welcome at your place if they do not live in a remote area of the wild. Is this right?

    I don't think anything you typed adds to this discussion at all. I would just like to clarify that it is important to take the time and edit a post, go over the details as much as possible before hitting the submit button. I am also a hurried poster, so I am not trying to single you out, BT. I have just noticed a few old timers around here not taking the time to add a picture or link, and even explain their point of view logically and completely. It's a little frustrating.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I do not really care what you think....
  15. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    You can't go back. Simpler times are something to look back on and be nostalgic about but we have advanced too far to take a step back. I read a book series that left America divide. The country was literally broken in half. One side was a side run by 5 companies that had a modern feels but people were slaves to the corporations, all actions were monitored and basically a police state. The other half were the rebels but under a leader that had veered off. It was poor living but the spirit of fighting was still alive. Currently we are divided but we have not split apart.

    That is what we are living now. It is becoming clearer everyday. They take two- thee steps forward and we push them back one. They are advancing slowly and steadily but where will we end up? I do not know.

    It is interesting to think what if our country collapsed what would it rebuild into? My high schooler was talking last night about a friend that is thinking of joining the military, he said, "Why, why go join the military and fight for freedom when they (Americans) hate us. Our country is so screwed up, they hate us but I love my country. Why fight and die for a country when most of your people would hate you." Those words disturbed me. I don't know how to respond.

    Many people got out of the cities following 9/11. New England saw many relocating their families to the simpler way of life. Sad but when they got there they started to change rural NE. When I see people who relocated to charming simple NE then start complaining about chainsaws being noise pollution, one realizes that not just cities are infested.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2014
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  16. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I don't think most of the people hate the military, it's just those that do are the ones who can't shut up, and social media makes it really easy these dasys.
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  17. Dogfood

    Dogfood Monkey+++

    I see that too people are so complacent that they can't or won't look at the fact that things can and will go wrong at some point. I think for the most part a person has to come to a pivot point in their own mind to start prepping, If you talk to people not in the mind set they just think you are a bit of a nut.
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    This is the same OLD issue that has plagued Rural areas, FOREVER.... It is an Election Year, here, and the Borough (county) Government is up for ReElection. So as per usual, they make the 250 mile pilgrimage, down here to hold a Public Meeting, to find out what the local Voters, WANT from the Borough Government. So we chat, and of course the Two Millionaire Newbies in the Neighborhood, pipe up with their BIG Wants. One wants 911 Cellphone Service, at his cabin-site. This Yahoo, paid $1.5M for a really nice place, complete with HydroPower, Beach Front, Primary Sewer, and Domestic Water, all on-site. His issue is, that his Cabin-site doesn't have CellPhone Service, because he is to far up the Fjord, (1 mile wide, and 3000' Mountains on both sides) and he is on the water. It isn't the Borough's responsibility to fix his issue, and the local Cellular Outfits have NO intention of spending $250kUS to add a Cellsite, for just 4 customers. He was quite irate, that the rest of his neighbors, understood that when they move to the Alaskan Bush, there are some Services, that they give up, to living out here. Services like, local Law Enforcement, and EMS Services. Like, local Grocery Stores. Like, Roads that connect to somewhere, and yes even Cell Service, in many areas. He has Internet just like I do, (SAT Based IP Service) but doesn't seem to be able to figure out how to make SKYPE work for his PhoneCalls. Oh well.... The other Millionaire wanted the Borough, to build him 1.5 miles of Road, (@ $1.5M/mile) from his cabin-site, to connect with Seal Creek Road, that goes up to the Cannery, and the "Road that Airplanes Land On".... He just can't seem to get it thru his Head, that there isn't a Public Right of Way between his SubDivision, and the end of Seal Creek Road. He also can't understand why his neighbors, are DEAD SET AGAINST, any such land based path, between his Southern Neighbor, (a Fishing Lodge) and our very quiet Neighborhood Road System. We do NOT want all these Utah Yahoo Guests (100's weekly) traipsing up to the Cannery, at all hours of the Day or Night, just to get an IceCream Bar. If they want to come up via Boat, they are welcome, anytime.... Oh well, just normal Alaska Bush Politics.....
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  19. vonslob

    vonslob Monkey++

    I keep on hearing about how cities will be death traps i am not so sure about that. I think generally there is a good chance that will be the case. I also read and hear about how people in rural areas will be all set up. I believe things will iron out on a case by case basis. i know of one person who lives on the edge of the city in the foothills of the Sandia mountains. A dozen or so 30-06's and they could seal off the whole neighborhood. Anyone trying to get into that area would have a hell of a chance getting in. I knew of so many people living in Montrose Colorado (population aprox 10000) that were receiving some kind of government assistance. All throughout rural America people are receiving govt assistance. I think when it happens all bets are off. One of the reasons i belong to this forum is to get as many ideas of what others think is going to happen. When it is all done and said one of us will most likely be absolutely right.
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  20. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    The inner cities will be death traps....lawlessness will rule the day and many will die. The suburbs will be the ground the survivor's extend into for preying on the weak.... and eventually if they do not starve to death.... the will reach the rural areas. What happens in between the "event", and when the chaos reaches your door.... is what we prepare for. IMO
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